Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

What size drill bits?

2008-12-29 by Matthew Mucker

All,

I'm new to the DIY-PCB scene. I've just finished my first test etch and am
just overjoyed at the results I was able to achieve my first time out of the
gate.

I now need to look at drilling my boards.  Does anyone have any
recommendations on what drill bit sizes I should get for general
through-hole work?

Given an Eagle .brd file, what can I do to get an idea of the drill bit
sizes I'll need?   I ran the CAM processor and opened up the .dri file for
one of my projects, which appears to be a good start... but how much
tolerance should I allow? If the .dri calls for a .035, a .036, and a .0394
inch drill bit, I assume I can use a .0394 for all of them, right?  (I mean,
that's what... 4 and a half thousandths of an inch there.)

What rules of thumb do you use? What drill bit sizes are your most commonly
used sizes?

Thanks,

-Matthew

Re: What size drill bits?

2008-12-29 by tsescrl

Hello,

For example:
0.6mm = 24 mils
0.7mm = 27 mils
0.8mm = 32 mils
0.9mm = 35 mils
1.0mm = 39 mils
etc...
Convertion is: mm/0.0254 = mils

But, it si very necesary to prepare your components in your library
file to obtain a good result, a correct diameter from your mecanical
diameter dimmension, the part off Eagle are just for example, not sure
they are correct!!!

0.9mm, 35 mills are commonly use

0.8mm, 32 mils for IC, resitor, capa etc...

Patrick






--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Mucker" <matthew@...>
wrote:
>
> All,
> 
> I'm new to the DIY-PCB scene. I've just finished my first test etch
and am
> just overjoyed at the results I was able to achieve my first time
out of the
> gate.
> 
> I now need to look at drilling my boards.  Does anyone have any
> recommendations on what drill bit sizes I should get for general
> through-hole work?
> 
> Given an Eagle .brd file, what can I do to get an idea of the drill bit
> sizes I'll need?   I ran the CAM processor and opened up the .dri
file for
> one of my projects, which appears to be a good start... but how much
> tolerance should I allow? If the .dri calls for a .035, a .036, and
a .0394
> inch drill bit, I assume I can use a .0394 for all of them, right? 
(I mean,
> that's what... 4 and a half thousandths of an inch there.)
> 
> What rules of thumb do you use? What drill bit sizes are your most
commonly

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> used sizes?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Matthew
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

2008-12-29 by JanRwl@AOL.COM

In a message dated 12/28/2008 7:12:23 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
matthew@... writes:

I  assume I can use a .0394 for all of them, right?


 
Right.  If you will be using a HSS bit, be prepared to SHARPEN it  every 
couple dozen holes.  If you can get some carbide "PCB Drill-bits"  with the 
industry-standard 1/8" shank, buy at least ten to start with, as you  WILL bust 'em 
very rapidly until you learn techniques to keep the board still  under the 
drill, proper feed-rate, RPM, etc.  
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

2008-12-29 by leon Heller

----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "Matthew Mucker" <matthew@...>
To: <homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:11 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?


> All,
>
> I'm new to the DIY-PCB scene. I've just finished my first test etch and am
> just overjoyed at the results I was able to achieve my first time out of 
> the
> gate.
>
> I now need to look at drilling my boards.  Does anyone have any
> recommendations on what drill bit sizes I should get for general
> through-hole work?
>
> Given an Eagle .brd file, what can I do to get an idea of the drill bit
> sizes I'll need?   I ran the CAM processor and opened up the .dri file for
> one of my projects, which appears to be a good start... but how much
> tolerance should I allow? If the .dri calls for a .035, a .036, and a 
> .0394
> inch drill bit, I assume I can use a .0394 for all of them, right?  (I 
> mean,
> that's what... 4 and a half thousandths of an inch there.)
>
> What rules of thumb do you use? What drill bit sizes are your most 
> commonly
> used sizes?

I mostly use 0.7 mm, and 0.6 mm for vias.

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

2008-12-29 by John Honniball

--- On Mon, 29/12/08, Matthew Mucker <matthew@...> wrote:
> I now need to look at drilling my boards.  Does anyone have any
> recommendations on what drill bit sizes I should get for general
> through-hole work?

I use 0.8mm for IC sockets, resistor and capacitor leads, and small
transistor leads.  For larger pins like power transistors, voltage
regulators and the square pins of DIL header connectors, I use
1.0mm.  It might be useful, for some types of leads, to have a
slightly larger drill available, maybe 1.2mm.  And as others
have said, go for the tungsten carbide drills, as they are hard
enough to use on fibreglass PCBs.  I use the type with a 3mm shank,
and I use them in a collet-type chuck in a mini drill.

-- 
John Honniball

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

2008-12-29 by kabowers@NorthState.net

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:52:13 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>
>I use 0.8mm for IC sockets, resistor and capacitor leads, and small
>transistor leads.  For larger pins like power transistors, voltage
>regulators and the square pins of DIL header connectors, I use
>1.0mm.  It might be useful, for some types of leads, to have a
>slightly larger drill available, maybe 1.2mm.  And as others
>have said, go for the tungsten carbide drills, as they are hard
>enough to use on fibreglass PCBs.  I use the type with a 3mm shank,
>and I use them in a collet-type chuck in a mini drill.

These might be of interest:

href="http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15746"

href="http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15758"

No interest, just another customer.

Re: What size drill bits?

2008-12-30 by Dennis

Hi Matthew,
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Mucker" <matthew@...> 
wrote:
> I'm new to the DIY-PCB scene. I've just finished my first test
> etch and am just overjoyed at the results I was able to achieve
> my first time out of the gate.

