Homebrew PCBs

I am having the most difficult time trying to do toner transfer on 
some circuit boards.  I have tried 15 different papers including a new 
batch of Pulsar paper which isn't working either. I changed out the 
toner cartridge on the printer.  I have tried about 15 different 
settings on my iron for different temps.  I tried 3 different laser 
printers (all that I have).  I just cannot get toner to stick to the 
boards.

I have tried scotch bright, 400 grit paper, 600 grit paper, 1000 grit 
paper, and 1200 grit paper.  I clean very thoroughly with acetone, I 
don't touch the copper after cleaning, I don't touch the paper after 
printing.  

I am stumped and getting really frustrated - grrrrrr.

Sorry, had to vent.

Chris

lcdpublishing wrote:

>I am having the most difficult time trying to do toner transfer on 
>some circuit boards.  I have tried 15 different papers including a new 
>batch of Pulsar paper which isn't working either. I changed out the 
>toner cartridge on the printer.  I have tried about 15 different 
>settings on my iron for different temps.  I tried 3 different laser 
>printers (all that I have).  I just cannot get toner to stick to the 
>boards.
>
>I have tried scotch bright, 400 grit paper, 600 grit paper, 1000 grit 
>paper, and 1200 grit paper.  I clean very thoroughly with acetone, I 
>don't touch the copper after cleaning, I don't touch the paper after 
>printing.  
>
>I am stumped and getting really frustrated - grrrrrr.
>
>  
>

  Sounds like you've covered about everything else, the one thing I can 
think of off hand is if you iron simply isn't hot enough.  10 is a 
relative setting, if it doesn't have a high enough wattage, it may 
simply not get the toner hot enough on the other side of the paper.   
Try a different iron, or heat your oven to 300-350 ish, tape the paper 
to the board, and toss the board in once it's hot.  Shouldn't take more 
than a few minutes to get to temp. pull things out then use the iron 
just to get some pressure while still hot.  Won't get a good board, but 
if you get some ok transfer then you at least know everything else is 
working ok..  Be careful and don't get burned.


Actually, from the discussion on hot plates etc, I'm going to try 
straight on the stove.  The flat top stove I have has one of the best 
heating element patterns I've ever seen, at least over a 1/2 diameter 
section of the circular area.  Not to sure about pressing hard on the 
ceramic top so going to use a bit of extra heat for testing..

Alan

Hi Alan, thanks for the reply.  I use a digital thermometer to 
set/check the temp of the iron.  I have had great success at 380 
degrees F so I always use that setting.  However, in the mess for 
the last few days, I have tried anything from 240 degrees F all the 
way up to 440 degrees F with about a 40-50 degree increment --- all 
with the same results.

Darn this is frustrating, especially when the last few boards I did 
were outstanding.  Oh well, tomorrow is another day and perhaps the 
moon and the sun will be in the proper alignment again so I can get 
good toner transfer to copper again.

Chris



>   Sounds like you've covered about everything else, the one thing 
I can 
> think of off hand is if you iron simply isn't hot enough.  10 is a 
> relative setting, if it doesn't have a high enough wattage, it may 
> simply not get the toner hot enough on the other side of the 
paper.   
> Try a different iron, or heat your oven to 300-350 ish, tape the 
paper 
> to the board, and toss the board in once it's hot.  Shouldn't take 
more 
> than a few minutes to get to temp. pull things out then use the 
iron 
> just to get some pressure while still hot.  Won't get a good 
board, but 
> if you get some ok transfer then you at least know everything else 
is 
> working ok..  Be careful and don't get burned.
> 
> 
> Actually, from the discussion on hot plates etc, I'm going to try 
> straight on the stove.  The flat top stove I have has one of the 
best 
> heating element patterns I've ever seen, at least over a 1/2 
diameter 
> section of the circular area.  Not to sure about pressing hard on 
the 

> ceramic top so going to use a bit of extra heat for testing..
> 
> Alan
>

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:26:21 +0100, lcdpublishing  
<lcdpublishing@...> wrote:

> I am having the most difficult time trying to do toner transfer on
> some circuit boards.  I have tried 15 different papers including a new
> batch of Pulsar paper which isn't working either. I changed out the
> toner cartridge on the printer.  I have tried about 15 different
> settings on my iron for different temps.  I tried 3 different laser
> printers (all that I have).  I just cannot get toner to stick to the
> boards.
> I have tried scotch bright, 400 grit paper, 600 grit paper, 1000 grit
> paper, and 1200 grit paper.  I clean very thoroughly with acetone, I
> don't touch the copper after cleaning, I don't touch the paper after
> printing.
> I am stumped and getting really frustrated - grrrrrr.
> Sorry, had to vent.
> Chris


at that point i converted the fuser. but here it was only areas that  
wouldn't stick.

st

lcdpublishing wrote:

>Hi Alan, thanks for the reply.  I use a digital thermometer to 
>set/check the temp of the iron.  I have had great success at 380 
>degrees F so I always use that setting.  However, in the mess for 
>the last few days, I have tried anything from 240 degrees F all the 
>way up to 440 degrees F with about a 40-50 degree increment --- all 
>with the same results.
>
>Darn this is frustrating, especially when the last few boards I did 
>were outstanding.  Oh well, tomorrow is another day and perhaps the 
>moon and the sun will be in the proper alignment again so I can get 
>good toner transfer to copper again.
>
>Chris
>  
>


  Ok, with that said a few more things.  First, yes, I have some board 
that sticks relatively poorly.  It is brighter than normal, and seems to 
be staying bright, not sure if it's a coating or alloy of some sort.  
With dozens of sheets on hand I bypassed it and haven't really given it 
a second shot.  Note that if you even just took silicone spray, and 
sprayed on a board, it would be very difficult to remove, even with 
sandpaper etc, since it's inert.  It's why you do not ever ever ever use 
silicone products on a car unless you don't want to be able to repaint 
it, new paint will not stick properly and it's extremely difficult to 
remove.  Coatings and alloys etc that might work fine within the normal 
industrial PCB processes could conceivably make a board rather 
unsuitable for transfer or very difficult to use..

  Get some of the Reynold's parchment paper, it's pretty well non-stick 
itself.  You should get at least some to stay on the board with it, then 
you can look at the toner to board bond a lot better.  After heat and 
pressure, about the only thing left is the board itself.

  Actually the very best thing is to simply pre-etch the board.  Clean 
it some first, then etch until it turns the rosy pink, then rinse with 
distilled water.  The board surface should then be about as good as it 
will ever get, so then try the transfer.  If it won't work after that, 
no amount of other board prep is likely to work.

Alan

Hi ALan,

I tried pre-etching this morning and it may have helped.  

After going through 12 sheets of Pulsar paper, I emailed them (Frank) 
and he suggested I use a laminator rather than an iron.   THe unit he 
recommended for .062" thick boards is $129.00 right now - I will wait 
till they go on sale.

Anyway, back to my pre-etch.  On small test samples this proved to 
help a lot.  I was testing traces from .005" to .100", even the small 
ones were staying put.

However, as soon as I tried on a bigger board, the toner wouldn't 
stick again -grrr.  The next time I am making boards - hopefully 
tomorrow or Sunday, I will try a longer pre-etch to see if that helps 
on the bigger boards.

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions!

Chris



>   Actually the very best thing is to simply pre-etch the board.  
Clean 
> it some first, then etch until it turns the rosy pink, then rinse 
with 
> distilled water.  The board surface should then be about as good as 
it 
> will ever get, so then try the transfer.  If it won't work after 
that, 

> no amount of other board prep is likely to work.
> 
> Alan
>