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2006-04-04 by LogicResearch
Ok, Now I have my chemicals and PCB etc, it's time to experiment with making the boards. I'm using photo resist and developer etc - should I just experiment with times or does somebody have a good suggestion. cheers, Daryl.
2006-04-04 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > Ok, > > Now I have my chemicals and PCB etc, it's time to experiment with making > the > boards. > > I'm using photo resist and developer etc - should I just experiment with > times or does somebody have a good suggestion. The development is easy, just make sure you have the right concentration and you can see when the resist has been removed - it turns purple in the solution. It only takes about 30 seconds or so for me with NaOH. For the UV exposure you need to experiment. Best way is to use a technique like the test strip used in photography and make a test pattern. Put the pattern and PCB in the UV exposure unit and move a cardboard mask across every minute and see what exposure gives the best results. I use 13 minutes but I've only got two tubes and they are quite far from the glass. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
2006-04-04 by LogicResearch
Cheers, My resist is green and I have found that 9 minutes is getting close. Some areas are really good with well defined tracks, some areas are still lost in the green haze. More practice I guess. Daryl. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:22 AM > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > > >> Ok, >> >> Now I have my chemicals and PCB etc, it's time to experiment with making >> the >> boards. >> >> I'm using photo resist and developer etc - should I just experiment with >> times or does somebody have a good suggestion. > > The development is easy, just make sure you have the right concentration > and > you can see when the resist has been removed - it turns purple in the > solution. It only takes about 30 seconds or so for me with NaOH. > > For the UV exposure you need to experiment. Best way is to use a technique > like the test strip used in photography and make a test pattern. Put the > pattern and PCB in the UV exposure unit and move a cardboard mask across > every minute and see what exposure gives the best results. I use 13 > minutes > but I've only got two tubes and they are quite far from the glass. > > Leon > -- > Leon Heller, G1HSM > leon.heller@... > http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 03/31/06 >
2006-04-04 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > Cheers, > > My resist is green and I have found that 9 minutes is getting close. > Some areas are really good with well defined tracks, some areas are still > lost in the green haze. > More practice I guess. Make sure that the PCB material is fresh - the resist can deteriorate if it is old stock, and it won't work properly. I find it starts to go off if I keep it longer than six months or so. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
2006-04-04 by LogicResearch
Thanks for that, this should be fresh as I just brought it but who knows how long it's been sitting on RS's shelf. Another thing I thought of is that it had not dried properly. I have another set of practice boards curing overnight that I will play with tomorrow. Is there a better etchant than Ferric Chloride? Will I ever get some sleep? Thanks for the help. Daryl. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > > >> Cheers, >> >> My resist is green and I have found that 9 minutes is getting close. >> Some areas are really good with well defined tracks, some areas are still >> lost in the green haze. >> More practice I guess. > > Make sure that the PCB material is fresh - the resist can deteriorate if > it > is old stock, and it won't work properly. I find it starts to go off if I > keep it longer than six months or so. > > Leon > -- > Leon Heller, G1HSM > leon.heller@... > http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 03/31/06 > >
2006-04-04 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > Thanks for that, this should be fresh as I just brought it but who knows > how > long it's been sitting on RS's shelf. > Another thing I thought of is that it had not dried properly. > I have another set of practice boards curing overnight that I will play > with > tomorrow. > > Is there a better etchant than Ferric Chloride? > Will I ever get some sleep? Are you using pre-coated boards or coating them yourself? The uneven etching due to resist remaining after development is a sign that it might be old stock, if the boards are pre-coated. Is RS Radio Shack or RS in the UK? The latter will be OK. You don't need to dry the boards after development, just rinse them well and put them straight in the etchant. I use ferric chloride because it can be re-used many times,unlike ammonium or sodium perchlorate. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-04 by LogicResearch
I'm in New Zealand so it RS probably Australian stock and its the spray on stuff from a can although I might try the pre coated boards.
