Homebrew PCBs

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:40:48 +0200, derekhawkins <eldata@...> wrote:

>> There is a bit of slop in the
>> bearings, but I don't break too many bits.
>
> I broke a .031" carbide bit yesterday trying to drill at a Z axis
> feedrate of 100 IPM and 30K RPM. Broke another this morning at 50 IPM,
> finally settled on 25 IPM. Vibration, runout, feedrate, RPM, material
> and bit size are typical suitability determinants.
>
<some snips and snippets>



WOW WHAT SPEED!

try to figure the feedrate on 0.001" per revolution when plunging into the  
(you put the right material) pcb.

-- 
----
Zoran A. Scepanovic
zastos@...

Hello,

I am in the market for a drill press to drill my homebrew pcbs, and I
was wondering if anyone had any recommendations. Here are some options
I have been considering:

- Dremel tool + Dremel 220-01 workstation
- a 10" bench-top drill press (like a Ryobi DP101 available
  at Home Depot)

The Dremel tool + 220 stand will cost anywhere from $100 - $150
depending on the tool I get. Does it work well for drilling PCBs?
A 10" bench-top drill press seems to cost about $100. Are there any
other options? I would say $150 is probably the upper end of my
budget, and I'd like to get by with spending less if possible.

Thanks for your help,

cm

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:16:45 +0200, circuitmangler <erantapaa@...>  
wrote:

> Hello,
> I am in the market for a drill press to drill my homebrew pcbs, and I
> was wondering if anyone had any recommendations. Here are some options
> I have been considering:
> - Dremel tool + Dremel 220-01 workstation
> - a 10" bench-top drill press (like a Ryobi DP101 available
>   at Home Depot)
> The Dremel tool + 220 stand will cost anywhere from $100 - $150
> depending on the tool I get. Does it work well for drilling PCBs?
> A 10" bench-top drill press seems to cost about $100. Are there any
> other options? I would say $150 is probably the upper end of my
> budget, and I'd like to get by with spending less if possible.
> Thanks for your help,
> cm
>


I found a homemade pivoting drill press works great. No play and much more  
feeling for the drill because there is no friction. Free too if you have  
some basic materials. I use a proxxon tool in it, much better quality than  
dremel IMO.

A full-size drill press is probably too slow for carbide drills.

ST

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Stefan Trethan
> Envoyé : août 16 2006 12:48
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill press recommendations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> A full-size drill press is probably too slow for carbide drills.
> 
> ST


Nope, not at all.  I'm using a MasterCraft drill press model # 55-5917-0.
It looks a lot like this unit:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_i
d=845524441897707

It has speeds of 570, 900, 1390, 2090 and 3050 with a built-in lamp, very
useful.  It is set at 3050 RPM right now and I've done many circuit boards
with it.  The shaft rotates true and doesn't break any tiny carbide bits.

Robert
:)

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:31:57 +0200, Robert Hedan  
<robert.hedan@videotron.ca> wrote:

> Nope, not at all.  I'm using a MasterCraft drill press model # 55-5917-0.
> It looks a lot like this unit:
> http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_i
> d=845524441897707
> It has speeds of 570, 900, 1390, 2090 and 3050 with a built-in lamp, very
> useful.  It is set at 3050 RPM right now and I've done many circuit  
> boards
> with it.  The shaft rotates true and doesn't break any tiny carbide bits.
> Robert
> :)


Good to know it is allright for manual drilling, those cnc machines use  
like 30 or 50kRPM.

ST

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Robert Hedan" <robert.hedan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:31 PM
Subject: RE : [Homebrew_PCBs] drill press recommendations?


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Stefan Trethan
> Envoy\ufffd : ao\ufffdt 16 2006 12:48
> \ufffd : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] drill press recommendations?
>
>
>
>
> ....
>
> A full-size drill press is probably too slow for carbide drills.
>
> ST


Nope, not at all.  I'm using a MasterCraft drill press model # 55-5917-0.
It looks a lot like this unit:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_i
d=845524441897707

It has speeds of 570, 900, 1390, 2090 and 3050 with a built-in lamp, very
useful.  It is set at 3050 RPM right now and I've done many circuit boards
with it.  The shaft rotates true and doesn't break any tiny carbide bits.


I use a Minicraft drill (MB1012) and stand at max. speed (18,000 rpm) for 
drilling PCBs, with tungsten carbide bits. There is a bit of slop in the 
bearings, but I don't break too many bits.

Leon

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:03:15 +0200, Leon Heller  
<leon.heller@...> wrote:

>
> I use a Minicraft drill (MB1012) and stand at max. speed (18,000 rpm) for
> drilling PCBs, with tungsten carbide bits. There is a bit of slop in the
> bearings, but I don't break too many bits.
> Leon


I actually manage to dull some these days and only break them when i make  
a mistake like hit it..

ST

ST - what does a pivoting drill press look like?

Thanks,
cm

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> 
> I found a homemade pivoting drill press works great. No play and
much more  
> feeling for the drill because there is no friction. Free too if you
have  
> some basic materials. I use a proxxon tool in it, much better
quality than  

> dremel IMO.
> 
> A full-size drill press is probably too slow for carbide drills.
> 
> ST
>

like
<http://trethan.at.tf/pub/img1/drill_left.JPG>

i have made some small changes, some quite important, but that's one way  
to make one.

A much simpler and probably sturdier one can be made with a piano hinge  
and two ply or mdf plates.
Mine is a bit more complicated because i planned to fit a optical  
projection mechanism which was never fitted...

ST

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:29:36 +0200, circuitmangler <erantapaa@...>  
wrote:

> ST - what does a pivoting drill press look like?
> Thanks,
> cm

>There is a bit of slop in the
>bearings, but I don't break too many bits.

