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paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-16 by juanabba

I need to make about a dozen or so boards, and as I did not find a
good paper/xerox printer combination, will like to go 
inkjetprint--->produce silk screen on a shop--->paint the design image
to the cooper side--->etch the undesired coope

any hints
is a good one??
kind of paint o be used????
other hints????

thanks in advance
jaun

Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-16 by urbom

Just finished 16 12"x18" boards this way.  I used a 320 mesh screen,
procap capillary film for the emulsion and fuji (sericol) quick dry
enamel ink.  Like all the other processes, cleaning the board well is
very important.  I think Nazdar ink would be fine too.  You can
retouch any pinholes after printing and take off any extra ink.  I
think that possibly an infrared bake after the initial cure might help
keep the ink on the board if you are using an agressive etch.  If yoy
want any other information about the printing, and where to get
supplies, let me know.  (could probably send enough nazdar ink to keep
you going for about a decade)  The procap is super and gives good
detail even though it is really costly.

Kevin
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I need to make about a dozen or so boards, and as I did not find a
> good paper/xerox printer combination, will like to go 
> inkjetprint--->produce silk screen on a shop--->paint the design image
> to the cooper side--->etch the undesired coope
> 
> any hints
> is a good one??
> kind of paint o be used????
> other hints????
> 
> thanks in advance
> jaun
>

Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-18 by juanabba

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "urbom" <urbomb@...> wrote:
>
> Just finished 16 12"x18" boards this way.  I used a 320 mesh screen,
> procap capillary film for the emulsion and fuji (sericol) quick dry
> enamel ink.  Like all the other processes, cleaning the board well is
> very important.  I think Nazdar ink would be fine too.  You can
> retouch any pinholes after printing and take off any extra ink.  I
> think that possibly an infrared bake after the initial cure might help
> keep the ink on the board if you are using an agressive etch.  If yoy
> want any other information about the printing, and where to get
> supplies, let me know.  (could probably send enough nazdar ink to keep
> you going for about a decade)  The procap is super and gives good
> detail even though it is really costly.
> 
> Kevin
> >
> > I need to make about a dozen or so boards, and as I did not find a
> > good paper/xerox printer combination, will like to go 
> > inkjetprint--->produce silk screen on a shop--->paint the design image
> > to the cooper side--->etch the undesired coope
> > 
> > any hints
> > is a good one??
> > kind of paint o be used????
> > other hints????
> > 
> > thanks in advance
> > jaun
> >
>
Hi Kevin
thanks for your answer
I was talking to the professionals down here that produce the
silkscreen mask, and I became very much sceptic whether the silk scren
mask could transfer any line  below 100 mil.  
They told me that the definition they have for the equipment that
produce the mask is below 200 DPI.

Is that the case at your country.???
how do you produce the mask, using professional services or DIY method???

Ill like all information you can provide about your method and sources

thanks in advance

Juan

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-19 by Kevin Urbom

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of juanabba
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:48 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen
- someone with experience



Hi Kevin
thanks for your answer
I was talking to the professionals down here that produce the
silkscreen mask, and I became very much sceptic whether the silk scren
mask could transfer any line below 100 mil. 
They told me that the definition they have for the equipment that
produce the mask is below 200 DPI.

Is that the case at your country.???
how do you produce the mask, using professional services or DIY
method???

 Juan:

Sorry for the delay.

I did my silkscreen DIY.  I bought a pre-stretched screen that is 230
mesh fabric, and used chromaline procap 30 capillary film for the
emulsion on the screen.   With my 400 watt metal halide lamp at 32
inches, the exposure time was about 35 minutes with an inkjet
transparency made on 3M inkjet transparency stock.  I tried a laser
printer transparency, but there were way too many pinholes.  The image
is then washed out and dried.  I screened white solvent based glossy ink
onto the pc board and after drying, etched in CuCl.  As far as how many
mils you can do, all of the signal traces on the boards that I did are
50 mil traces, separated by 50 mils in the best case, and by about 20 in
the worst case.  I also did a 50 pin centronics connector that has .075"
pads with .029 holes on about a 2.3mm x 5mm grid.  All the holes in the
pads showed and etched well eough to help guide the drill bit.  There is
a bit of a learning curve on how much to thin the ink, but once you get
it right, screening the actual boards is really fast.  If I quit being
lazy, I'll take some pics and put them on the group site.  I am
confident that 20 mil traces would be possible with some practice

 

Kevin

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Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-20 by juanabba

