Homebrew PCBs

Hello All,
       Circuit designing has been my hobby for long time. However, i always found it difficult to make a PCB as there are no screen printers near my area and being a Embedded programmer i didnt wanted to jump in the time consuming process of PCB Manufacturing. 
       Couple of months ago i found out the "Toner Transfer" method for PCB manufacturing.However,for a newbie its still a matter of trial and error. So guys here i wanna start a discussion with all those who have done this process ( Sucessfully or not ) , to share their experiences and conclude with a perfect , cheap  PCB making process, which can be implemented easily through TONER TRANSFER METHOD. 
       To maintain relevency of discussion let me point out few topics for discussion:
1. Paper used for Toner Transfer
2. Laser printer type.
3. time and temp. required for exposure ( imp)
4. Single sided and Double sided PCB designing.
5. CHEMICAL composition and eatching time.
etc..

>        To maintain relevency of discussion let me point out few topics for discussion:
> 1. Paper used for Toner Transfer
> 2. Laser printer type.
> 3. time and temp. required for exposure ( imp)
> 4. Single sided and Double sided PCB designing.
> 5. CHEMICAL composition and eatching time.
> etc..
>



I've used this technique for occasional PCBs for several years now and have gradually refined it so that I can get pretty good quality boards without too much effort. I've had good luck with the Staples inkjet photo paper I've seen recommended but I find that cheap glossy junkmail paper works just as well if you can get it to feed through the printer without jamming. My current printer is a Xerox Phaser 6100 and it provides good results, although I've not tried very many different printers. I turn the iron on high, preheat the blank board for a few seconds, lay the pattern on it, place a piece of blank paper over and then hold the iron on it, moving continuously and applying moderate pressure. Some experimentation may be needed here, if you don't press enough the toner may not bond to the copper, but if you press too hard it will squish and smear. I recently ordered a cheap laminator which I hope I can modify to pass PCBs through and get more consistent results. Give it plenty of soak time in warm soapy water and scrub it with a stiff bristle toothbrush to get all the paper residue off areas you want to etch. Properly applied toner sticks surprisingly well so don't be afraid to scrub at it.

The nice thing about this technique is that if it doesn't come out right you can just scrub off the toner and try again. The price is hard to beat too assuming you have a suitable laser printer.

On 24 Jan 2010, at 06:59, howdee_20 wrote:

> wanna start a discussion with all those who have done this process ( Sucessfully or not ) , to share their experiences and conclude with a perfect , cheap  PCB making process, which can be implemented easily through TONER TRANSFER METHOD. 

One thing I've



>       To maintain relevency of discussion let me point out few topics for discussion:
> 1. Paper used for Toner Transfer
> 2. Laser printer type.
> 3. time and temp. required for exposure ( imp)
> 4. Single sided and Double sided PCB designing.
> 5. CHEMICAL composition and eatching time.
> etc..
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Cheers

Derryck

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 06:59:18 -0000, you wrote:

>Hello All,
>       Circuit designing has been my hobby for long time. However, i always found it difficult to make a PCB as there are no screen printers near my area and being a Embedded programmer i didnt wanted to jump in the time consuming process of PCB Manufacturing. 
>       Couple of months ago i found out the "Toner Transfer" method for PCB manufacturing.However,for a newbie its still a matter of trial and error. So guys here i wanna start a discussion with all those who have done this process ( Sucessfully or not ) , to share their experiences and conclude with a perfect , cheap  PCB making process, which can be implemented easily through TONER TRANSFER METHOD. 

Firstly, much of this has been covered in the past, and in depth.
Opinions will vary as to the exact steps, but:

1) perfect and cheap do not mix.  There's some unavoidable expense.  

The smaller the traces (0.010 vs 0.012; or 0.012 vs 0.016) the less
forgiving the process.  0.5 mm spacing chips are about the limit for
me, others do better, some do worse.   

>       To maintain relevency of discussion let me point out few topics for discussion:
>1. Paper used for Toner Transfer
Go to www.pulsar.gs (they've changed the website).   Read the whole
website for toner transfer.  Read the hints, look at the accessories,
not all of the instructions they have are in one place.