Congrats.  Have you tried ink jet transparencies for transfer?  I 
tried paper with mixed results.  With inkjet transparencies, there's 
less effort involved to prep the board for etching.  After ironing, 
just let the transparency cool slightly and then start lifting from 
one corner.  If some toner hasn't transferred, just replace the 
transparency and iron more; assuming you haven't removed the 
transparencly completely so alignment doesn't become an issue.  
Another advantage with iron/transparency is you can monitor toner 
melting and apply heat/pressure where needed.  I like to almost close 
lead holes so I can use them as pilot holes for the drill bits.

With transferred "properly", there's no toner left on the 
transparenc; pictures in my album.  Still should do the 
toothbrush/soap cleaning to remove any residue from the transparency, 
but no paper fibers to deal with.

As with paper, not all inkjet transparencies are equal.  I'm using 
some HP inkjet transparency that I bought in bulk.

The only downside I've seen is minor pitting because toner coverage 
isn't as good on transparencies; but it's purely cosmetic.  I go over 
ground planes with a Sharpie if it looks like pitting will be ugly.

I've tried running inkjet transparencies through several laser 
printers (HP, Lexmark, and Xerox) and have never had a problem with 
the printer getting jammed or otherwise damaged; YMMV.

> I now need to look at drilling my boards.  Does anyone have any
> recommendations on what drill bit sizes I should get for general
> through-hole work?

I prefer to use #69 (0.0292") for most holes, #65 (0.035") for 
headers, and #60 (0.040") for trimmers.  These sizes give a little 
friction on the leads so they don't fall out so easily when soldering.

Saw the link that someone posted.  Also take a look at 
drillbitcity.com.  They have assortments and shipping in the US is 
better; a few dollars for 20 bits with holders vs. $10 for that other 
place.  They have 10 piece assortment for sizes 60-69 that should be 
around $11 shipped in the US.  I'm not affiliated with them; just a 
satisfied customer.  These are resharpened bits, as are all of my 
other bits.

Regards,
Dennis

What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by thb201

I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.  Just out of curiosity, to get an idea, I measured the lead diameters of a wide variety of components.  Surprisingly the diameters are all over the place - everywhere from 0.016" up to 0.032" in increments of 0.001" for the most common sized components.  I would like to stick to maybe just three sizes of drill bits to (hopefully) cover most parts I'll come across.  I'm thinking maybe 0.035" (#65 bit), 0.025" (#72 bit) and 0.020" (#76 bit) would cover most eventualities.

Are these three sizes workable or am I limiting myself too much?  I don't do a lot of PC boards so if I can keep down the number of sizes on hand this would be a plus.

(I'm in Canada so I'm limited to what I can get here, usually from machine tool suppliers like KBC.)

Cheers,
John

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

John,

I just went through this myself. It sounds like you have figured out what
you need. I ended up spending $60 on a nice selection based on what my
current circuit board needed.

Let me ask a related question - what do you have to drive them? Assume you
want to run at 200 surface feet per minute. Then the needed RPMs equals
200/(0.26 x D) where D is the diameter of the drill in inches. Given your
0.020" drill you are looking at 38,500 RPM which is about what a Dremel(r)
puts out. The mount must have very little side play because that can snap
these tiny drills too.

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of thb201
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:59 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a few
sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.  Just
out of curiosity, to get an idea, I measured the lead diameters of a wide
variety of components.  Surprisingly the diameters are all over the place -
everywhere from 0.016" up to 0.032" in increments of 0.001" for the most
common sized components.  I would like to stick to maybe just three sizes of
drill bits to (hopefully) cover most parts I'll come across.  I'm thinking
maybe 0.035" (#65 bit), 0.025" (#72 bit) and 0.020" (#76 bit) would cover
most eventualities.

Are these three sizes workable or am I limiting myself too much?  I don't do
a lot of PC boards so if I can keep down the number of sizes on hand this
would be a plus.

(I'm in Canada so I'm limited to what I can get here, usually from machine
tool suppliers like KBC.)

Cheers,
John

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by Mitch Davis

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 <hudakjm@...> wrote:
> I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a few
>sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.

Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly
brittle.  The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
I have used a normal drill press with good results.

Mitch.

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by jackinnj

preset drill sizes from PCBExpress: .008, .014, .020, .025, .029, .033, .036, .040, .043, .046, .053, .061, .067, .080, .087, .093, .100, .110, .125, .141, .151, .167, .193, .251 (.008 available for 4-6 layers only).

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201  wrote:
> > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a few
> >sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
>

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201  wrote:
> > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a few
> >sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
> 
> Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly
> brittle.  The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> 
> Mitch.
>

I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon

I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..

My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..

I have been through several methods of drilling, including a commercial drill press,  a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC drilling machine and ended up with the following

a pulley at ceiling height

a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole

the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, away from the board

the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted..  and it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..

this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..

using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before breaking the bit..

I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period

thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things like clamping and regictration are included.

Chris

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

Chris,

Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be drilled and
quick action.

I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this work. I
have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)

I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the pulley or
is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201  wrote:
> > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a 
> >few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
> 
> Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> brittle.  The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> 
> Mitch.
>

I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon

I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..

My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..

I have been through several methods of drilling, including a commercial
drill press,  a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC drilling machine
and ended up with the following

a pulley at ceiling height

a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole

the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it
slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, away from
the board

the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted..  and it it
this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..

this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..

using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before breaking
the bit..

I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period

thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things like
clamping and regictration are included.

Chris

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by chris

Rick,

there is a rope (or string really..  I use light switch pull cord)
the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill container with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the aluminium pole..

the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the end..  The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string between the pulley and the top of the pole

the role of the pole (rhyme  :-) )  is partly to damp oscillation.. 
I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to be longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the bench

In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without fouling on the pulley..  but what I put together works so I'm loath to fiddle with it..