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Urbom" <urbomb@...> wrote:
>
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of juanabba
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:48 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen
> - someone with experience
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Kevin
> thanks for your answer
> I was talking to the professionals down here that produce the
> silkscreen mask, and I became very much sceptic whether the silk scren
> mask could transfer any line below 100 mil. 
> They told me that the definition they have for the equipment that
> produce the mask is below 200 DPI.
> 
> Is that the case at your country.???
> how do you produce the mask, using professional services or DIY
> method???
> 
>  Juan:
> 
> Sorry for the delay.
> 
> I did my silkscreen DIY.  I bought a pre-stretched screen that is 230
> mesh fabric, and used chromaline procap 30 capillary film for the
> emulsion on the screen.   With my 400 watt metal halide lamp at 32
> inches, the exposure time was about 35 minutes with an inkjet
> transparency made on 3M inkjet transparency stock.  I tried a laser
> printer transparency, but there were way too many pinholes.  The image
> is then washed out and dried.  I screened white solvent based glossy ink
> onto the pc board and after drying, etched in CuCl.  As far as how many
> mils you can do, all of the signal traces on the boards that I did are
> 50 mil traces, separated by 50 mils in the best case, and by about 20 in
> the worst case.  I also did a 50 pin centronics connector that has .075"
> pads with .029 holes on about a 2.3mm x 5mm grid.  All the holes in the
> pads showed and etched well eough to help guide the drill bit.  There is
> a bit of a learning curve on how much to thin the ink, but once you get
> it right, screening the actual boards is really fast.  If I quit being
> lazy, I'll take some pics and put them on the group site.  I am
> confident that 20 mil traces would be possible with some practice
> 
>  
> 
> Kevin
hi Kevin
Thanks a lot for the comprehensive answer.
I am trying to get the elements down here ( or finding a local
replacement ) so I can try out your method.

The doubt I have at this moment is the ink you use to silk screen the
cooper after producing your mask.
You mention  "white solvent based glossy ink"), is that the correct
spec????
But  before I understood  you use either 
a>	    fuji (sericol) quick dry enamel ink
or
b>	   Nazdar ink would be fine to

can you pls clarify this.??

Thanks  again, you are being extremely helpful

best regards
juan
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Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-23 by juanabba

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "juanabba" <jjose@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Urbom" <urbomb@> wrote:
> >
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@...m
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of juanabba
> > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:48 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk
screen
> > - someone with experience
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Kevin
> > thanks for your answer
> > I was talking to the professionals down here that produce the
> > silkscreen mask, and I became very much sceptic whether the silk scren
> > mask could transfer any line below 100 mil. 
> > They told me that the definition they have for the equipment that
> > produce the mask is below 200 DPI.
> > 
> > Is that the case at your country.???
> > how do you produce the mask, using professional services or DIY
> > method???
> > 
> >  Juan:
> > 
> > Sorry for the delay.
> > 
> > I did my silkscreen DIY.  I bought a pre-stretched screen that is 230
> > mesh fabric, and used chromaline procap 30 capillary film for the
> > emulsion on the screen.   With my 400 watt metal halide lamp at 32
> > inches, the exposure time was about 35 minutes with an inkjet
> > transparency made on 3M inkjet transparency stock.  I tried a laser
> > printer transparency, but there were way too many pinholes.  The image
> > is then washed out and dried.  I screened white solvent based
glossy ink
> > onto the pc board and after drying, etched in CuCl.  As far as how
many
> > mils you can do, all of the signal traces on the boards that I did are
> > 50 mil traces, separated by 50 mils in the best case, and by about
20 in
> > the worst case.  I also did a 50 pin centronics connector that has
.075"
> > pads with .029 holes on about a 2.3mm x 5mm grid.  All the holes
in the
> > pads showed and etched well eough to help guide the drill bit. 
There is
> > a bit of a learning curve on how much to thin the ink, but once
you get
> > it right, screening the actual boards is really fast.  If I quit being
> > lazy, I'll take some pics and put them on the group site.  I am
> > confident that 20 mil traces would be possible with some practice
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Kevin
> hi Kevin
> Thanks a lot for the comprehensive answer.
> I am trying to get the elements down here ( or finding a local
> replacement ) so I can try out your method.
> 
> The doubt I have at this moment is the ink you use to silk screen the
> cooper after producing your mask.
> You mention  "white solvent based glossy ink"), is that the correct
> spec????
> But  before I understood  you use either 
> a>	    fuji (sericol) quick dry enamel ink
> or
> b>	   Nazdar ink would be fine to
> 
> can you pls clarify this.??
> 
> Thanks  again, you are being extremely helpful
> 
> best regards
> juan
> 
hi Kevin
sorry for coming back to question
can you pls look at my last question above
best regards and thanks again
juan


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RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-23 by Kevin Urbom

Don't think that I got the last message.
 
