Homebrew PCBs

Hello all,
  First of all I know that to make wood alcohol the wood pulp slurry needs sulfuric acid added to break down the wood cellulose.  This helps the yeast access the sugars inside. Without sulfuric acid the production of wood alcohol would be very difficult.  I believe this could help in the manufacture of TT circuit boards.  If you soaked your TT circuit board in sulfuric acid it should turn the paper into a gelatin like mush and should just fall off.  I tried this in the shop last night but only had a small amount of watered down old battery acid.   The watered down acid did start to turn the paper clear and gel looking after 1/2 hour in a 32F ambient shop. I was freezing so I tried to hurry-up by pulling the paper off. You already know the results. I'll get some fresh new acid this week and try it again. Maybe someone else has tried this too.
  Dan

 	
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:59:18 +0100, Dan Pickard <dlpwebmail@...>  
wrote:

> Hello all,
>   First of all I know that to make wood alcohol the wood pulp slurry  
> needs sulfuric acid added to break down the wood cellulose.  This helps  
> the yeast access the sugars inside. Without sulfuric acid the production  
> of wood alcohol would be very difficult.  I believe this could help in  
> the manufacture of TT circuit boards.  If you soaked your TT circuit  
> board in sulfuric acid it should turn the paper into a gelatin like mush  
> and should just fall off.  I tried this in the shop last night but only  
> had a small amount of watered down old battery acid.   The watered down  
> acid did start to turn the paper clear and gel looking after 1/2 hour in  
> a 32F ambient shop. I was freezing so I tried to hurry-up by pulling the  
> paper off. You already know the results. I'll get some fresh new acid  
> this week and try it again. Maybe someone else has tried this too.
>   Dan


Hmm, i can see where you are going with this, but is it really worth the  
effort to mess with sulphuric acid when water and some rubbing also works  
well, and fast too?

ST

Wood Alcohol is not made with fermentation.  Wood alcohol is methanol.  Do you mean cellulose derived ethanol?  Ethanol is made with yeast, methanol (wood alcohol) is not.  I think wood is treated with sulfuric acid in the paper pulp making process; dunno about the cellulose to ethanol process (I am not sure anybody has gotten it to work very well yet).

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dan Pickard 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:59 AM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Sulfuric acid should remove TT paper.


  Hello all,
  First of all I know that to make wood alcohol the wood pulp slurry needs sulfuric acid added to break down the wood cellulose. This helps the yeast access the sugars inside. Without sulfuric acid the production of wood alcohol would be very difficult. I believe this could help in the manufacture of TT circuit boards. If you soaked your TT circuit board in sulfuric acid it should turn the paper into a gelatin like mush and should just fall off. I tried this in the shop last night but only had a small amount of watered down old battery acid. The watered down acid did start to turn the paper clear and gel looking after 1/2 hour in a 32F ambient shop. I was freezing so I tried to hurry-up by pulling the paper off. You already know the results. I'll get some fresh new acid this week and try it again. Maybe someone else has tried this too.
  Dan


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I had not thought of it before, but Sulfuric acid will attack cooper, no? 
Copper sulfate?

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Sulfuric acid should remove TT paper.


> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:59:18 +0100, Dan Pickard <dlpwebmail@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>   First of all I know that to make wood alcohol the wood pulp slurry
>> needs sulfuric acid added to break down the wood cellulose.  This helps
>> the yeast access the sugars inside. Without sulfuric acid the production
>> of wood alcohol would be very difficult.  I believe this could help in
>> the manufacture of TT circuit boards.  If you soaked your TT circuit
>> board in sulfuric acid it should turn the paper into a gelatin like mush
>> and should just fall off.  I tried this in the shop last night but only
>> had a small amount of watered down old battery acid.   The watered down
>> acid did start to turn the paper clear and gel looking after 1/2 hour in
>> a 32F ambient shop. I was freezing so I tried to hurry-up by pulling the
>> paper off. You already know the results. I'll get some fresh new acid
>> this week and try it again. Maybe someone else has tried this too.
>>   Dan
>
>
> Hmm, i can see where you are going with this, but is it really worth the
> effort to mess with sulphuric acid when water and some rubbing also works
> well, and fast too?
>
> ST
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Just make sure you don't use hot acid, as the copper in it will create 
sulfur dioxide, and you'll be choking on the fumes.

If the acid is cool, the reaction is very slow, so it's not an issue. 
Still, not the best way to remove paper.

BTW, concentrated sulfuric acid is available as professional drain 
cleaner in some hardware stores (an example brand is Zonk plus); in some 
instances it has dyes and/or buffers added, but it will destroy paper 
quite fast.

If you dilute concentrated acid, be careful of flash boiling as the 
dilution is very exothermic.


AnaLog Services, Inc. wrote:
> I had not thought of it before, but Sulfuric acid will attack cooper, no? 
> Copper sulfate?

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:28:33 +0100, AnaLog Services, Inc.  
<wireline@...> wrote:

> I had not thought of it before, but Sulfuric acid will attack cooper, no?
> Copper sulfate?


Not too badly without H2O2 present i think.
Also, you want to etch the board anyway.

ST

Borislav Trifonov <bdt@...> writes:
> If you dilute concentrated acid, be careful of flash boiling as the 
> dilution is very exothermic.

Always add acid to water, and not water to acid ?

--- Borislav Trifonov <bdt@...> wrote: 
> If you dilute concentrated acid, be careful of flash boiling as the 
> dilution is very exothermic.
> 

Danger - Danger - Danger
NEVER add water to sulfuric acid, only slowly add acid to the water...


 
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Hmm, i can see where you are going with this, but is it really worth the 
effort to mess with sulphuric acid when water and some rubbing also works 
well, and fast too?

ST


  I never had any good luck using water and photo paper. I always seem to pull a trace off in the process. The technique is too temperamental.  Anyway, I hope to be able to use ordinary printer paper.
  Dan


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