Homebrew PCBs

Has anyone had any success using toner transfer methods in printing
lettering onto front panels of project boxes.?

I dont like the rub on transfer method and some easy diy budget idea
would be good.

ALSO

What about colored laquered pc boards.?
Has anyone successfuly been able to laquer up a board.?

Regards

gregW:-)

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:14:14 +0100, Greg W:-) <onegammyleg@...>  
wrote:

> Has anyone had any success using toner transfer methods in printing
>
> lettering onto front panels of project boxes.?
>
>
> I dont like the rub on transfer method and some easy diy budget idea
>
> would be good.
>


YES, i have tried it.
With a thin, small aluminum panel, and it worked just the same as a PCB.

I also used PCBs as front panels with the copper removed.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:14:14 +0100, Greg W:-) <onegammyleg@y...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone had any success using toner transfer methods in printing
> > lettering onto front panels of project boxes.?
> >
> > I dont like the rub on transfer method and some easy diy budget idea
> > would be good.
> >
> 
> 
> YES, i have tried it.
> With a thin, small aluminum panel, and it worked just the same as a PCB.
> 
> I also used PCBs as front panels with the copper removed.

I used to do all my front panels with rub-on lettering. Looks
fantastic, clear coat protects it, but what a pain to apply. A couple
of times I used PCB material etched and backlit, also a pain as I was
making photo etch patterns with rub-on patterns.

Stefan, did you only use black toner transfer, or color laser? If
there is a paper to use (or transparency film) for toner transfer,
being able to use color laser would be pretty cool.

Steve Greenfield

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:50:30 +0100, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> Stefan, did you only use black toner transfer, or color laser? If
>
> there is a paper to use (or transparency film) for toner transfer,
>
> being able to use color laser would be pretty cool.
>
>
> Steve Greenfield


I used only black (don't have a color laser), but i'm almost certain color  
will work.
For a paper i used silicone coated paper, since i wanted a shiny black  
transfer.
I covered the plate with clear tape to protect it better.

ST

In a message dated 1/10/2006 4:38:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
onegammyleg@... writes:

Has  anyone had any success using toner transfer methods in printing
lettering  onto front panels of project boxes.?



I have never fiddled with this "toner transfer method", but I  DID make a 
couple of VERY professional-looking front-panels using "PCB  techniques" in 
another era.  I did the layout/lettering of the panels using  Lettraset, a very 
high-class "rub-on lettering" brand, both for the label-words,  numbers, and 
"pointers" (lines, etc.) on blue-grid paper, and then had a  negative-film made of 
that at the right % reduction for the correct final  dimensions.  Then I 
photo-sensitized the aluminum panel (after Scotch-Brite  finishing!) and then 
photo-etched the film on that in the usual "PCB  manner."  I used FeCl³ etchant in 
the usual manner, except I WATCHED very  closely to see if it "ate" at the 
right rate, etc., as the aluminum reacts  differently than copper.  
 
After I decided it was deep enough, I rinsed, removed resist,  sprayed with 
clear spray, and the etched panel looked like it came from an  instrument-maker 
factory!  Easy!  When I did this same process on a  later "one-each box," I 
VERY-carefully squeegied on some very thin black  lacquer, and 
thinner-wiped-off the smear, before the final clear-spray, and all  the lettering and lines 
were BLACK-clear.  A bit nicer than  "grey".        Jan  Rowland


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, interested to know what kind of "photo-sensitising" you did on the 
aluminum.

Is it a home-made type of photo-sensitiser or commercial type? Can you 
provide the formulation? TIA.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <JanRwl@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Totaly OFF topic .. but who cares. (case front 
panels)



In a message dated 1/10/2006 4:38:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,
onegammyleg@... writes:

Has  anyone had any success using toner transfer methods in printing
lettering  onto front panels of project boxes.?