>2. Laser printer type.

Black, dense, anything but a new brother model.

>3. time and temp. required for exposure ( imp)

Pulsar specifies it, depends on the board, somewhat on the size, and
I'd recommend a GBC laminator.  (so do they).

>4. Single sided and Double sided PCB designing.

Separate vias, avoid vias under TQFP parts (i.e. never), wires or
eyelets, technique varies with density on the board.  SS is up to you,
double sided I use two separate thin single sided boards and epoxy
them together.  Use map pins for registration (thanks to whoever
mentioned that, works better than straight pins, no flex).


>5. CHEMICAL composition and eatching time.

I switched from FeCl3 to H2O2 and HCl, works better for me, have to
see what happens when we go to CuCl etching.



>etc..

Absolutely clean boards are a must.

Harvey

>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Look in the Dateabase section. Several databases have been set up for people to add their experiences with various printers, papers, laminators, programs, etc. Experiences both good and bad.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/database

Steve Greenfield


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "howdee_20" <howdee_20@...> wrote:

>
> Hello All,
>        Circuit designing has been my hobby for long time. However, i always found it difficult to make a PCB as there are no screen printers near my area and being a Embedded programmer i didnt wanted to jump in the time consuming process of PCB Manufacturing. 
>        Couple of months ago i found out the "Toner Transfer" method for PCB manufacturing.However,for a newbie its still a matter of trial and error. So guys here i wanna start a discussion with all those who have done this process ( Sucessfully or not ) , to share their experiences and conclude with a perfect , cheap  PCB making process, which can be implemented easily through TONER TRANSFER METHOD. 
>        To maintain relevency of discussion let me point out few topics for discussion:
> 1. Paper used for Toner Transfer
> 2. Laser printer type.
> 3. time and temp. required for exposure ( imp)
> 4. Single sided and Double sided PCB designing.
> 5. CHEMICAL composition and eatching time.
> etc..
>

Very crappy LaserJet III printer, the faint smudges don't seem to interfere greatly, but the pin-holes do. The transfer invariably needs a bit of rework with a fine-tipped permanent marker pen.

The ad pages from InTech magazine, American edition, give great transfer.

Cut the blank to size, scrub thoroughly with dry steel-wool, clean it with several passes of paper towel wetted with isopropyl alcohol. It's fundamental to have the copper slightly rough and very clean. Any fat or finger-print will cause the transfer to fail.

Cut out the print with some margin left and right, place the blank upside-down over it, align and fix in place with pieces of white label. Turn over.

Set iron between cotton and linen, let warm up for 10 minutes. Pass directly over the paper evenly for some five minutes, press with edge a few times. Otherwise no great pressure seems to be needed. Once the copper is hot enough to melt the toner it adheres right away.

Let cool off and soak for some time, say five to ten minutes. Gently pull off paper. I usually print more than one copy since the first try usually gives more defects than it's worth the hassle to correct.

I mostly do single-sided, but for the few double-sided the following worked well. Use alignment marks on the artwork. Transfer copper side as above, don't etch. Drill very fine holes through the marks, make pin-holes through the corresponding marks on the component printout. Push pins through the holes in the blank, use them to align the printout. Fix in place, remove pins and apply iron. Etch both sides at the same time.

Etchant is copper chloride, several years old by now and getting better over time. CuCl2 is a bit of a job getting started but once working it's great.

--- On Sun, 1/24/10, howdee_20 <howdee_20@...> wrote:

From: howdee_20 <howdee_20@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Discussion on Toner Transfer Method
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 24, 2010, 4:59 AM







 



  


    
      
      
      Hello All,

       Circuit designing has been my hobby for long time. However, i always found it difficult to make a PCB as there are no screen printers near my area and being a Embedded programmer i didnt wanted to jump in the time consuming process of PCB Manufacturing. 

       Couple of months ago i found out the "Toner Transfer" method for PCB manufacturing. However,for a newbie its still a matter of trial and error. So guys here i wanna start a discussion with all those who have done this process ( Sucessfully or not ) , to share their experiences and conclude with a perfect , cheap  PCB making process, which can be implemented easily through TONER TRANSFER METHOD. 