I broke a .031" carbide bit yesterday trying to drill at a Z axis 
feedrate of 100 IPM and 30K RPM. Broke another this morning at 50 IPM, 
finally settled on 25 IPM. Vibration, runout, feedrate, RPM, material 
and bit size are typical suitability determinants.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...> 
wrote:
>

>try to figure the feedrate on 0.001" per revolution when plunging 
>into the (you put the right material) pcb.

I've seen .002" per rev recommended elsewhere. But, because we're 
talking short travel that means a high start velocity and high 
acceleration. High start velocity can cause vibration which is a no-no 
especially when the bit is in the board and the Z axis is changing 
direction. The smaller the bit the more likely it'll fail.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran A. Scepanovic" 
<zastos@...> wrote:
>

>> Someone wrote:
>> A full-size drill press is probably too slow
>> for carbide drills.

> Robert wrote:
> <snip other details of product>
> It has speeds of 570, 900, 1390, 2090 and 3050
> with a built-in lamp, very useful.  It is set
> at 3050 RPM right now and I've done many circuit
> boards with it.  The shaft rotates true and
> doesn't break any tiny carbide bits.

I would feel 3K is a bit slow for little carbide
drills.  I have one of them there Sakai MDH-1
drill presses.  It does 12K and I feel like I
want a little more when I am doing 0.5mm holes.

The Sakai is a nice little unit and I would
recomended it whole heartedly to the original
poster if it fell into the same ball park price.



I wonder if anyone that hangs around in the LRK
group has thought of making his own brushless DC
high speed spindle.........

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:08:08 +0200, Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

>
> I wonder if anyone that hangs around in the LRK
> group has thought of making his own brushless DC
> high speed spindle.........


Sure have, and Herbert Kabi would make spindles for you if you can afford  
them ;-)

I think an inrunner would be better for that though..

But then - a proxxon spindle costs what? 20eur? something like that  
anyway. Motor, collets, etc.. all in one unit. Not really much point in  
rolling your own, unless you need more RPM or something.

ST

In a message dated 8/16/2006 12:34:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
robert.hedan@... writes:

with a  built-in lamp, very
useful.  It is set at 3050 RPM right now and I've  done many circuit boards
with it.  The shaft rotates true and doesn't  break any tiny carbide bits.



Same here.  But you gotta HOPE for a better-than-usual  chuck on those 
Pacific Rim macines, or, replace with Jacobs before ever turning  it on!  Sometimes 
it helps to find an "O-ring" type belt to replace the  V-belt, which are often 
"nasty" and cause noise just be rotating around the  pulleys!  But this would 
only be for that fastest speed, NOT for "slow,  1/2" dia. metal-drilling 
speed"!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/16/2006 12:55:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
stefan_trethan@... writes:

those  cnc machines use like 30 or 50kRPM.<<
What is the "make", "Excellon" or whatever?  Those have 4  quills which are 
air-motors, which spin routinely at 100,000 RPM, and on up to  300,000 for many 
"tiny" holes!  Visiting a kind and patient PCB house is an  education!







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de JanRwl@...
> Envoyé : août 16 2006 20:26
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : Re: RE : [Homebrew_PCBs] drill press recommendations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same here.  But you gotta HOPE for a better-than-usual  chuck 
> on those 
> Pacific Rim macines, or, replace with Jacobs before ever 
> turning  it on!  Sometimes 
> it helps to find an "O-ring" type belt to replace the  
> V-belt, which are often 
> "nasty" and cause noise just be rotating around the  pulleys! 
>  But this would 
> only be for that fastest speed, NOT for "slow,  1/2" dia. 
> metal-drilling 
> speed"!


Do you have a link or a picture to this type of replacement belt Jan?  The
chuck works real nicely on it, I'm quite satisfied with this one.

It's true that this creature makes a racket though, I'd like to lower that
if at all possible.  I plan to add a 2 axis milling table on this one day
and convert the entire thingy to a CNC (Chris-willing).

I have yet to break a bit due to the machine, all the breaks were from me
not holding the PCB properly.  All my vias are 0.024in/0.61mm.

Robert
:)

> > Me wrote:
> > I wonder if anyone that hangs around in the LRK
> > group has thought of making his own brushless DC
> > high speed spindle.........
> 
> ST wrote: 
> Sure have, and Herbert Kabi would make spindles
> for you if you can afford them ;-)

Only want to do 20-30K - so I think I can do that
spindle OK myself.

> I think an inrunner would be better for that
> though..

Probably an inrunner instead an outrunner yes.
And LRK/SPS may not be best idea anyways if I
want that 30K speed.  Just a 9 stator 12 pole
probably.

> But then - a proxxon spindle costs what? 20eur?
> something like that anyway. Motor, collets,
> etc.. all in one unit. Not really much point
> in rolling your own, unless you need more RPM
> or something.

Must get better value spindles in europe.  In
OZ for $30 (20 euro) we can only get cheap knock
off chinese "Drummels" and "Praxxons".

But the reason I realy want to make a brushless
spindle is to get rid of the belt like in my
sakai.

In a message dated 8/16/2006 7:51:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
robert.hedan@... writes:

Do you  have a link or a picture to this type of replacement belt  Jan?


No, sorry.  Suggest you try Googling "Stock Drive  Products" and order their 
catalog.  The only one I have is 1991, printed  BEFORE they had any Internet 
site (IF they do, at all, now!).
 
Another possibility is _WWW.WMBERG.COM_ (http://www.WMBERG.COM)    They have  
EVERYTHING!
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Do you have a link or a picture to this type of replacement belt 
>Jan?

O-ring belts "nine ways to Sunday" at the link below, search on "o-
ring belt";

http://www.mcmaster.com/

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> 
wrote:
>