Homebrew PCBs

I’m looking for higher concentration H2O2 to try my hand at Toner Transfer
board etching.

I did some internet searches for Beauty Supplies (and then Hydrogen Peroxide
on their website) but I came up with a bewildering array of creams, etc. but
nothing like “30% H2O2 in gallon size”, etc.

Can someone give me a Product Name, Brand Name, and/or product category
(like: “bulk hair bleach”, etc.) that can help me ‘cut to the chase’ when
I’m talking to Beauty Supply places or doing Internet searches?  What
exactly do I ask for?  

(BTW:  I’m in Tampa, Florida, USA.  Are there any list members near me?)
 
Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

"Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@...> writes:
> I'm looking for higher concentration H2O2 to try my hand at Toner
> Transfer board etching.

You don't need it.

Go to the drug store or supermarket and get a bunch of the generic 3%
hydrogen peroxide bottles.

Go to the hardware store (Lowes or True Value, for example) and get
some muriatic acid/HCL - it's in the paint isle, used as a concrete
primer, usually 37% strength.

Add one part HCl to two parts peroxide (add acid to peroxide, not the
other way around) and etch.

This should cost you less than $10.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:13:18 -0400, you wrote:

>I\ufffdm looking for higher concentration H2O2 to try my hand at Toner Transfer
>board etching.
>
>I did some internet searches for Beauty Supplies (and then Hydrogen Peroxide
>on their website) but I came up with a bewildering array of creams, etc. but
>nothing like \ufffd30% H2O2 in gallon size\ufffd, etc.
>
>Can someone give me a Product Name, Brand Name, and/or product category
>(like: \ufffdbulk hair bleach\ufffd, etc.) that can help me \ufffdcut to the chase\ufffd when
>I\ufffdm talking to Beauty Supply places or doing Internet searches?  What
>exactly do I ask for?  
>
>(BTW:  I\ufffdm in Tampa, Florida, USA.  Are there any list members near me?)

Orlando.

Harvey

>\ufffd
>Cheers,
>
>Chuck Hackett
>"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
>7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
>http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck
>
>

> Chuck  wrote:
>
> I'm looking for higher concentration H2O2
> to try my hand at Toner Transfer board
> etching.


Go to a hydropnoics shop.

Cough twice.

Say "I need some hydrogen peroxide for my
tomatos"

Cough once more.

Just make sure you get the one without 
added silver.

> From: DJ Delorie
> 
> "Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@...> writes:
> > I'm looking for higher concentration H2O2 to try my hand at Toner
> > Transfer board etching.
> 
> You don't need it.
> 
> Go to the drug store or supermarket and get a bunch of the generic 3%
> hydrogen peroxide bottles.
> ....

I thought that 3% H2O2 contained too much water to be an effective etchant -
or am I confusing that with H2O2 needed to "replenish" a used etchant
solution?

If so, I assume you just start with fresh Muratic acid and 3% H2O2 rather
than replenishing it?
 
Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

> From: Harvey White
> > ....
> >(BTW:  I’m in Tampa, Florida, USA.  Are there any list members near
> me?)
> 
> Orlando.
> 
> Harvey

Harvey, I'm jealous - If I lived that close to SkyCraft I would be in the
poorhouse :-)

Do you do Toner Transfer?  
Do you use H2O2 and HCL?  If so, what do you use as your source of H2O2?
3%?
 
Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

"Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@...> writes:
> I thought that 3% H2O2 contained too much water to be an effective
> etchant - or am I confusing that with H2O2 needed to "replenish" a
> used etchant solution?

Yes, stronger H2O2 is best for replenishing, although you *can* do it
with weaker stuff if you evaporate off enough water first.  For
starting a new solution, though, the 3% is just right.

> If so, I assume you just start with fresh Muratic acid and 3% H2O2
> rather than replenishing it?

Some people do that, if you don't mind neutralizing the solution and
disposing of it.  If you neutralize it with NaOH you get mostly salt
water, with a little copper in it.

What I did was convert it to a CuCl etchant, which can be regenerated
with an air bubbler, so there's no need to neutralize it or dispose of
it.  http://members.optusnet.com.au/~eseychell/PCB/etching_CuCl/

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:55:21 -0400, you wrote:

>> From: Harvey White
>> > ....
>> >(BTW:  I\ufffdm in Tampa, Florida, USA.  Are there any list members near
>> me?)
>> 
>> Orlando.
>> 
>> Harvey
>
>Harvey, I'm jealous - If I lived that close to SkyCraft I would be in the
>poorhouse :-)

I've got a lot of what they have already, although I did get some good
displays.  Some details and older projects (haven't updated it in a
while) at www.dragonworks.info

>
>Do you do Toner Transfer?  

Yes, Pulsar paper, modified laminator, 0.062 board.  Details are on
the site as well.

>Do you use H2O2 and HCL?  If so, what do you use as your source of H2O2?
>3%?

I haven't done that yet.  I'll probably do that after a bit, use 3%
and go to the local wal-mart and the local Home Despot.

Still using FeCL3.  Still muttering about how to get the boards
registered properly, I've done both photoetching and toner transfer.
Toner transfer has been the double sided boards.  Some are very
pretty, some are throwaways.  Drill with Dremel on a stand using PC
board drills, etc.

They kinda know me at Skycraft.