I have never fiddled with this "toner transfer method", but I  DID make a
couple of VERY professional-looking front-panels using "PCB  techniques" in
another era.  I did the layout/lettering of the panels using  Lettraset, a 
very
high-class "rub-on lettering" brand, both for the label-words,  numbers, and
"pointers" (lines, etc.) on blue-grid paper, and then had a  negative-film 
made of
that at the right % reduction for the correct final  dimensions.  Then I
photo-sensitized the aluminum panel (after Scotch-Brite  finishing!) and 
then
photo-etched the film on that in the usual "PCB  manner."  I used FeCl\ufffd 
etchant in
the usual manner, except I WATCHED very  closely to see if it "ate" at the
right rate, etc., as the aluminum reacts  differently than copper.

After I decided it was deep enough, I rinsed, removed resist,  sprayed with
clear spray, and the etched panel looked like it came from an 
instrument-maker
factory!  Easy!  When I did this same process on a  later "one-each box," I
VERY-carefully squeegied on some very thin black  lacquer, and
thinner-wiped-off the smear, before the final clear-spray, and all  the 
lettering and lines
were BLACK-clear.  A bit nicer than  "grey".        Jan  Rowland


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs

If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Greg W:-)" <onegammyleg@y...> 
wrote:
>
> Has anyone had any success using toner transfer methods in printing
> lettering onto front panels of project boxes.?
> 
> I dont like the rub on transfer method and some easy diy budget idea
> would be good.
> 
> ALSO
> 
> What about colored laquered pc boards.?
> Has anyone successfuly been able to laquer up a board.?
> 
> Regards
> 
> gregW:-)
>


What about the inkjet or laser printable "water slide decal" paper
such as  http://www.mcgpaper.com/decalkits.html or other suppliers?
It is available in white or clear base, place decal on a thin 
plexiglass front panel. do a goole search on "WATER SLIDE DECAL + 
inkjet"

> What about the inkjet or laser printable "water slide decal" paper
> such as  http://www.mcgpaper.com/decalkits.html or other suppliers?
> It is available in white or clear base, place decal on a thin 
> plexiglass front panel. do a goole search on "WATER SLIDE DECAL + 
> inkjet"

Looking at an old motherboard earlier, I noticed two things.   The
white component legend is about half lettering and half geometric
shapes.   The lettering is very thin.   A laser printer could easily
print that artwork.   So I was thinking, "Hmmm....can I get a laser
printer toner that's white, rather than black, so I can print this
onto transfer paper and use it to label my PCB ? "

Unfortunately, there's no such toner.   However, this WATER SLIDE
DECAL might work.   It comes in 8.5" by 11" sheets !   Also it comes
in a laserprinter version as well as inkjet.    I will investigate
this stuff further...

alan00463(alan00463@...) is reported to have said:
> 
> > What about the inkjet or laser printable "water slide decal" paper
> > such as  http://www.mcgpaper.com/decalkits.html or other suppliers?
> > It is available in white or clear base, place decal on a thin 
> > plexiglass front panel. do a goole search on "WATER SLIDE DECAL + 
> > inkjet"
> 
> Looking at an old motherboard earlier, I noticed two things.   The
> white component legend is about half lettering and half geometric
> shapes.   The lettering is very thin.   A laser printer could easily
> print that artwork.   So I was thinking, "Hmmm....can I get a laser
> printer toner that's white, rather than black, so I can print this
> onto transfer paper and use it to label my PCB ? "
> 
> Unfortunately, there's no such toner.   However, this WATER SLIDE
> DECAL might work.   It comes in 8.5" by 11" sheets !   Also it comes
> in a laserprinter version as well as inkjet.    I will investigate
> this stuff further...

Alan

Just about to do the component side of 2 boards I just finished tin
plating.  I'm using the WhiteTRF included in the Pulsar PCB starter
Kit.  The instructions start with "This film is for colorizing black
toner, printed from a laser or photocopier".

