Homebrew PCBs

I have succesfully converted a Epson C88 to print PCBs. I am using only 
the Epson inks and have had some good looking tests. Magenta Is the 
best and I have produced traces at .001". I'm not sure if the printer 
is acualyy printing that fine but the traces look good. I can still 
remove the ink with acetone after etching. This does not seem as good 
as MSI inks and I will be trying them also. Solid black is terrible and 
comes off in the Fecl. Cyan is next worse, Yellow is better, composite 
black is better still but Magenta is really the best. I am curing at 
235C for about 5 minutes on a hot plate. I will be posting some photos 
soon.

What Ink are you using is it DuraBrite ? 
I cant get MIS-Pro here in Indonesia or Singapore .

Thomas

wnnelson0 wrote>
I have succesfully converted a Epson C88 to print PCBs. I am using only 
the Epson inks and have had some good looking tests. Magenta Is the 
best and I have produced traces at .001". I'm not sure if the printer 
is acualyy printing that fine but the traces look good. I can still 
remove the ink with acetone after etching. This does not seem as good 
as MSI inks and I will be trying them also. Solid black is terrible and 
comes off in the Fecl. Cyan is next worse, Yellow is better, composite 
black is better still but Magenta is really the best. I am curing at 
235C for about 5 minutes on a hot plate. I will be posting some photos 
soon. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 05:22 +0000, wnnelson0 wrote:
> I have succesfully converted a Epson C88 to print PCBs.

If you've got the time, a HowTo for that would go down here like an ice
cold Cooper's on a hot summer's day :)

Cheers
David

>  I am using only 
> the Epson inks and have had some good looking tests. Magenta Is the 
> best and I have produced traces at .001". I'm not sure if the printer 
> is acualyy printing that fine but the traces look good. I can still 
> remove the ink with acetone after etching. This does not seem as good 
> as MSI inks and I will be trying them also. Solid black is terrible
> and 
> comes off in the Fecl. Cyan is next worse, Yellow is better,
> composite 
> black is better still but Magenta is really the best. I am curing at 
> 235C for about 5 minutes on a hot plate. I will be posting some
> photos 
> soon. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

all excited I headed off to hunt down some sample's of Magenta ink that are compatible with Durabrite inks from the trusty ol refil shops we have here. 
Got home and out with the blank pcb and dabbed a few lines on it (couldn't wait), baked it to around 220 C  and it seems to have a sorta waxy or rubbery feel to it when you rub at the dried Ink however it still appears vulnerable ... the etching part seemed to eat away at the baked Ink in places but it worked. I think with a few refinements this ink from Oliser may be a goer however I'm still looking for something better.

My old  S200SPX Canon printer just got its Black ink tank cut open and flushed and resealed it with Hot glue and filled it with the Oliser brand replacement ink for Durabrite, I've now just printed the test page and I reckon it prints better than ever... just hope the nozzle does not dry out.

Now I need to modify the printer so as it will accept the PCB.

drink to that


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

all excited I headed off to hunt down some sample's of Magenta ink that are compatible with Durabrite inks from the trusty ol refil shops we have here. 
Got home and out with the blank pcb and dabbed a few lines on it (couldn't wait), baked it to around 220 C  and it seems to have a sorta waxy or rubbery feel to it when you rub at the dried Ink however it still appears vulnerable ... the etching part seemed to eat away at the baked Ink in places but it worked. I think with a few refinements this ink from Oliser may be a goer however I'm still looking for something better.

My old  S200SPX Canon printer just got its Black ink tank cut open and flushed and resealed it with Hot glue and filled it with the Oliser brand replacement ink for Durabrite, I've now just printed the test page and I reckon it prints better than ever... just hope the nozzle does not dry out.

Now I need to modify the printer so as it will accept the PCB.

drink to that


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes all I was using were the regular Epson Durabrite inks. I have extra
cartriges for various reasons so I can print lots of tests with these 
inks before I try something else. Im still concerned that Stefans MSI 
ink is so tough that acetone will not remove it. That is not or is a 
problem with the Epson ink. I have tried higher temps and longer times 
on the curing but it came out the same. I will post photos but the 
mods to the printer are similar to Stefans.




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <teecee@...> wrote:

>
> What Ink are you using is it DuraBrite ? 
> I cant get MIS-Pro here in Indonesia or Singapore .
>

A couple of suggestions:

With MIS ink.

Temperature is important - I have not had much success below 230 C
 - or above 240 C.

Ammonia will help remove the cured ink residue after etch. 

I use the same oven at a lower temperature and Plumbers Paste as the
tinning medium. There is no need to remove the cured residue the
Plumbers Paste paste takes care of it. The boards come out nicely
tinned. -This is the non water soluble variety of paste. 

The key to fine traces MAY be to reduce the "liquid" content of the
ink increasing the "solids" content while still getting the printer
head to pass the ink. This is what I am working on now.

Good Luck!

