Homebrew PCBs

soffee83 wrote:

>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hard to figure a way where people can't cheat easily.
>>    
>>
>active members, to allow for a sort of "student" discount. I don't 
>think most people talking about toner transfers, DIY etch tanks, or 
>GPL-based web projects, are looking at making enough money to 
>constitute a few hundred dollars for their circuit apps. I've seen 
>
>  
>
  I would encourage everyone here to do so.  In the last 8-10 days, I've 
made around $650 from an initial product that I still consider very 
crude, numbers should increase rapidly over the next year as I get 
things going..  Pick something you enjoy, bring your skills up to at 
least a little better than the people already in it, and make a handy 
product.  Might be slow selling or make a wrong decision or two at 
first, but if your items are better people will catch on fast.  Is a 
total PITA to bring a product all the way through to production though, 
while I think it will be worth it long term for me, many might be better 
off with an established employer..  Not for the faint of heart or slow 
learner of new ideas, you have to bring a lot of skills up to date very 
very fast to do everything yourself without taking forever.  One man 
army crap can be exhausting, amazing how much I've had to learn to mail 
things effectively, even though I already knew some from mailing over 
the past 5 years or so.  And that's only one of many 'extra' things I've 
had to come up to speed on.


>I'm sure I'll sound like a cheapskate to someone here, but I think the 
>prices Pete mentioned are plenty, for some of us "eternally non-
>profit" types. Maybe $150 or below, for a full featured app, ideally 
>even $100 or below. I still think there are some critical "commercial" 
>functions they could target, without attacking the board size or 
>number of parts. Even just a limit to double-sided boards would likely 
>
>  
>
  Yep gotta agree with this, there are many things that would cripple it 
for real commercial users that wouldn't affect most hobbiest uses.  Some 
things aren't in there, like off angle rotation commands from the 
command line that are in the standard version.  But very few are limited.


>I also still believe that if the limits,etc. force some people 
>elsewhere, and they remain fairly "non-profit", I can't see any reason 
>why they would return to pay a few hundred later on, and have to re-
>learn whatever the current Eagle is, after growing accustomed to an 
>alternative. Probably not the outcome they have in mind.
>
>  
>
  Well, they know the power.  From the core design Eagle is pretty 
flexible, I haven't run into a real dead end yet.  Most other products 
have very real limitations in one thing they can do or another that 
simply can't be worked around, or have a huge price tag that's way 
beyond Eagle's cost.  Haven't tried the recent mentions thoroughly yet, 
far too many things to do in 2 months to devote the time right now.



>With the "harmless" freeware version, they have the option of jumping 
>right over something they could actually have afforded, which might 
>suit all their needs just the same.
>
>which smaller developers couldn't begin to compete with. Needless to 
>say, it pretty much ruined the market for quite a few younger audio 
>packages.
>
>  
>
  Eagle, despite having some interface gaps, has a huge amount of power 
and flexibilty for climbing its learning curve.  They simply don't owe 
it to others to allow them to compete.  It's just like Walmart, some 
people complain, but the reality is most people don't CARE enough about 
ma and pa's business just being there enough to donate extra money to 
them so they can stay around despite their poorer business model.  
That's as it should be.  If their business isn't useful to people they 
should simply go out and find something to do that IS useful to others.

  I can see this directly, I'm about to totally displace someone already 
in a market, with much greater value for the customer with lower prices 
and superior functionality.  I could price my stuff higher than their 
items, and still allow them to compete, but something like that is 
entirely at my option and I have no reason to do so, I can give added 
value at lower cost to the customer if I choose to and still consider 
the profit margin reasonable.  Convention is coming up and I'm likely to 
make a lot of money that they will be counting on heavily right out from 
under them, as in almost all on the couple of hottest items.  Likely I 
will have people decide to wait for my version instead of buying their's 
of even the things I don't have time to make before the convention..  
That's as it should be, their talent is relatively low and their prices 
are high for what they've put into their products.  I *deserve* the 
money they've been making more than they do, I'll pay my taxes and they 
can collect welfare if they're not smart enough to figure something else 
to do now.  They won't be suffering from my competition as they may see 
it, the fact is they've benefitted from my total slackness for the last 
year or two, I'm simply getting off my behind and being where I should 
be.  Little doubt I'll hear about some whining, but the fact is they 
also displaced others with lesser talent when they came in.  Everyone 
deserves the right to exist as people, but no one really deserves the 
right to make a profit if there are others who are more capable.  The 
audio packages you're speaking of simply weren't very viable in the 
first place if they couldn't still compete even after the big player did 
their thing, or else the market was too small to support more than a 
single player or two at the time anyway.  You can always do better than 
some other guy, but you have to do better, not the same or less.  It 
does present a bit of a challenge to ramp up to compete, but it's simply 
a necessary investment.  A's are for A quality material, not simply for 
some effort as too many of the PC people teach it.  You've got to make 
good stuff that people want more than the other guy's, or find something 
else to make..

Alan