       To maintain relevency of discussion let me point out few topics for discussion:

1. Paper used for Toner Transfer

2. Laser printer type.

3. time and temp. required for exposure ( imp)

4. Single sided and Double sided PCB designing.

5. CHEMICAL composition and eatching time.

etc..





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steady on there! The LJIII is not crappy! It may not print so well but
at least you can sit on it if you are short a chair, or use it as a
stepping stool to reach a high shelf. It'll still turn over and print
when all the current models are long dead and gone.

With a new genuine HP cartridge I've actually had pretty decent
results, but it's worthless with the cheap cartridges.
The problem I had with it is the 300DPI resolution. That's not really
enough to do fine pitch SMD ICs.

It seems best to have a dedicated cartridge for TT, or even a whole
printer. You can use a cartridge for regular printing long after it
has stopped giving good TT results so don't waste the early life on
regular printing.

ST

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Yngve <yd_br@...> wrote:
> Very crappy LaserJet III printer,

Yes, it works fine when it works. The problem is that the carts are all NOS, I have 4 of them. They don't seem to age well, something happens to the photosensitive surface. As they're mounted in the lid they get shook up when clearing a jam and the prints get smudged.

I mostly do through-hole, and keep the traces above 0.5 mm. Still have enough pin-holing to be a bother. But the transfer is great.

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Discussion on Toner Transfer Method
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 4:35 AM







 



  


    
      
      
      Steady on there! The LJIII is not crappy! It may not print so well but

at least you can sit on it if you are short a chair, or use it as a

stepping stool to reach a high shelf. It'll still turn over and print

when all the current models are long dead and gone.



With a new genuine HP cartridge I've actually had pretty decent

results, but it's worthless with the cheap cartridges.

The problem I had with it is the 300DPI resolution. That's not really

enough to do fine pitch SMD ICs.



It seems best to have a dedicated cartridge for TT, or even a whole

printer. You can use a cartridge for regular printing long after it

has stopped giving good TT results so don't waste the early life on

regular printing.



ST



On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Yngve <yd_br@yahoo. com> wrote:

> Very crappy LaserJet III printer,



    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stefan and others - Stefan, you make the comment about the need for a "genuine HP cartridge" for toner transfer.  Is this true of most all HP printers? I'm thinking of the P-1006 for instance.  Is there really that much difference in the first 500 pages, and the 1200th page? 

How long will a laser toner cartridge last once it's started, then taken from the printer for storage?

Is it worth while to have two cartridges - one older for normal printing, and one "new" for TT?

Thanks to you and all others for comments.

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> Steady on there! The LJIII is not crappy! It may not print so well 

> With a new genuine HP cartridge I've actually had pretty decent
> results, but it's worthless with the cheap cartridges.

Jumping in on the "Genuine" vs "generic" toner cartridges, based on my
experience as an IT Manager, responsible for dozens of laser printers:

 

.         Depending on where you live, what batch, the weather, the phase of
the moon, sunspots, etc., your experience with any given supplier of
"non-Genuine" toner cartridges can vary all over the place, ranging from
better than OEM, to downright useless.  And just because one batch is good,
does not necessarily mean the next one will be.  You may also be able to
find a supplier of consistent, top quality product.

.         What you pay for with an OEM ("Genuine") cartridge is two things.
1st is consistency.  Each and every toner cartridge will be very similar in
characteristics to the next one.  2nd, and equally important, the toner
cartridge, and it's payload, will be optimized for the particular printer it
was meant for.  This means the "right" melting temperature, the right
particle size, right shape, etc.

 

Are all non-OEM cartridges junk?  No.  Are all OEM cartridges perfect?
Probably not, but more likely to be consistent.

 

 

John

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of sailingto
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 8:42 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Discussion on Toner Transfer Method

 

  

Stefan and others - Stefan, you make the comment about the need for a
"genuine HP cartridge" for toner transfer. Is this true of most all HP
printers? I'm thinking of the P-1006 for instance. Is there really that much
difference in the first 500 pages, and the 1200th page? 

How long will a laser toner cartridge last once it's started, then taken
from the printer for storage?

Is it worth while to have two cartridges - one older for normal printing,
and one "new" for TT?