It also says "Because "WhiteTRF" uses a very heavy pigment to be able
to opaquely cover jet black toner, you will see large deposits of
white where it shouldn't be.  Don't panic.  All excess white will
easily lift off using adhesive tape.  It is preferred to use a low
tack tape like #M's Removable "MagicTape: or 3M '2070'.


So the answer to your question seems to be yes.  Check the Pulsar site
<Pulsar.gs> for the specifics. 

Wayne

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Topa <linuxone@i...> wrote:
>
> alan00463(alan00463@y...) is reported to have said:
> > 
> > > What about the inkjet or laser printable "water slide decal" paper
> > > such as  http://www.mcgpaper.com/decalkits.html or other suppliers?
> > > It is available in white or clear base, place decal on a thin 
> > > plexiglass front panel. do a goole search on "WATER SLIDE DECAL + 
> > > inkjet"
> > 
> > Looking at an old motherboard earlier, I noticed two things.   The
> > white component legend is about half lettering and half geometric
> > shapes.   The lettering is very thin.   A laser printer could easily
> > print that artwork.   So I was thinking, "Hmmm....can I get a laser
> > printer toner that's white, rather than black, so I can print this
> > onto transfer paper and use it to label my PCB ? "
> > 
> > Unfortunately, there's no such toner.   However, this WATER SLIDE
> > DECAL might work.   It comes in 8.5" by 11" sheets !   Also it comes
> > in a laserprinter version as well as inkjet.    I will investigate
> > this stuff further...
> 
> Alan
> 
> Just about to do the component side of 2 boards I just finished tin
> plating.  I'm using the WhiteTRF included in the Pulsar PCB starter
> Kit.  The instructions start with "This film is for colorizing black
> toner, printed from a laser or photocopier".
> 
> It also says "Because "WhiteTRF" uses a very heavy pigment to be able
> to opaquely cover jet black toner, you will see large deposits of
> white where it shouldn't be.  Don't panic.  All excess white will
> easily lift off using adhesive tape.  It is preferred to use a low
> tack tape like #M's Removable "MagicTape: or 3M '2070'.
> 
> 
> So the answer to your question seems to be yes.  Check the Pulsar site
> <Pulsar.gs> for the specifics. 
> 
> Wayne

I checked out the website, Wayne, thanks.   Did you use the GreenTRF
too?   Which etchant did you use?   I'm anxious to learn how your
board turns out with the WhiteTRF on the component layer.   Let us
know when you get it perfected.   How much does this stuff cost?

Alan

In a message dated 1/10/2006 7:01:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
pharmapack@... writes:

what  kind of "photo-sensitising" you did on the  
aluminum.



This was at least 25 years back, but I THINK I used the  General Cement (?) 
firm's photosensitive spray.  It comes in a small  aerosol can, and sprays on 
as a transparent pink, and one must of course do that  in subdued light.  Then 
cover it with a box or something to let it dry  overnight.  The stuff I used, 
as I recall, had to then be exposed with UV  or sunlight for a considerable 
time, compared to "photography exposing", with  the negative-film held flat on 
it in a contact-exp. frame.  I have since  seen pre-sensitized PCB stock in 
4x6" and up pieces advertised on the ad-pages  of hobby-electronics type mags.  
NO clue how those work; faster, or  what.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