John






--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "wnnelson0" <wnnelson@...> wrote:

>
> 
> Yes all I was using were the regular Epson Durabrite inks. I have extra
> cartriges for various reasons so I can print lots of tests with these 
> inks before I try something else. Im still concerned that Stefans MSI 
> ink is so tough that acetone will not remove it. That is not or is a 
> problem with the Epson ink. I have tried higher temps and longer times 
> on the curing but it came out the same. I will post photos but the 
> mods to the printer are similar to Stefans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <teecee@> wrote:
> >
> > What Ink are you using is it DuraBrite ? 
> > I cant get MIS-Pro here in Indonesia or Singapore .
> >
>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:26:45 +0100, jam5411 <mardock@...> wrote:


> The key to fine traces MAY be to reduce the "liquid" content of the
> ink increasing the "solids" content while still getting the printer
> head to pass the ink. This is what I am working on now.
> Good Luck!
> John


What i would love to know is how come Volkan can make such fine traces and  
i cannot?

Do you use a single color/head, or do you mix colors using multiple heads?  
I think that may be a factor, because it is the only difference i can see.  
Also, i must try a short microetch to get a surface that takes ink more  
readily, that may also allow finer traces.

Anyway, it will probably be months until i can get back to inkjet  
printing, and i would appreciate any information at all found by other  
people working on it.

ST

Also, i must try a short microetch to get a surface that takes ink 
more readily, that may also allow finer traces.



You may be on to something there as I tried a different type of board 
last night and the results were not as good. I looked at the boards 
with a magnifier and the better board seemed to have a very finely 
etched surface where as the other was smoother. Again something else 
to make it harder to duplicate success.

I had success I spose you'd could call it with the ink that I got locally, but FeCl seems to attack the cured ink to some degree, 
what's the general feeling here either use H202/HCl mix  or is FeCl less aggressive.

Thomas





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 06:11:52 +0100, Thomas <teecee@...> wrote:

> I had success I spose you'd could call it with the ink that I got  
> locally, but FeCl seems to attack the cured ink to some degree,
> what's the general feeling here either use H202/HCl mix  or is FeCl less  
> aggressive.
> Thomas


I compared both having the same thought, and at least in my experiment  
FeCl seemed to be slightly more agressive to the MISPRO ink, but the  
difference was barely noticeable.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "wnnelson0" <wnnelson@...> wrote:
>What i would love to know is how come Volkan can make such fine
>traces and
>i cannot?

The best I have been able to obtain is about 5 mil. The problem I have
is so much liquid is being applied in the reduced widths in an effort
to obtain sufficient resist effect.

>Do you use a single color/head, or do you mix colors using multiple
>heads?

I am using the C84 conversion, all cartridges MISPRO yellow. I also am
working on an R220. This will take some time. I suspicion that I will
have to rig a microcontroller up to some of the signal paths to fool
the printer into thinking it is not in the "CD Printing" mode when it
actually is. Will be interesting to see if there are any differences
in the application of ink, for our purposes. Epson specs both printers
as the same dpi and picolitre droplet size. The R220 is a six color
head though. 
 
>I think that may be a factor, because it is the only difference i can
>see.
>Also, i must try a short microetch to get a surface that takes ink >more
>readily, that may also allow finer traces.

i have access to some 1000 - 3000 grit papers used in Autobody shops
for finishing paint. As I get time I will try a test using the various
grits from 320 to 3000 as well as a 'microetch' If there is
improvement perhaps we can quantify.

>Anyway, it will probably be months until i can get back to inkjet
>printing, and i would appreciate any information at all found by
>other people working on it.

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:23:48 +0100, jam5411 <mardock@...> wrote:

>
> I am using the C84 conversion, all cartridges MISPRO yellow.


What color do you print / do you know which heads you are using?


ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:23:48 +0100, jam5411 <mardock@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I am using the C84 conversion, all cartridges MISPRO yellow.
> 
> 
> What color do you print / do you know which heads you are using?
> 
> 
> ST
>

Using the Matte Finish, Best Photo and Transparency settings. Unless I
am wrong this will fire all colors as a replacement for black instead
of using the black cartridge alone. Deposits a lot of ink on the PC
board, but makes a very nice resist when dried down! Appears Volkan is
able to get by with less ink being deposited on the PC board to
achieve an effective resist? 

John

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:06:49 +0100, jam5411 <mardock@...> wrote:

> Appears Volkan is
> able to get by with less ink being deposited on the PC board to
> achieve an effective resist?
> John


yes, and i do not understand why.

ST

Hi Stefan,
It is most probably because of the printer that I am
using. It does not apply so much ink.  
Volkan

--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:06:49 +0100, jam5411
> <mardock@...> wrote:
> 
> > Appears Volkan is
> > able to get by with less ink being deposited on
> the PC board to
> > achieve an effective resist?
> > John
> 
> 
> yes, and i do not understand why.
> 
> ST
> 
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
> Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
> them here:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/

> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> mailto:Homebrew_PCBs-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:43:03 +0100, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...>  
wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
> It is most probably because of the printer that I am
> using. It does not apply so much ink.
> Volkan


Oh i can apply less ink with the C84 too, but if i use a lower setting it  
will not resist.
Only when i use the highest setting so that there is a puddle of ink it  
will resist after curing.
This is fine for wider traces if the board is prepared well, but can not  
make fine traces becasue the puddles link up.

You must make something differently. Could also be curing. I have  
postponed all experiments until i have enough time, and can finish the  
oven so i can make a proper test series.

ST