An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..

I've put a picture in the     photos  spiyda   drill


Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Chris,
> 
> Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be drilled and
> quick action.
> 
> I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this work. I
> have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> 
> I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the pulley or
> is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis  wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201  wrote:
> > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a 
> > >few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
> > 
> > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > brittle.  The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > 
> > Mitch.
> >
> 
> I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> 
> I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> 
> My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> 
> I have been through several methods of drilling, including a commercial
> drill press,  a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC drilling machine
> and ended up with the following
> 
> a pulley at ceiling height
> 
> a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> 
> the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it
> slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, away from
> the board
> 
> the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted..  and it it
> this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> 
> this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> 
> using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before breaking
> the bit..
> 
> I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> 
> thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things like
> clamping and regictration are included.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

Chris,

I looked at the picture and am now more confused. Can you take the set up
from the side?

Thanks,

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:32 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Rick,

there is a rope (or string really..  I use light switch pull cord) the
string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill container with nuts
and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the aluminium pole..

the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the end..  The
way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string between the pulley and
the top of the pole

the role of the pole (rhyme  :-) )  is partly to damp oscillation.. 
I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to be
longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the bench

In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without fouling on
the pulley..  but what I put together works so I'm loath to fiddle with it..

An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..

I've put a picture in the     photos  spiyda   drill


Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:
>
> Chris,
> 
> Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be drilled 
> and quick action.
> 
> I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this 
> work. I have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> 
> I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the 
> pulley or is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod?
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Davis  wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201  wrote:
> > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a 
> > >few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
> > 
> > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > brittle.  The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > 
> > Mitch.
> >
> 
> I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> 
> I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> 
> My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> 
> I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> commercial drill press,  a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC 
> drilling machine and ended up with the following
> 
> a pulley at ceiling height
> 
> a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> 
> the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it 
> slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, away 
> from the board
> 
> the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted..  and it 
> it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> 
> this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> 
> using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before 
> breaking the bit..
> 
> I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> 
> thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things like 
> clamping and regictration are included.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by thb201

Rick:

I take it then you approve of my selection of sizes ;-)

Sorry, I should have mentioned in my post that I have several Dremels plus the small Dremel drill press type holder.  Hopefully I should be OK in that department.  I have used it in the past for drilling PC boards with HSS bits without issue but this would be my first attempt at using carbide bits so I hope there won't be too much side play.  The holder is an older one, about 20+ years old.  I thought I read somewhere that their newer ones aren't as well made.  

I'm thinking in terms of getting some carbide bits plus a bunch of HSS bits as backup just in case.  KBC carries "made in the U.S." carbide bits with 1/8" shanks for only $4.75 a piece.  Their small HSS bits are either $0.47 (probably far eastern) or $1.61 (probably U.S. made) each depending on finish, so I could get a bunch of those without breaking the bank.

Cheers,
John  

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> John,
> 
> I just went through this myself. It sounds like you have figured out what
> you need. I ended up spending $60 on a nice selection based on what my
> current circuit board needed.
> 
> Let me ask a related question - what do you have to drive them? Assume you
> want to run at 200 surface feet per minute. Then the needed RPMs equals
> 200/(0.26 x D) where D is the diameter of the drill in inches. Given your
> 0.020" drill you are looking at 38,500 RPM which is about what a Dremel(r)
> puts out. The mount must have very little side play because that can snap
> these tiny drills too.
> 
> Rick

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by Jeff Heiss

I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I viewed the
picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just hanging from the
pulley like a plumb bob?

 

Jeff

 

  _____

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

 

  

Rick,

there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord)
the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill container with
nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the aluminium pole..

the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the end.. The
way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string between the pulley and
the top of the pole

the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to be
longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the bench

In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without fouling on
the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath to fiddle with it..

An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..

I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
>
> Chris,
> 
> Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be drilled and
> quick action.
> 
> I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this work.
I
> have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> 
> I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the pulley
or
> is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , Mitch Davis wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a 
> > >few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
> > 
> > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > 
> > Mitch.
> >
> 
> I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> 
> I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> 
> My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> 
> I have been through several methods of drilling, including a commercial
> drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC drilling machine
> and ended up with the following
> 
> a pulley at ceiling height
> 
> a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> 
> the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it
> slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, away from
> the board
> 
> the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and it it
> this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> 
> this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> 
> using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
breaking
> the bit..
> 
> I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> 
> thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things like
> clamping and regictration are included.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-13 by Rick Sparber

John,

I only recently started to use these tiny tungsten carbide end mills. They
work much better than twist drills and I've been told that they don't dull
nearly as fast.

The end mills I bought came from 

https://www.drillbitcity.com/catalogue/10_piece.asp

I bought 5 different sizes in sets of 10. They came custom labeled in one
box. Since they are re-sharpend, the price is much less than new yet they
work great. I was pleased with this company and will use them in the future.

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of thb201
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:34 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Rick:

I take it then you approve of my selection of sizes ;-)

Sorry, I should have mentioned in my post that I have several Dremels plus
the small Dremel drill press type holder.  Hopefully I should be OK in that
department.  I have used it in the past for drilling PC boards with HSS bits
without issue but this would be my first attempt at using carbide bits so I
hope there won't be too much side play.  The holder is an older one, about
20+ years old.  I thought I read somewhere that their newer ones aren't as
well made.  

I'm thinking in terms of getting some carbide bits plus a bunch of HSS bits
as backup just in case.  KBC carries "made in the U.S." carbide bits with
1/8" shanks for only $4.75 a piece.  Their small HSS bits are either $0.47
(probably far eastern) or $1.61 (probably U.S. made) each depending on
finish, so I could get a bunch of those without breaking the bank.