alan00463(alan00463@...) is reported to have said:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Topa <linuxone@i...> wrote:
> >
> > alan00463(alan00463@y...) is reported to have said:
> > > 
> > > Looking at an old motherboard earlier, I noticed two things.   The
> > > white component legend is about half lettering and half geometric
> > > shapes.   The lettering is very thin.   A laser printer could easily
> > > print that artwork.   So I was thinking, "Hmmm....can I get a laser
> > > printer toner that's white, rather than black, so I can print this
> > > onto transfer paper and use it to label my PCB ? "
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > Just about to do the component side of 2 boards I just finished tin
> > plating.  I'm using the WhiteTRF included in the Pulsar PCB starter
> > Kit.  The instructions start with "This film is for colorizing black
> > toner, printed from a laser or photocopier".
> > 
> > It also says "Because "WhiteTRF" uses a very heavy pigment to be able
> > to opaquely cover jet black toner, you will see large deposits of
> > white where it shouldn't be.  Don't panic.  All excess white will
> > easily lift off using adhesive tape.  It is preferred to use a low
> > tack tape like #M's Removable "MagicTape: or 3M '2070'.
> > 
> > 
> > So the answer to your question seems to be yes.  Check the Pulsar site
> > <Pulsar.gs> for the specifics. 
> > 
> > Wayne
> 
> I checked out the website, Wayne, thanks.   Did you use the GreenTRF
> too?   Which etchant did you use?   I'm anxious to learn how your
> board turns out with the WhiteTRF on the component layer.   Let us
> know when you get it perfected.   How much does this stuff cost?

Yes, I used the GreenTRF and it worked great, when I finally got a
'real' HP toner cartridge.

I used Ferric Chloride and followed the instructions on the "15 Minute
PCB" page. I etched two boards 1 was 2"x1 1/2" and the other was 2
1/2" x 1 3.4" and they both etched in a bit less then 1 minute each.  I
warmed the etchant in warm water as I was doing the etching outdoors
and the temp was 34deg F.  I haven't etched a board in over 20 years
and did not believe it would be that fast.  They both came out very
good. I did not see any sigh if traces widening as others have seen.
I will try to post some pictures tomorrow.

The larger board did not come out so good with the WhiteTRF.  I
believe it was due to me not waiting long enough for the laminator to
warm up.  They say it should be warm enough in 12 minutes but the
'ready' light does not fully illuminate for 45 minutes in my workroom.
I sent the first board through after about 15 minutes.  The 2nd board
went through about 50 minutes after turn on and, except for the
blurring because I sent it through the printer twice, came out like I
would expect.  All in all for just starting to get the hang of this, I
am very pleased.  

I have no idea what the WhiteTRF costs.  It came with the starter kit
along with a roll of tape to remove the excess white and a can of
'Goof Off' to remove the GreenTRF and Toner after etching.  The
WhiteTRF comes in a roll (like a bolt cloth would) 8 inches wide by 15
feet long, the same as the Green TRF.

Wayne

The decal paper is available at model train suppliers.  Runs a couple of 
dollars per sheet (8-1/2x11).  Two types - laser and inkjet.  The inkjet 
requires an overspray - krylon laquer, etc. for water resistance.  You don't 
need to print a full sheet - print on plain paper, then cut and tape the 
decal paper over the printed area and re-print.  Works great, no fuss, no 
chemicals, and can be slid around a bit while wet for exact positioning.

Norm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "scratch_6057" <dml.empsrch@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Totaly OFF topic .. but who cares. (case front 
panels)

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Greg W:-)" <onegammyleg@y...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone had any success using toner transfer methods in printing
>> lettering onto front panels of project boxes.?
>>
>> I dont like the rub on transfer method and some easy diy budget idea
>> would be good.
>>
>> ALSO
>>
>> What about colored laquered pc boards.?
>> Has anyone successfuly been able to laquer up a board.?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> gregW:-)
>>
>
>
> What about the inkjet or laser printable "water slide decal" paper
> such as  http://www.mcgpaper.com/decalkits.html or other suppliers?
> It is available in white or clear base, place decal on a thin
> plexiglass front panel. do a goole search on "WATER SLIDE DECAL +
> inkjet"
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.16/225 - Release Date: 1/9/2006
>
>

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:06:13 +0100, alan00463 <alan00463@...> wrote:

>
>
> Looking at an old motherboard earlier, I noticed two things.   The
>
> white component legend is about half lettering and half geometric
>
> shapes.   The lettering is very thin.   A laser printer could easily
>
> print that artwork.   So I was thinking, "Hmmm....can I get a laser
>
> printer toner that's white, rather than black, so I can print this
>
> onto transfer paper and use it to label my PCB ? "


You could also simply use black.