> Are you using pre-coated boards or coating them yourself? > > The uneven etching due to resist remaining after development is a sign > that > it might be old stock, if the boards are pre-coated. Is RS Radio Shack or > RS > in the UK? The latter will be OK. > > You don't need to dry the boards after development, just rinse them well > and put them straight in the etchant. I use ferric chloride because it can > be re-used many times,unlike ammonium or sodium perchlorate. > > Leon > -- > Leon Heller, G1HSM > leon.heller@... > http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller > > --- > [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility > to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are > currently using to read this email. ] > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 03/31/06 > >
2006-04-04 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > I'm in New Zealand so it RS probably Australian stock and its the spray on > stuff from a can although I might try the pre coated boards. I've never been able to get that spray-on resist to work! It was OK until they changed the formula a few years ago. The pre-coated boards will work much better. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-05 by LogicResearch
Hi again. Well so much for that - I was going to continue trying to get a good development but I might as well try something else as I need to get some PCBs made soon. I have just finished an email to a knowledgeable fellow, to whom I admitted that the new photoresist from RS may as well have been a can of whipped cream for all the good it does. The reason I am back here again is that I have found (whilst looking for Riston PCB's) Press 'n' Peel film. Simply (as they say) copy or print the artwork onto this film with a laser printer, Iron onto the blank PCB, peel off the film, and etch - simple. Has anyone used this before and is it as good as they say? Also I see another chemical, Ammonium Persulphate, that I have never used - anyone use this and does it have any advantages over Ferric Chloride? cheers, Daryl. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > > >> I'm in New Zealand so it RS probably Australian stock and its the spray >> on >> stuff from a can although I might try the pre coated boards. > > I've never been able to get that spray-on resist to work! It was OK until > they changed the formula a few years ago. The pre-coated boards will work > much better. > > Leon > -- > Leon Heller, G1HSM > leon.heller@... > http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller > > --- > [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility > to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are > currently using to read this email. ] > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and > Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date: 03/31/06 > >
2006-04-05 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "LogicResearch" <logicresearch@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > Hi again. > > Well so much for that - I was going to continue trying to get a good > development but I might as well try something else as I need to get some > PCBs made soon. > I have just finished an email to a knowledgeable fellow, to whom I > admitted > that the new photoresist from RS may as well have been a can of whipped > cream for all the good it does. > > The reason I am back here again is that I have found (whilst looking for > Riston PCB's) Press 'n' Peel film. > Simply (as they say) copy or print the artwork onto this film with a laser > printer, Iron onto the blank PCB, peel off the film, and etch - simple. > > Has anyone used this before and is it as good as they say? Some people get good results, with a lot of messing about with heated laminators. I've never been able to get it to work properly, using an ordinary clothes iron. > > Also I see another chemical, Ammonium Persulphate, that I have never > used - > anyone use this and does it have any advantages over Ferric Chloride? It's a lot cleaner as the solution is colourless, and the board is visible during etching. It won't keep when made up, fresh solution has to be used each time. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
2006-04-05 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:00:32 +0200, LogicResearch <logicresearch@...> wrote: > The reason I am back here again is that I have found (whilst looking for > > Riston PCB's) Press 'n' Peel film. > > Simply (as they say) copy or print the artwork onto this film with a > laser > > printer, Iron onto the blank PCB, peel off the film, and etch - simple. > > > Has anyone used this before and is it as good as they say? I don't use press and peel, i use inkjet paper which has a special coating that easily releases the toner. Many use this method here with great results, it's called toner transfer. I find it much less work and much faster than when i had to mess around with film printing, exposure, developing, and photoresist. I wanted to use old board stock back then, which i know now just doesn't work well, and it is totally against my nature to throw something away only because it is old and buy new stuff, so i never liked it. Coating boards myself with spray-on resist or film didn't seem practical either. Toner transfer is a lot cheaper overall and the results are just as good (well, a lot better actually if you compare to the desasterous photoprocess i used...). Look in the links section and in the archives if you want to learn more. It seems to me most people who use it long term with good results don't use press and peel but instead various other papers. I'm not sure if it is just because it is cheaper or maybe press and peel might not be that good after all, i dunno. > Also I see another chemical, Ammonium Persulphate, that I have never > used - > > anyone use this and does it have any advantages over Ferric Chloride? I think it doesn't stain so badly. You might want to look at CuCl etchant if you want something new. Also see-through in thin enough tanks and you can regenerate it time and time again which is probably most often why it is used... ST
2006-04-05 by Kamal Shankar
--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote: > I don't use press and peel, i use inkjet paper which > has a special coating > that easily releases the toner. > Many use this method here with great results, it's > called toner transfer. I knew about TonerTransfer method using laser printer (just bought some glossy paper and printed the traces, iron and done) But does this work for Inkjet too ? Since you have done it, can you please tell me what brand of special paper you use ? Also, how consistent are the results and what's the minimum track width & clearance you can manage using the inkjet ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
2006-04-05 by Leon Heller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kamal Shankar" <kbshankar2000@...> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making the PCB > --- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote: > > >> I don't use press and peel, i use inkjet paper which >> has a special coating >> that easily releases the toner. >> Many use this method here with great results, it's >> called toner transfer. > > I knew about TonerTransfer method using laser printer > (just bought some glossy paper and printed the traces, > iron and done) > > But does this work for Inkjet too ? > > Since you have done it, can you please tell me what > brand of special paper you use ? > > Also, how consistent are the results and what's the > minimum track width & clearance you can manage using > the inkjet ? Inkjets don't work for TT. I use one for making transparencies for the conventional PCB technique and don't have any problems with 8/8 mil design rules. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM leon.heller@... http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller --- [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are currently using to read this email. ]
2006-04-05 by Stefan Trethan
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:02:53 +0200, Kamal Shankar <kbshankar2000@...> wrote: > I knew about TonerTransfer method using laser printer > > (just bought some glossy paper and printed the traces, > > iron and done) > > > But does this work for Inkjet too ? > > > Since you have done it, can you please tell me what > > brand of special paper you use ? > > > Also, how consistent are the results and what's the > > minimum track width & clearance you can manage using > > the inkjet ? No it doesn't work with inkjet printers. The inkjet paper is used only because it has a special coating, in a laser printer. The results are very consistent once you know how to do it. (consistent enough so that i can be confident every board will be a success.) The minimum width i can reliably make is 6.66mil. Below that traces will break up due to underetching, transfer itself will work lower (e.g for text as component legend). Gap width can be 6.66mil too, but the closer the traces are together the more attention you must put into removing the paper - it will easily remain in those small gaps unless you rub there with a sponge or your finger. I usually use 10 mil clearance which does not need special attention. For most boards i will also use 10mil minimum trace width because there is plenty of space. ST