Cheers,
John  

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:
>
> John,
> 
> I just went through this myself. It sounds like you have figured out 
> what you need. I ended up spending $60 on a nice selection based on 
> what my current circuit board needed.
> 
> Let me ask a related question - what do you have to drive them? Assume 
> you want to run at 200 surface feet per minute. Then the needed RPMs 
> equals
> 200/(0.26 x D) where D is the diameter of the drill in inches. Given 
> your 0.020" drill you are looking at 38,500 RPM which is about what a 
> Dremel(r) puts out. The mount must have very little side play because 
> that can snap these tiny drills too.
> 
> Rick

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-14 by chris

Sorry  second pic added..

in photos ... spiyda drill2

it just hangs like a plumb bob

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I viewed the
> picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just hanging from the
> pulley like a plumb bob?
> 
>  
> 
> Jeff
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@...m]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> Rick,
> 
> there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord)
> the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill container with
> nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the aluminium pole..
> 
> the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the end.. The
> way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string between the pulley and
> the top of the pole
> 
> the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to be
> longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the bench
> 
> In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without fouling on
> the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath to fiddle with it..
> 
> An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> 
> I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> >
> > Chris,
> > 
> > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be drilled and
> > quick action.
> > 
> > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this work.
> I
> > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > 
> > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the pulley
> or
> > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > 
> > Rick
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  ]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a 
> > > >few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
> > > 
> > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > 
> > > Mitch.
> > >
> > 
> > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > 
> > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > 
> > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > 
> > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a commercial
> > drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC drilling machine
> > and ended up with the following
> > 
> > a pulley at ceiling height
> > 
> > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > 
> > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it
> > slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, away from
> > the board
> > 
> > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and it it
> > this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > 
> > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > 
> > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> breaking
> > the bit..
> > 
> > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > 
> > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things like
> > clamping and regictration are included.
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-14 by chris

and a quick video.. of the counterbalanced pulley mounted drill

http://youtu.be/flufbYNz48c

you can see the slight wobble that would be damped by a longer pole...

but it doesn't seem to break bits even as it is..

ps  thats my lot..  if I haven't explained it well enough now..  I never will !

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chris"  wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Sorry  second pic added..
> 
> in photos ... spiyda drill2
> 
> it just hangs like a plumb bob
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
> >
> > I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I viewed the
> > picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just hanging from the
> > pulley like a plumb bob?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   _____  
> > 
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > Rick,
> > 
> > there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord)
> > the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill container with
> > nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the aluminium pole..
> > 
> > the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the end.. The
> > way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string between the pulley and
> > the top of the pole
> > 
> > the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> > I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to be
> > longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the bench
> > 
> > In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without fouling on
> > the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath to fiddle with it..
> > 
> > An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> > 
> > I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > > 
> > > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be drilled and
> > > quick action.
> > > 
> > > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this work.
> > I
> > > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > > 
> > > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the pulley
> > or
> > > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > > 
> > > Rick
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  ]
> > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > 
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just a 
> > > > >few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide types.
> > > > 
> > > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > > 
> > > > Mitch.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > > 
> > > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > > 
> > > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > > 
> > > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a commercial
> > > drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC drilling machine
> > > and ended up with the following
> > > 
> > > a pulley at ceiling height
> > > 
> > > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > > 
> > > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it
> > > slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, away from
> > > the board
> > > 
> > > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and it it
> > > this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > > 
> > > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > > 
> > > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> > breaking
> > > the bit..
> > > 
> > > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > > 
> > > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things like
> > > clamping and regictration are included.
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > Photos:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-14 by Rick Sparber

Chris,

Damn impressive!

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:17 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?


and a quick video.. of the counterbalanced pulley mounted drill

http://youtu.be/flufbYNz48c

you can see the slight wobble that would be damped by a longer pole...

but it doesn't seem to break bits even as it is..

ps  thats my lot..  if I haven't explained it well enough now..  I never
will !

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chris"  wrote:
>
> Sorry  second pic added..
> 
> in photos ... spiyda drill2
> 
> it just hangs like a plumb bob
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
> >
> > I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I 
> > viewed the picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just 
> > hanging from the pulley like a plumb bob?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   _____
> > 
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > Rick,
> > 
> > there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord) 
> > the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill 
> > container with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the
aluminium pole..
> > 
> > the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the 
> > end.. The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string 
> > between the pulley and the top of the pole
> > 
> > the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> > I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to 
> > be longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the 
> > bench
> > 
> > In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without 
> > fouling on the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath to
fiddle with it..
> > 
> > An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> > 
> > I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > > 
> > > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be 
> > > drilled and quick action.
> > > 
> > > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this
work.
> > I
> > > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > > 
> > > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the 
> > > pulley
> > or
> > > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > > 
> > > Rick
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  ]
> > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get 
> > > > >just a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive
carbide types.
> > > > 
> > > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > > 
> > > > Mitch.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > > 
> > > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > > 
> > > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > > 
> > > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> > > commercial drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a 
> > > CNC drilling machine and ended up with the following
> > > 
> > > a pulley at ceiling height
> > > 
> > > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > > 
> > > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving 
> > > it slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes 
> > > upward, away from the board
> > > 
> > > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and 
> > > it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > > 
> > > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > > 
> > > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> > breaking
> > > the bit..
> > > 
> > > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > > 
> > > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things 
> > > like clamping and regictration are included.
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, 
> > > and
> > Photos:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-14 by Rick Sparber

Chris,

It would be really cool if it could be gyro stabilized. 