ST

Toner transfers for front panels is the plan here too.:)

I did a bunch of experimenting on 1/8" aluminum. It doesn't transfer 
exactly like the regular PCB stuff. I figured it was due to the 
metal's ability to take in heat. The results were slightly 
unpredictable here.

You'll be glad to know that I did find sort of a fix, by spraying a 
light mist of clear acrylic (Krylon brand) over the metal beforehand. 
It sort of "glued" the paper down to the sheet and helped grab the 
toner. Not much heat or pressure was needed. I think I had crappy 
results with a lacquer spray, so you may try different stuff. I'll 
also be topcoating for protection.

Board labels have worked here too, but the varying surface on double 
sided boards can screw things up pretty bad (there was a thread here a 
little while ago).

If you didn't find out, the TRF rolls are only 6 or 7 dollars (usd) 
through Digikey. I'm hoping the white will let me do white labels on 
black panel. There's a decorative paper supplier on the web (www.
paperdirect.com), who has something similar. I think it sells in a 
pack of sheets for $20. They've got weird colors like metallics and 
stuff. They also do multi-color sample packs.

               Take Care,
George

PS- Getting a bit wild one night, I tried toner to plastics and glass. 
The glass split all to crap after it heated up, but a piece of 
speckled, sand-colored formica took a good transfer. I really want to 
do Lexan or Plexiglas. That was risky. The Lexan took a great transfer 
on part of it, and got gooey with bubbles on the rest. It would 
probably be a matter of getting the perfect heat/time down. I may try 
it again with an acrylic coat and my new aluminum base plate on the 
iron (could go a little better).

Thanks for the info.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <JanRwl@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Totaly OFF topic .. but who cares. (case front 
panels)

>
> In a message dated 1/10/2006 7:01:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> pharmapack@... writes:
>
> what  kind of "photo-sensitising" you did on the
> aluminum.
>
>
>
> This was at least 25 years back, but I THINK I used the  General Cement 
> (?)
> firm's photosensitive spray.  It comes in a small  aerosol can, and sprays 
> on
> as a transparent pink, and one must of course do that  in subdued light. 
> Then
> cover it with a box or something to let it dry  overnight.  The stuff I 
> used,
> as I recall, had to then be exposed with UV  or sunlight for a 
> considerable
> time, compared to "photography exposing", with  the negative-film held 
> flat on
> it in a contact-exp. frame.  I have since  seen pre-sensitized PCB stock 
> in
> 4x6" and up pieces advertised on the ad-pages  of hobby-electronics type 
> mags.
> NO clue how those work; faster, or  what.
>

I had some missing contact areas the first time I tried the Pulsar
system.  I was able to solve the problem by running the board through
the laminator multiple times.  I found it wasn't hot enough unless it
was too hot to continue holding in my hand.

The 9 inch laminator is slow to warm up.  The "WARM" sign just starts
to show up after about 15 minutes on my machine.  Nevertheless, I get
good contact after 15 minutes with six passes of the board. 

I really like the sponging style of board etch.  I've produced 8
different boards averaging about 6 square inches each with a total of
4 ounces of etchant.  There's no exhausted etchant to dispose of
because I squeeze the used liquid out on a newspaper as its being
used. I also like the fact that latex gloves, and a piece of sponge
comprise the total of required equipment.  It also works well at low
temperatures.  There is no need to heat the etchant. 