Thanks to you and all others for comments.

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> Steady on there! The LJIII is not crappy! It may not print so well 

> With a new genuine HP cartridge I've actually had pretty decent
> results, but it's worthless with the cheap cartridges.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Exactly right. The point in buying the off-brand is price in the first
place, and unless you run a lot of printers you probably want to save
a whole lot of money or not bother at all. So you'll likely buy the
cheapest cart and get rotten quality.

Instead, I just buy the genuine cartridge on ebay now for even less
than the cheapest remanufactured one at the shop (remanufactured =
refill with almost dead drum from the start).

I don't know how it degrades over time, compared to use. What I know
is with my Lexmark I can't empty them for toner transfer, they will
print paper just fine but too thin for PCBs. Using them after the
expiration date on a sealed box doesn't seem an issue so I'm hopeful
it doesn't degrade much over time. Ideally you'd use the same make and
model printer for paper printing so you can cycle the cartridges and
always have a relatively fresh one for toner transfer.

ST

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Chiphead <chiphead@...> wrote:
> Jumping in on the "Genuine" vs "generic" toner cartridges, based on my
> experience as an IT Manager, responsible for dozens of laser printers:
>
>
>
> .         Depending on where you live, what batch, the weather, the phase of
> the moon, sunspots, etc., your experience with any given supplier of
> "non-Genuine" toner cartridges can vary all over the place, ranging from
> better than OEM, to downright useless.  And just because one batch is good,
> does not necessarily mean the next one will be.  You may also be able to
> find a supplier of consistent, top quality product.
>
> .         What you pay for with an OEM ("Genuine") cartridge is two things.
> 1st is consistency.  Each and every toner cartridge will be very similar in
> characteristics to the next one.  2nd, and equally important, the toner
> cartridge, and it's payload, will be optimized for the particular printer it
> was meant for.  This means the "right" melting temperature, the right
> particle size, right shape, etc.
>
>
>
> Are all non-OEM cartridges junk?  No.  Are all OEM cartridges perfect?
> Probably not, but more likely to be consistent.
>
>
>
>
>
> John
>

Thanks to both Stefan and Chiphead for the comments on OEM vs remanufactured toner cartridges.  

> Instead, I just buy the genuine cartridge on ebay now for even less

Do you have a link from an ebay seller? I've looked and it seems like every P1006 cartridge I find is either refilled OR as this Item number:	110484116522 - "Directly from Factory, New"... then there is the word "Compatible)" meaning it's NOT OEM from my understanding.  There is also the matter of HP's smart chip.  Stefan, you are buying for Lexmark, so might not have HP info. 

Chiphead, or anyone? do you have any comments on a source for OEM HP P1006 cartridges?  I looked at Staples.com where I think the cartridge was $68 or so?  Almost what I paid for the new printer - of course that was with a "starter" cartridge.

> expiration date on a sealed box doesn't seem an issue so I'm hopeful
> it doesn't degrade much over time. 

I expected a sealed box to be ok for a LONG time, but my concern is the toner cartridge that has been opened and used to print 5 toner transfers, then removed for storage.  No longer sealed cartridges - anyone have any idea of shelf life?

Thanks to all for comments and shared knowledge.

Ken H>

> 
> Do you have a link from an ebay seller? I've looked and it seems like every P1006 cartridge I find is either refilled OR as this Item number:	110484116522 - "Directly from Factory, New"... then there is the word "Compatible)" meaning it's NOT OEM from my understanding.  There is also the matter of HP's smart chip.  Stefan, you are buying for Lexmark, so might not have HP info. 
> 
> Chiphead, or anyone? do you have any comments on a source for OEM HP P1006 cartridges?  I looked at Staples.com where I think the cartridge was $68 or so?  Almost what I paid for the new printer - of course that was with a "starter" cartridge.
> 


I don't know of a specific seller, but the only time I needed a cartridge for my printer I found one on ebay for $20 that was OEM. Laser cartridges last a very long time with typical home use, I got a couple years out of the first one.