The ink that I used was specifically Sericol Fast Dry Enamel, White.
http://www.sericol.com/GraphicScreen/GSImages/PDFSheets/Solventbased/Fas
tDryEnamel.pdf
 
I also bought some Nazdar gloss white enamel ink, don't have the link
handy right now, that I think would work as well, but would dry slower.
I believe that a period of "baking" the ink with either an infrared
heater or an oven might improve the hardness and the ink's resistance to
lifting in the etch.  I am not so sure that the type of ink is critical,
as long as it is solvent based rather than plastisol or water based.  If
a person could find a lacquer that was thick enough to silkscreen with,
it would probably work.  Silkscreen ink is THICK.  About like mayonnaise
but not quite peanut butter.  When you scoop some out of the can, the
hole fills in fairly slowly.  I don't think normal paint, (runny) would
work.  In fact, I know it won't since I tried it a few years ago and it
made a real mess.  I don't know what country you live in, but I am sure
that any screen printer will have access to an ink that he has to clean
out of the screen with mineral spirits or lacquer thinner or some other
solvent that stinks a lot.  With either Nazdar or Sericol ink, you are
supposed to thin the ink with about 10% of solvent.  It is still a lot
thicker than paint. 
 
Hope this helps.
 
Kevin
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of juanabba
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:51 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen
- someone with experience



> > Kevin
> hi Kevin
> Thanks a lot for the comprehensive answer.
> I am trying to get the elements down here ( or finding a local
> replacement ) so I can try out your method.
> 
> The doubt I have at this moment is the ink you use to silk screen the
> cooper after producing your mask.
> You mention "white solvent based glossy ink"), is that the correct
> spec????
> But before I understood you use either 
> a> fuji (sericol) quick dry enamel ink
> or
> b> Nazdar ink would be fine to
> 
> can you pls clarify this.??
> 
> Thanks again, you are being extremely helpful
> 
> best regards
> juan
> 
hi Kevin
sorry for coming back to question
can you pls look at my last question above
best regards and thanks again
juan



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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk screen - someone with experience

2007-03-24 by qamar islam

juanabba <jjose@...> wrote:          --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "juanabba" <jjose@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Urbom" <urbomb@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of juanabba
> > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:48 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: paint board cooper image using silk
screen
> > - someone with experience
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Kevin
> > thanks for your answer
> > I was talking to the professionals down here that produce the
> > silkscreen mask, and I became very much sceptic whether the silk scren
> > mask could transfer any line below 100 mil. 
> > They told me that the definition they have for the equipment that
> > produce the mask is below 200 DPI.
> > 
> > Is that the case at your country.???
> > how do you produce the mask, using professional services or DIY
> > method???
> > 
> > Juan:
> > 
> > Sorry for the delay.
> > 
> > I did my silkscreen DIY. I bought a pre-stretched screen that is 230
> > mesh fabric, and used chromaline procap 30 capillary film for the
> > emulsion on the screen. With my 400 watt metal halide lamp at 32
> > inches, the exposure time was about 35 minutes with an inkjet
> > transparency made on 3M inkjet transparency stock. I tried a laser
> > printer transparency, but there were way too many pinholes. The image
> > is then washed out and dried. I screened white solvent based
glossy ink
> > onto the pc board and after drying, etched in CuCl. As far as how
many
> > mils you can do, all of the signal traces on the boards that I did are
> > 50 mil traces, separated by 50 mils in the best case, and by about
20 in
> > the worst case. I also did a 50 pin centronics connector that has
.075"
> > pads with .029 holes on about a 2.3mm x 5mm grid. All the holes
in the
> > pads showed and etched well eough to help guide the drill bit. 
There is
> > a bit of a learning curve on how much to thin the ink, but once
you get
> > it right, screening the actual boards is really fast. If I quit being
> > lazy, I'll take some pics and put them on the group site. I am
> > confident that 20 mil traces would be possible with some practice
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Kevin
> hi Kevin
> Thanks a lot for the comprehensive answer.
> I am trying to get the elements down here ( or finding a local
> replacement ) so I can try out your method.
> 
> The doubt I have at this moment is the ink you use to silk screen the
> cooper after producing your mask.
> You mention "white solvent based glossy ink"), is that the correct
> spec????
> But before I understood you use either 
> a> fuji (sericol) quick dry enamel ink
> or
> b> Nazdar ink would be fine to
> 
> can you pls clarify this.??
> 
> Thanks again, you are being extremely helpful
> 
> best regards
> juan
> 
hi Kevin
sorry for coming back to question
can you pls look at my last question above
best regards and thanks again
juan

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