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:17 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?


and a quick video.. of the counterbalanced pulley mounted drill

http://youtu.be/flufbYNz48c

you can see the slight wobble that would be damped by a longer pole...

but it doesn't seem to break bits even as it is..

ps  thats my lot..  if I haven't explained it well enough now..  I never
will !

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chris"  wrote:
>
> Sorry  second pic added..
> 
> in photos ... spiyda drill2
> 
> it just hangs like a plumb bob
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
> >
> > I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I 
> > viewed the picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just 
> > hanging from the pulley like a plumb bob?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   _____
> > 
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > Rick,
> > 
> > there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord) 
> > the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill 
> > container with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the
aluminium pole..
> > 
> > the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the 
> > end.. The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string 
> > between the pulley and the top of the pole
> > 
> > the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> > I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to 
> > be longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the 
> > bench
> > 
> > In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without 
> > fouling on the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath to
fiddle with it..
> > 
> > An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> > 
> > I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > > 
> > > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be 
> > > drilled and quick action.
> > > 
> > > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this
work.
> > I
> > > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > > 
> > > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the 
> > > pulley
> > or
> > > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > > 
> > > Rick
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  ]
> > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get 
> > > > >just a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive
carbide types.
> > > > 
> > > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > > 
> > > > Mitch.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > > 
> > > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > > 
> > > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > > 
> > > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> > > commercial drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a 
> > > CNC drilling machine and ended up with the following
> > > 
> > > a pulley at ceiling height
> > > 
> > > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > > 
> > > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving 
> > > it slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes 
> > > upward, away from the board
> > > 
> > > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and 
> > > it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > > 
> > > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > > 
> > > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> > breaking
> > > the bit..
> > > 
> > > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > > 
> > > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things 
> > > like clamping and regictration are included.
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, 
> > > and
> > Photos:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-14 by Rick Sparber

Chris,

Yes, the second picture really helps.

Thanks,

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:02 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Sorry  second pic added..

in photos ... spiyda drill2

it just hangs like a plumb bob

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
>
> I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I viewed 
> the picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just hanging 
> from the pulley like a plumb bob?
> 
>  
> 
> Jeff
> 
>  
> 
>   _____
> 
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> Rick,
> 
> there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord) the 
> string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill container 
> with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the aluminium
pole..
> 
> the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the 
> end.. The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string 
> between the pulley and the top of the pole
> 
> the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to be 
> longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the 
> bench
> 
> In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without 
> fouling on the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath to
fiddle with it..
> 
> An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> 
> I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> >
> > Chris,
> > 
> > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be 
> > drilled and quick action.
> > 
> > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this
work.
> I
> > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > 
> > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the 
> > pulley
> or
> > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > 
> > Rick
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  ]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> 
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just 
> > > >a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide
types.
> > > 
> > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > 
> > > Mitch.
> > >
> > 
> > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > 
> > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > 
> > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > 
> > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> > commercial drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC 
> > drilling machine and ended up with the following
> > 
> > a pulley at ceiling height
> > 
> > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > 
> > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it 
> > slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, 
> > away from the board
> > 
> > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and 
> > it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > 
> > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > 
> > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> breaking
> > the bit..
> > 
> > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > 
> > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things 
> > like clamping and regictration are included.
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-27 by chris

Just a footnote ...

Having posted some pics of my hand drilling jig/aid thingy I decided to update it a bit with some improvements I've been meaning to make for the last several years !  (my normal motto is, "if its not broke, don't fix it"!..  but the proxxon drill finally died, so I took that as an excuse)

a) changed the counterweight to a solid steel weight instead of a plastic pot of old nuts and bolts..

b) fitted a new proxxon IBS/E drill as the old IB/E had given up the ghost

c) lengthened the support rod to (successfully) reduce the small oscillations at the drill tip

d) added an LED light to the side of the drill  (6 x 0.5Watt White LEDs..  a bit heath robinson but I had the parts to hand)

e) instead of drilling and tapping a hole in the proxxon casting to fix, since the new one is under warranty, used a cable tie to mount it

The result is that it is now faster, easier to hit the precise centre of the etched hole..  and I can drill more holes before my 57 year old eyes get tired .. 

I managed about 1500 holes in one half hour sitting this afternoon before my eyes got tired..

a couple of pics in the photos spiyda folder

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Chris,
> 
> Yes, the second picture really helps.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:02 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
> Sorry  second pic added..
> 
> in photos ... spiyda drill2
> 
> it just hangs like a plumb bob
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
> >
> > I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I viewed 
> > the picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just hanging 
> > from the pulley like a plumb bob?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   _____
> > 
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > Rick,
> > 
> > there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord) the 
> > string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill container 
> > with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to the aluminium
> pole..
> > 
> > the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the 
> > end.. The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string 
> > between the pulley and the top of the pole
> > 
> > the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> > I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to be 
> > longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the 
> > bench
> > 
> > In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without 
> > fouling on the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath to
> fiddle with it..
> > 
> > An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> > 
> > I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > > 
> > > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be 
> > > drilled and quick action.
> > > 
> > > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make this
> work.
> > I
> > > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > > 
> > > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the 
> > > pulley
> > or
> > > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > > 
> > > Rick
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  ]
> > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get just 
> > > > >a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive carbide
> types.
> > > > 
> > > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > > 
> > > > Mitch.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > > 
> > > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > > 
> > > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > > 
> > > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> > > commercial drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a CNC 
> > > drilling machine and ended up with the following
> > > 
> > > a pulley at ceiling height
> > > 
> > > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > > 
> > > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving it 
> > > slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes upward, 
> > > away from the board
> > > 
> > > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and 
> > > it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > > 
> > > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > > 
> > > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> > breaking
> > > the bit..
> > > 
> > > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > > 
> > > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things 
> > > like clamping and regictration are included.
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > Photos:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-28 by Rick Sparber

Chris,

I was a bit confused about which pictures you were talking about. The first
few showed an arrangement to hold the proxxon that involved some boards and
a spring. I thought that was very good. But your text didn't match those
pictures so I next looked at the last pictures in your file and see an
upgrade to the system you talked about last. 

