Homebrew PCBs

Hi Stefan

>i only want to mention that there are ways to get around eagles "free" 
>limits if you only
>want it for personal pcbs.
>I tried it for some days unlimited without paying for it.

If you refer to the cracked version of Eagle, then the problem is that
this one generates files that are not readable by the oficial version
anymore - apart from all moral isues and my personal intention that
useing such cracked software is not ok at all.

>me feeling about this is the folowing:
>i would clearly not buy a package like eagle or any other cad for some 100 
>usd (or *10 or *100)
>because this is way too much for me. i can't spend that much on software, i 
>can hardly spend it on hardware.

That's a very symptomatic attitude I mostly see among european people.
It's TOTALY wrong. Why do you spend money on hardware? Simple -
because there is no alternative! Basically that's not fair - period.

I wrote software over the past 20 years. A year ago I started to delve
into developping hardware and I just finished my first comercial
product. It involves a 16 bit CPU, RAM, Flash, Networkcontroller a
CompactFlash etc. etc. That said it's not trivial. Although I had to
teach all this to myself and although there was a steep learning curve
I must say that developing hardware needs LESS time and efforts than
developping software. I wrote many many kind of software over the
years including operating system drivers, database engines, software
develpement tools, ERP kind of software, video processing software
etc. etc. 

What I'm trying to tell is that the times where writing software was
creating good revenues are long over. SW engineers have high saleries
(which the good creative ones also really deserve) and they need
utterly long to develop a complex piece of software and customers
can't imagine what's behind the scense and as such have very high
demands combined with the intention that it's all simple easy and does
not cost money. All those efforts to keep up with this must be payed
and this is calculated into the procuct price. There really is enough
competition around. Just look at schema capture and layout software.
There are TONS of products around and considering the amount of work
needed to make such a packet, prices are remarkably low!

I do agree though that they are high for a privat individual (i.e. a
student) but they are not made for this "market". Haveing a studend
version of a software is of course the manufactures decission and I
figure there are reasons which have their sources in the treatement of
studend versions by students why some of them don't have this option.

>but still i want to use it. for privat purposes, not selling much of great 
>value (maybe to compensate material
>costs and the time if i make something for a (not so good) friend.....).
>but still i never would buy the software... because i can't afford....
>
>so i find a way to use it (not limited which may render it unuseable) 
>without paying...
>
>the advantage for the programming company is the following:
>i use it, i know it, obviously i like it as i use it.
>if i ever have to choose a software package or suggest one i definitely 
>would suggest this one i use.
>if i talk to anybody about the specific software kind i would tell him that 
>i use this particular package.
>so he knows it too. if he has to decide what to buy he has already heard of 
>the package i use.
>
>so maybe at a time there will be a additional buyer of the software (me or 
>not) in the future
>because i now use it without paying....

While this might be, it still also signals others around you that
there is a way to use software (in genral) without paying and that
it's ok to do so which is simply plain wrong leading to limitted
versions and leading to high prices and protective behaviour of the
software manufactures. 

It's really funny. Ok, I created my first product involving hardware -
now, the funny part is that while it contains a lot less software than
other (software only) products I made, NOBODY discusses about the
price just for a second, while a software only product is ALWAYS too
expensive - something must be very wrong in society.

I'm now selling software globally for about 10 years with customers in
almost any country around the globe. The funny thing is that your
attitude (and I don't really intend to offend you personally but refer
to it as a kind of attitude) is most widely spreaded across europe. I
must admit that US customers are much more aware of what it means to
run a business, taking all the risks involved etc. and genrally behave
very differntly here. They are either conviced that a software helps
them solving a problem and hence are ready to pay for it or they just
don't bother to use it et all. Ok, there are (rare) exceptions, but I
really think we europeans (I'm myself one) really have a problem here.
I don't know if this is a left over from socialism or what, it's just
realyl sick in it's nature.

>i think this is pretty much the philosophy of "student version".
>but some companies don't offer student versions. so i have to find another 
>way (and there are other ways....).

Of course there are. You are a talented guy. Create something, sell it
and buy the software you need out of the revenue. IMHO you are much
better than I when it comes to design hardware - again, use that
potential.

>I don't know how the law is in your country and how exactly it is 
>controlled.
>but here i have not heared of any case where PERSONAL useage without paying 
>was legaly prosecuted...

Which again, is totaly totaly wrong, teaching public to behave the
total wrong way. Officials SHOULD prosecute such behaviour to make
people aware that there is NO difference in genral between buying a
bread or a pice of software. Pirating software is just plain and
simple steeling. 

>it may get more "dangerous" in the future.... and for companies it is a big 
>no no....

Dont' know that you tried to say with this statement...

>ok, i hope i wrote this as careful and discrete as possible...

Well, I understood your post as an invitation to others to search the
net for a cracked version of eagle. Again, that's imoral and wrong. I
really urge you to think about all this again. I like to point out
though that I apreciate you as a person and seeing you here on this
list. I just think that with regard to this topic you are really
really wrong.

Markus