Not many good deals on the test equipment, often good stuff on parts,
steppers are good at times, lots of things are overpriced, depending.

Between Digikey, Mouser, Electronics Goldmine and Jameco, with a few
stops at Skycraft, I can get most of what I need.

Harvey

>\ufffd
>Cheers,
>
>Chuck Hackett
>"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
>7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
>http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck
>
>
>

Harvey White <madyn@...> writes:
> Still using FeCL3.  Still muttering about how to get the boards
> registered properly, I've done both photoetching and toner transfer.

Registration with photoetch is a LOT easier than with toner transfer,
because you can see through the plots.  I add a few registration marks
on my plots, pre-drill the boards for those marks, and just visually
line up the plots with the holes.  Works every time, and easy to do.

The trick is that you need to design a registration mark that results
in a fine-line crosshair in the final plot.  Since I use negatives,
this means my boards have four copper squares with about 1 mil between
them, resulting in a 1 mil ink crosshair on the final plot.  I line
that up with a 13 mil hole.  I expose one side at a time.

To drill the holes, I just print on plain paper and drill out each
crosshair.

See the thread called "Cool temperature affects of Muriatic Acid and
Peroxide".  While there are some people who swear by the 3% H2O2, I
swear at it. As you have seen in this thread, some will say that 3% is
good enough.  I say Balderdash.  I went to Sallys Beauty Supply.  They
have several strengths there. Don't look for percentages but  volumes.
 I purchased a 30 volume but they sell a 40 as well.   I did a google
search on Sally's Beauty Supply in the Tampa area  and came up with
these phone numbers.
A.	Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 963-0727 - 2 reviews
B.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 933-6671 - 4 reviews
C.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 988-6111 - more
D.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 979-0119 - more
E.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 877-9494 - more
F.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 835-9269 - more
G.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 882-4119 - more
H.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 818-1100 - more
I.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sally.com - (813) 654-2702 - more
J.	
Sally Beauty Supply
 - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 689-3168 - more

I had the same problem you did with what I think was a weak solution
of H2O2.  Last night I etched a 3 by 3 board in 4 minutes. Different
strokes for different folks I guess. Good luck

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@...>
wrote:

>
> I'm looking for higher concentration H2O2 to try my hand at Toner
Transfer
> board etching.
> 
> I did some internet searches for Beauty Supplies (and then Hydrogen
Peroxide
> on their website) but I came up with a bewildering array of creams,
etc. but
> nothing like "30% H2O2 in gallon size", etc.
> 
> Can someone give me a Product Name, Brand Name, and/or product category
> (like: "bulk hair bleach", etc.) that can help me `cut to the chase'
when
> I'm talking to Beauty Supply places or doing Internet searches?  What
> exactly do I ask for?  
> 
> (BTW:  I'm in Tampa, Florida, USA.  Are there any list members near me?)
>  
> Cheers,
> 
> Chuck Hackett
> "Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad
judgment"

> 7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
> http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck
>

One note of caution when using the 30 or 40 "volume" H2O2.
Use it sparingly! During one etching session, I used  too much and had a
very fast etch ~ 1 minute. BUT, it foamed up  so much that it overflowed the
tank and spilled  all over.

Fortunately, I kept a box of Baking Soda handy to neutralize the high acid
spill. It was a real problem to clean up.

SAFETY FIRST!

Myc





On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:04 PM, billshat44 <billshat44@...> wrote:

>   See the thread called "Cool temperature affects of Muriatic Acid and
> Peroxide". While there are some people who swear by the 3% H2O2, I
> swear at it. As you have seen in this thread, some will say that 3% is
> good enough. I say Balderdash. I went to Sallys Beauty Supply. They
> have several strengths there. Don't look for percentages but volumes.
> I purchased a 30 volume but they sell a 40 as well. I did a google
> search on Sally's Beauty Supply in the Tampa area and came up with
> these phone numbers.
> A. Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 963-0727 - 2 reviews
> B.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 933-6671 - 4 reviews
> C.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 988-6111 - more
> D.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 979-0119 - more
> E.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 877-9494 - more
> F.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 835-9269 - more
> G.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 882-4119 - more
> H.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 818-1100 - more
> I.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sally.com - (813) 654-2702 - more
> J.
> Sally Beauty Supply
> - www.sallybeauty.com - (813) 689-3168 - more
>
> I had the same problem you did with what I think was a weak solution
> of H2O2. Last night I etched a 3 by 3 board in 4 minutes. Different
> strokes for different folks I guess. Good luck
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@...>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I'm looking for higher concentration H2O2 to try my hand at Toner
> Transfer
> > board etching.
> >
> > I did some internet searches for Beauty Supplies (and then Hydrogen
> Peroxide
> > on their website) but I came up with a bewildering array of creams,
> etc. but
> > nothing like "30% H2O2 in gallon size", etc.
> >
> > Can someone give me a Product Name, Brand Name, and/or product category
> > (like: "bulk hair bleach", etc.) that can help me `cut to the chase'
> when
> > I'm talking to Beauty Supply places or doing Internet searches? What
> > exactly do I ask for?
> >
> > (BTW: I'm in Tampa, Florida, USA. Are there any list members near me?)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Chuck Hackett
> > "Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad
> judgment"
> > 7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
> > http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck
> >
>
>  
>


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