Is the key difference here that you can swing the proxxon around without
moving the board given how it hangs. I can see how the first pictures show a
machine similar to a drill press.

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:31 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?




Just a footnote ...

Having posted some pics of my hand drilling jig/aid thingy I decided to
update it a bit with some improvements I've been meaning to make for the
last several years !  (my normal motto is, "if its not broke, don't fix
it"!..  but the proxxon drill finally died, so I took that as an excuse)

a) changed the counterweight to a solid steel weight instead of a plastic
pot of old nuts and bolts..

b) fitted a new proxxon IBS/E drill as the old IB/E had given up the ghost

c) lengthened the support rod to (successfully) reduce the small
oscillations at the drill tip

d) added an LED light to the side of the drill  (6 x 0.5Watt White LEDs..  a
bit heath robinson but I had the parts to hand)

e) instead of drilling and tapping a hole in the proxxon casting to fix,
since the new one is under warranty, used a cable tie to mount it

The result is that it is now faster, easier to hit the precise centre of the
etched hole..  and I can drill more holes before my 57 year old eyes get
tired .. 

I managed about 1500 holes in one half hour sitting this afternoon before my
eyes got tired..

a couple of pics in the photos spiyda folder

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:
>
> Chris,
> 
> Yes, the second picture really helps.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:02 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
> Sorry  second pic added..
> 
> in photos ... spiyda drill2
> 
> it just hangs like a plumb bob
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
> >
> > I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I 
> > viewed the picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just 
> > hanging from the pulley like a plumb bob?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   _____
> > 
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > Rick,
> > 
> > there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord) 
> > the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill 
> > container with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to 
> > the aluminium
> pole..
> > 
> > the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the 
> > end.. The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string 
> > between the pulley and the top of the pole
> > 
> > the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> > I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to 
> > be longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the 
> > bench
> > 
> > In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without 
> > fouling on the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath 
> > to
> fiddle with it..
> > 
> > An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> > 
> > I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > > 
> > > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be 
> > > drilled and quick action.
> > > 
> > > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make 
> > > this
> work.
> > I
> > > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > > 
> > > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the 
> > > pulley
> > or
> > > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > > 
> > > Rick
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  ]
> > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get 
> > > > >just a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive 
> > > > >carbide
> types.
> > > > 
> > > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > > 
> > > > Mitch.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > > 
> > > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > > 
> > > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > > 
> > > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> > > commercial drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a 
> > > CNC drilling machine and ended up with the following
> > > 
> > > a pulley at ceiling height
> > > 
> > > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > > 
> > > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving 
> > > it slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes 
> > > upward, away from the board
> > > 
> > > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and 
> > > it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > > 
> > > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > > 
> > > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> > breaking
> > > the bit..
> > > 
> > > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > > 
> > > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things 
> > > like clamping and regictration are included.
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, 
> > > and
> > Photos:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-28 by chris

Rick,

the drill press type tool was seven years ago.. 
after that I went to a CNC drilling machine based on a micro mill

the latest is the proxxon hanging from the pulley, the last two pictures in the album..  'proxxon1'  and 'proxxon2'

This setup gives the fastest and most accurate holes of the three by far..

There are a whole lot of reasons it works better..

the CNC machine could not compensate for size variations in the boards due to temperature variations in the toner transfer process.

the drill press arrangement was very solid..  if the positioning was half a hole out, it would drill a hole half a hole out..

the hand held suspended arrangement solves both of these problems.. the drill wanders into the centre of the hole all by itself..