> I used Ferric Chloride and followed the instructions on the "15 Minute
> PCB" page. I etched two boards 1 was 2"x1 1/2" and the other was 2
> 1/2" x 1 3.4" and they both etched in a bit less then 1 minute each.  I
> warmed the etchant in warm water as I was doing the etching outdoors
> and the temp was 34deg F.  I haven't etched a board in over 20 years
> and did not believe it would be that fast.  They both came out very
> good. I did not see any sigh if traces widening as others have seen.
> I will try to post some pictures tomorrow.
> 
> The larger board did not come out so good with the WhiteTRF.  I
> believe it was due to me not waiting long enough for the laminator to
> warm up.  They say it should be warm enough in 12 minutes but the
> 'ready' light does not fully illuminate for 45 minutes in my workroom.
> I sent the first board through after about 15 minutes.  The 2nd board
> went through about 50 minutes after turn on and, except for the
> blurring because I sent it through the printer twice, came out like I
> would expect.  All in all for just starting to get the hang of this, I
> am very pleased.  
> 
> I have no idea what the WhiteTRF costs.  It came with the starter kit
> along with a roll of tape to remove the excess white and a can of
> 'Goof Off' to remove the GreenTRF and Toner after etching.  The
> WhiteTRF comes in a roll (like a bolt cloth would) 8 inches wide by 15
> feet long, the same as the Green TRF.
> 
> Wayne
>

Wayne Topa(linuxone@...) is reported to have said:
> alan00463(alan00463@...) is reported to have said:
> 
> I used Ferric Chloride and followed the instructions on the "15 Minute
> PCB" page. I etched two boards 1 was 2"x1 1/2" and the other was 2
> 1/2" x 1 3.4" and they both etched in a bit less then 1 minute each.  I
> warmed the etchant in warm water as I was doing the etching outdoors
> and the temp was 34deg F.  I haven't etched a board in over 20 years
> and did not believe it would be that fast.  They both came out very
> good. I did not see any sign of traces widening as others have seen.
> I will try to post some pictures tomorrow.

The pictures were added to the photo section under Pulsar.

Wayne

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Topa <linuxone@i...> wrote:
>
> Wayne Topa(linuxone@i...) is reported to have said:
> > alan00463(alan00463@y...) is reported to have said:
> > 
> > I used Ferric Chloride and followed the instructions on the "15 Minute
> > PCB" page. I etched two boards 1 was 2"x1 1/2" and the other was 2
> > 1/2" x 1 3.4" and they both etched in a bit less then 1 minute
each.  I
> > warmed the etchant in warm water as I was doing the etching outdoors
> > and the temp was 34deg F.  I haven't etched a board in over 20 years
> > and did not believe it would be that fast.  They both came out very
> > good. I did not see any sign of traces widening as others have seen.
> > I will try to post some pictures tomorrow.
> 
> The pictures were added to the photo section under Pulsar.
> 
> Wayne

Those boards look nice, Wayne.   Thanks for the photos.
Is that Tinnit you used on the traces?   Did you place the whiteTRF
artwork (component legend) all in one sheet?  or did you do the shapes
them individually?    How do they look up close and personal?

Alan

alan00463(alan00463@...) is reported to have said:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Topa <linuxone@i...> wrote:
> >
> 
> Those boards look nice, Wayne.   Thanks for the photos.
> Is that Tinnit you used on the traces?  

Not bad for the first try but I'm sure I can do better.
Yes I uded Tinnit.

> Did you place the whiteTRF
> artwork (component legend) all in one sheet?  or did you do the shapes
> them individually?    How do they look up close and personal?

I cut pieces of the WhiteTRF sightly larger then the board.  It was
easy to position correctly over the copy on the paper.  I did have to
tape it across the top (with a piece of Avery label and at each corner
on the last part through the printer) to keep the TRF from curling.
That was another problem with the larger board, I didn't anchor the
trailing edge corners.

THe smaller board 'would' have been perfect 'up close and personal' if
I hadn't run it through the printer twice.  Even with the slight
offset it is legible.  I 'thought' the second pass through the printer
was needid because the first board came out to light but I was wrong.
The first board/s TRF curled and the temp was too low (I think) when I
ran it through the laminator.

BTW I have asked Pulsar to klet me know how much the 8 in. x 15 Ft
bolt of WhiteTRF costs.  I'll let you know when they answer.

Regards 

Wayne