Homebrew PCBs

Dave,

My comments are below, mix in text. Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@y...> 
wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> 
wrote:
> > Why is it a wrong statement that HC200 and Gootee paper is not 
all 
> > there is to TT? You don't have to make any changes to it if doing 
> > 0.040 PCBs. And small chenges for 0.060 IAW provided link 
> > www.pulsar.gs
> 
> 
> "all there is " would imply there is no room for improvement.
='all there means that if someone has job for tomorrow and his boss 
has no money for a PCB house and the PCB house has a long lead time 
and it happens to be a weekend and the job has to be done for monday 
at 10:00am, then such a person may rund to Staples and buy HC200, for 
$90, 30 sheets of paper by Gootee and be done with the PCB in an hour 
because it was his first time. Otherwise he might be done with the 
PCB in much less time.

> 
> #1) not all people on this list live where they can buy these parts

=True, but there are many that rather pay for $90 for a laminator and 
have boards done this evening. I am talking about the guys who work 
in R&D at Langley, for example.
> 
> #2) not all peple on this list can afford to buy these parts.

==that is a bummer. John Kleinbauer from www.kleinbauer.com once 
said, and I paraphrase him with pleasure because he is a terrific guy-
 that regretfully this (CNC) hobby does cost money. So does PCB 
making. Time is money, and I would suggest taking a job for $5 an 
hour and buy a laminator rather than do it and have an unpredictable 
result- maybe, with hourly pay maybe 30 cents an hour, a year from 
now. Just a thought.
> 
> #3) there is little 'home brew' in a store bought unit.

==But there is, Dave. Remember, you still have to know how to use it. 
The homebrew might mean 'homebrew laminator' or 'homebrew PCB'. I am 
for 'homebrew PCB'.
Then you have to adjust it for thicker boards, instructions available 
compliments of www.pulsar.gs, we cannot ask for more. I know that 
www.pulsar.gs spent lots of time and money to develop that laminator 
and conversion. He is a great guy by the way and we are just 
benefiting from his enterprenurial skills. I like learning from 
people- I di not come up with this combination, I just verified it 
with my highly critical skills and lots of money. Maybe I should have 
sold it on ebay?! hint hint.

> 
> #4) the HC200 does not handle 3 foot by 4 foot sheets of PBC so 
there 
> is a gap between the unit size and the maximum board size.

==You are trying hard, Dave. I am looking at phenolic PCBs 8ea, 
16"x20' and I am not sure if it was you or someone else who was 
looking for them. I'll let you have them for $5 a piece+shipping, if 
it was you. I don't recall anybody wanting to build a 3'x4' PCB using 
TT. I also don't think that anyone might want to layout PCBs of that 
size. And I don't think a Xerox conductor can do it either. I'll stop 
here, because I think you meant something else. Also, that's why 
people do cut their boards before laminating them.. However, one 
thing is for sure, HC200 is for 8.5x11- they also have two other 
sizes, they, meaning GBC.
> 
> #5) each week, paper changes and each month, someone posts yet 
> another 'best paper'  Some will hold that magazine paper is best 
due 
> to cost and availability.

==You are very correct. I tried them, all, spent lots of money on all 
kinds of secret papers. I even tried to make my own paper and I tried 
to coat it with dextrine. With all the expertise that I have on paper 
manufacturing, it didn't help. Then I tried the paper by Gootee, from 
Staples. You don't think I am making this stuff up, Dave? Thank you. 
Please try that paper once with HC200 and let us know. I tried and I 
almost fainted when I saw the result. I showed it to my friend and he 
was sceptical before seeing it. I mean he was sceptical. When he saw 
it he almost fainted. We've been trying to corral that rabbit for 
long time, following every lead on this board, all there is on 
internet, everywhere. And the only time it worked is as described by 
me. It's that simple. You want PCBs at home and you don't want to 
spend time following the false leads on this board that here is the 
answer: HC200 and paper by Gootee. Why do you think I am so adamant 
about this combination? Because it cost me a lot of money to be so 
adamant about it. Mostly due to false leads on this and other boards. 
leads are just that- leads: use it at your own risk, your mileage may 
vary. But not with the HC200 and Gootee paper. This is it for 
homebrewing PCBs. If someone finds a better method, better 
combination, please repay the debt to this board, like I am doing and 
post the results. I will be glad to try it. Also, it is possible that 
by the time one makes to the store the laminators will be gone, more 
expensive or redesigned. Paper will be on sale but it will be a 
different kind. I have a stash of paper put aside.

> 
> But, I would grant that it is HIGHLY RECOMENDED as a one shot 
> solution.

==I knew you would agree with me, at least that much. My take on it 
is that if one wants to start making PCBs in few hours and be happy 
with it, this is what they should do.

Few weeks ago there was an article in Nuts and Volts about making 
PCBs. I read that article and the author was rather ill informed, all 
copiec from internet. Deception, deception.  
> 
People, please try  that method and then comment on it. When Gootee 
first mentioned that paper few months ago, I said yeah, right. I 
tried all he suggested before and I had 70% success (once only 
approching 90%) ie it di not work like he suggested. Then I tried 
that Gootee suggested paper with that HC200 (that was my idea to 
combine the two), my, what a change. As I rememebr he was excited 
about that paper on his website, too. 
Thanks for commenting, Dave. Mike
:)

> just my 2 cents.
> 
> Dave