by the way, the pulley is the same as in the 'drill1' and 'drill2' pictures

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Chris,
> 
> I was a bit confused about which pictures you were talking about. The first
> few showed an arrangement to hold the proxxon that involved some boards and
> a spring. I thought that was very good. But your text didn't match those
> pictures so I next looked at the last pictures in your file and see an
> upgrade to the system you talked about last. 
> 
> Is the key difference here that you can swing the proxxon around without
> moving the board given how it hangs. I can see how the first pictures show a
> machine similar to a drill press.
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:31 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a footnote ...
> 
> Having posted some pics of my hand drilling jig/aid thingy I decided to
> update it a bit with some improvements I've been meaning to make for the
> last several years !  (my normal motto is, "if its not broke, don't fix
> it"!..  but the proxxon drill finally died, so I took that as an excuse)
> 
> a) changed the counterweight to a solid steel weight instead of a plastic
> pot of old nuts and bolts..
> 
> b) fitted a new proxxon IBS/E drill as the old IB/E had given up the ghost
> 
> c) lengthened the support rod to (successfully) reduce the small
> oscillations at the drill tip
> 
> d) added an LED light to the side of the drill  (6 x 0.5Watt White LEDs..  a
> bit heath robinson but I had the parts to hand)
> 
> e) instead of drilling and tapping a hole in the proxxon casting to fix,
> since the new one is under warranty, used a cable tie to mount it
> 
> The result is that it is now faster, easier to hit the precise centre of the
> etched hole..  and I can drill more holes before my 57 year old eyes get
> tired .. 
> 
> I managed about 1500 holes in one half hour sitting this afternoon before my
> eyes got tired..
> 
> a couple of pics in the photos spiyda folder
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:
> >
> > Chris,
> > 
> > Yes, the second picture really helps.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Rick
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:02 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> > Sorry  second pic added..
> > 
> > in photos ... spiyda drill2
> > 
> > it just hangs like a plumb bob
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I 
> > > viewed the picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just 
> > > hanging from the pulley like a plumb bob?
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Jeff
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >   _____
> > > 
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > Rick,
> > > 
> > > there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord) 
> > > the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill 
> > > container with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to 
> > > the aluminium
> > pole..
> > > 
> > > the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the 
> > > end.. The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string 
> > > between the pulley and the top of the pole
> > > 
> > > the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> > > I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to 
> > > be longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under the 
> > > bench
> > > 
> > > In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without 
> > > fouling on the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath 
> > > to
> > fiddle with it..
> > > 
> > > An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> > > 
> > > I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Chris,
> > > > 
> > > > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be 
> > > > drilled and quick action.
> > > > 
> > > > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make 
> > > > this
> > work.
> > > I
> > > > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > > > 
> > > > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on the 
> > > > pulley
> > > or
> > > > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > > > 
> > > > Rick
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > >  ]
> > > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > >  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get 
> > > > > >just a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more expensive 
> > > > > >carbide
> > types.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are amazingly 
> > > > > brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*, they're gone.
> > > > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your hand.
> > > > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Mitch.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > > > 
> > > > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > > > 
> > > > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or so..
> > > > 
> > > > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> > > > commercial drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a 
> > > > CNC drilling machine and ended up with the following
> > > > 
> > > > a pulley at ceiling height
> > > > 
> > > > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium pole
> > > > 
> > > > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight giving 
> > > > it slightly negative weight so that when you let go it goes 
> > > > upward, away from the board
> > > > 
> > > > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. and 
> > > > it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > > > 
> > > > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm strain..
> > > > 
> > > > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can before
> > > breaking
> > > > the bit..
> > > > 
> > > > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > > > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > > > 
> > > > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things 
> > > > like clamping and regictration are included.
> > > > 
> > > > Chris
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, 
> > > > and
> > > Photos:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-29 by Rick Sparber

Chris,

You are a man after my own heart! I'm a real sucker for simple, elegant
solutions to difficult problems. The fact that you can beat CNC with a
dangling drill brings a big smile to my mouth.

Thanks,

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 4:42 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Rick,

the drill press type tool was seven years ago.. 
after that I went to a CNC drilling machine based on a micro mill

the latest is the proxxon hanging from the pulley, the last two pictures in
the album..  'proxxon1'  and 'proxxon2'

This setup gives the fastest and most accurate holes of the three by far..

There are a whole lot of reasons it works better..

the CNC machine could not compensate for size variations in the boards due
to temperature variations in the toner transfer process.

the drill press arrangement was very solid..  if the positioning was half a
hole out, it would drill a hole half a hole out..

the hand held suspended arrangement solves both of these problems.. the
drill wanders into the centre of the hole all by itself..

by the way, the pulley is the same as in the 'drill1' and 'drill2' pictures

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:
>
> Chris,
> 
> I was a bit confused about which pictures you were talking about. The 
> first few showed an arrangement to hold the proxxon that involved some 
> boards and a spring. I thought that was very good. But your text 
> didn't match those pictures so I next looked at the last pictures in 
> your file and see an upgrade to the system you talked about last.
> 
> Is the key difference here that you can swing the proxxon around 
> without moving the board given how it hangs. I can see how the first 
> pictures show a machine similar to a drill press.
> 
> Rick
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:31 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a footnote ...
> 
> Having posted some pics of my hand drilling jig/aid thingy I decided 
> to update it a bit with some improvements I've been meaning to make 
> for the last several years !  (my normal motto is, "if its not broke, 
> don't fix it"!..  but the proxxon drill finally died, so I took that 
> as an excuse)
> 
> a) changed the counterweight to a solid steel weight instead of a 
> plastic pot of old nuts and bolts..
> 
> b) fitted a new proxxon IBS/E drill as the old IB/E had given up the 
> ghost
> 
> c) lengthened the support rod to (successfully) reduce the small 
> oscillations at the drill tip
> 
> d) added an LED light to the side of the drill  (6 x 0.5Watt White 
> LEDs..  a bit heath robinson but I had the parts to hand)
> 
> e) instead of drilling and tapping a hole in the proxxon casting to 
> fix, since the new one is under warranty, used a cable tie to mount it
> 
> The result is that it is now faster, easier to hit the precise centre 
> of the etched hole..  and I can drill more holes before my 57 year old 
> eyes get tired ..
> 
> I managed about 1500 holes in one half hour sitting this afternoon 
> before my eyes got tired..
> 
> a couple of pics in the photos spiyda folder
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber"  wrote:
> >
> > Chris,
> > 
> > Yes, the second picture really helps.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Rick
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of chris
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:02 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > 
> > Sorry  second pic added..
> > 
> > in photos ... spiyda drill2
> > 
> > it just hangs like a plumb bob
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Heiss"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to understand your setup but I am confused too.  I 
> > > viewed the picture.  Is the drill/pole on a slide?  Or is it just 
> > > hanging from the pulley like a plumb bob?
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Jeff
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >   _____
> > > 
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:32 AM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > Rick,
> > > 
> > > there is a rope (or string really.. I use light switch pull cord) 
> > > the string goes from the counterweight (which is an old pill 
> > > container with nuts and bolts in it), over the pulley and down to 
> > > the aluminium
> > pole..
> > > 
> > > the pole is about 3 feet long with the proxxon frmly fixed to the 
> > > end.. The way I have it rigged, there is 2 foot clear of string 
> > > between the pulley and the top of the pole
> > > 
> > > the role of the pole (rhyme :-) ) is partly to damp oscillation.. 
> > > I started with about a foot long and quickly realised in needed to 
> > > be longer, the aluminium pole was just a bit of scrap from under 
> > > the bench
> > > 
> > > In retrospect, the pole needs to be as long as possible without 
> > > fouling on the pulley.. but what I put together works so I'm loath 
> > > to
> > fiddle with it..
> > > 
> > > An old fishing pole would probably be ideal..
> > > 
> > > I've put a picture in the photos spiyda drill
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com  , "Rick Sparber" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Chris,
> > > > 
> > > > Elegantly simple! You get a very clear view of the place to be 
> > > > drilled and quick action.
> > > > 
> > > > I sounds like it doesn't take long to develop the skill to make 
> > > > this
> > work.
> > > I
> > > > have plenty of 0.75 mm drills to learn on ;-)
> > > > 
> > > > I'm confused about the pulley's role. Is the 3' rod resting on 
> > > > the pulley
> > > or
> > > > is there a rope attached to the pulley that supports the rod? 
> > > > 
> > > > Rick
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > >  ]
> > > > On Behalf Of chris
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:00 AM
> > > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > >  , Mitch Davis wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:59 AM, thb201 wrote:
> > > > > > I was looking to get some drill bits but I only want to get 
> > > > > >just a few sizes, especially if I spring for the more 
> > > > > >expensive carbide
> > types.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Carbide bits stay sharp for a long time, but they are 
> > > > > amazingly brittle. The slightest sideways movement and *ping*,
they're gone.
> > > > > It's not realistic to use them with something you hold in your
hand.
> > > > > I have used a normal drill press with good results.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Mitch.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > I use 0.8mm carbide bits in a hand held proxxon
> > > > 
> > > > I can usually manage a few thousand holes before the drill breaks..
> > > > 
> > > > My wife usually breaks the drill withing the first dozen holes or
so..
> > > > 
> > > > I have been through several methods of drilling, including a 
> > > > commercial drill press, a home made foot operated drill press, a 
> > > > CNC drilling machine and ended up with the following
> > > > 
> > > > a pulley at ceiling height
> > > > 
> > > > a proxxon hand held drill fittted to about a 3 foot aluminium 
> > > > pole
> > > > 
> > > > the pole is suspended from the pulley with a counterweight 
> > > > giving it slightly negative weight so that when you let go it 
> > > > goes upward, away from the board
> > > > 
> > > > the very end part of the proxxon has a rubber grommet fitted.. 
> > > > and it it this that is held lightly between finger and thumb..
> > > > 
> > > > this setup keeps the holes vertical and reduces hand and arm
strain..
> > > > 
> > > > using this, my wife can drill almost as many holes as I can 
> > > > before
> > > breaking
> > > > the bit..
> > > > 
> > > > I manage about 2 holes a second when they are close together..
> > > > with an average of about 1 per second over a longer period
> > > > 
> > > > thats a fair bit faster than my CNC machine can do.. when things 
> > > > like clamping and regictration are included.
> > > > 
> > > > Chris
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, 
> > > > and
> > > Photos:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-30 by Tony Smith

> You are a man after my own heart! I'm a real sucker for simple, elegant
solutions
> to difficult problems. The fact that you can beat CNC with a dangling
drill brings
> a big smile to my mouth.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick


Very old, very well-known and studied problem.  That's why in many cases the
robots make the parts and the meatbags put them together.

Robot makers quickly found out doing things like putting a bolt into a hole
is tricky, if you are the slightest bit off it catches.  Human hands have a
bit of 'give' and you can wiggle the bolt until it aligns, the CNC
equivalent is to have the gripper spring-loaded or mounted in soft rubber so
it can move a bit too.  

That trick probably won't work with PCB drilling as you'd snap the bits.

Then there's things like Vix bits, or even Philips head screws, that's one
of the reasons they were invented.  You can poke the driver in the general
direction of the screw and it'll eventually catch, that doesn't happen with
other types.  The driver also pops out of the screw when the correct torque
is reached - that's a feature, not a bug!  Robots like Philips head screws.

Tony

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

2013-01-30 by Rick Sparber

Tony,

Interesting observation. I heard recently that we have more "hand made"
products today than ever before. Those 50,000 workers at Foxcom are doing a
lot of assembly of machine made parts. I have taken apart an iPod touch and
can tell you there are a lot of difficult to fit parts in there.

Since there is money to be made finding a solution to this general problem,
I'm sure one will be found.

Thanks,

Rick

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tony Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:58 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

> You are a man after my own heart! I'm a real sucker for simple, 
> elegant
solutions
> to difficult problems. The fact that you can beat CNC with a dangling
drill brings
> a big smile to my mouth.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick

Very old, very well-known and studied problem.  That's why in many cases the
robots make the parts and the meatbags put them together.

Robot makers quickly found out doing things like putting a bolt into a hole
is tricky, if you are the slightest bit off it catches.  Human hands have a
bit of 'give' and you can wiggle the bolt until it aligns, the CNC
equivalent is to have the gripper spring-loaded or mounted in soft rubber so
it can move a bit too.  

That trick probably won't work with PCB drilling as you'd snap the bits.

Then there's things like Vix bits, or even Philips head screws, that's one
of the reasons they were invented.  You can poke the driver in the general
direction of the screw and it'll eventually catch, that doesn't happen with
other types.  The driver also pops out of the screw when the correct torque
is reached - that's a feature, not a bug!  Robots like Philips head screws.

Tony

------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

Homebrew PCBs

What size drill bits?

What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What size drill bits?

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