$68 sounds pretty reasonable, that's how these things work of course, the printers are sold incredibly cheaply as they are subsidized by the sale of consumables. A real cartridge will normally last several times longer than a starter cartridge, most will get you 3,000-5,000 pages so the actual cost per page is ridiculously cheap, especially compared to inkjet. I gave up on those after spending hundreds on cartridges over the years that usually got me 20-30 pages before they dried up from infrequent use.



> 
> I expected a sealed box to be ok for a LONG time, but my concern is the toner cartridge that has been opened and used to print 5 toner transfers, then removed for storage.  No longer sealed cartridges - anyone have any idea of shelf life?
> 


The old LED printer I had was probably 6-7 years old when I got it and I used the cartridge that came in it for another 2-3 years. So long as they are stored in a cool dry place they should last virtually indefinitely.

On Jan 26, 2010, at 9:13 AM, sailingto wrote:

> Do you have a link from an ebay seller? I've looked and it seems  
> like every P1006 cartridge I find is either refilled OR as this Item  
> number:	110484116522 - "Directly from Factory, New"... then there is  
> the word "Compatible)" meaning it's NOT OEM from my understanding.

I spent a few days looking for used cartridges on eBay and finally  
went to Staples and spent twice as much.  I had to parse every word of  
every listing (and there are quite a few listings, even for my antique  
LJ 4050), or ask the seller directly, to determine if it was really a  
cartridge made by HP.  The vast majority — even those that use  
pictures of HP products — are knockoffs.  It’s immensely frustrating.

> There is also the matter of HP's smart chip.

That doesn’t seem to be an issue for all HP printers.

--
Brian Lalor / blalor@...
     Stewardess: We know you have your choice of bankrupt carriers and  
we
     appreciate you choosing us.

Brian,

I have had very good experience with

	http://www.tonerrefillkits.com/

It's thoroughly explained on their site, but basically you buy a first time reuasable kit ($12.95) to put a nice hole in the cartridge, pour in the toner and then seal the hole. The reset chip is included with the toner and they claim the refill is genuine factory toner.

This is a link to the HP p1006 

http://www.tonerrefillkits.com/HP-Laserjet-P1006-CB435A-Toner-Refill-Kit-and-Toner-Cartridge.php

I have a Laserjet 1320 and refilled one cartridge. I notice absolutely no difference between a new HP cartridge and the refilled one. In fact, I just processed 5 new boards and they turned out perfectly. Overall, I am very satisfied with the product.

Baxter

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Brian Lalor <blalor@...> wrote:

>
> On Jan 26, 2010, at 9:13 AM, sailingto wrote:
> 
> > Do you have a link from an ebay seller? I've looked and it seems  
> > like every P1006 cartridge I find is either refilled OR as this Item  
> > number:	110484116522 - "Directly from Factory, New"... then there is  
> > the word "Compatible)" meaning it's NOT OEM from my understanding.
> 
> I spent a few days looking for used cartridges on eBay and finally  
> went to Staples and spent twice as much.  I had to parse every word of  
> every listing (and there are quite a few listings, even for my antique  
> LJ 4050), or ask the seller directly, to determine if it was really a  
> cartridge made by HP.  The vast majority — even those that use  
> pictures of HP products — are knockoffs.  It's immensely frustrating.
> 
> > There is also the matter of HP's smart chip.
> 
> That doesn't seem to be an issue for all HP printers.
> 
> --
> Brian Lalor / blalor@...
>      Stewardess: We know you have your choice of bankrupt carriers and  
> we
>      appreciate you choosing us.
>

The photo drum in the cartridge will age, requiring a new one after some time.


Quote from the link:

The only time you need to order an empty cartridge is if your present
cartridge isn't working properly (other than just printing light due
to "toner low") or if you want to have spares on hand when your
present cartridge finally "poops out" (usually  2 - 4 refills after it
initially runs out of toner).

ST

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 7:27 PM, bebx2000 <bebx2000@...> wrote:

>
> Brian,
>
> I have had very good experience with
>
>        http://www.tonerrefillkits.com/
>
> It's thoroughly explained on their site, but basically you buy a first time reuasable kit ($12.95) to put a nice hole in the cartridge, pour in the toner and then seal the hole. The reset chip is included with the toner and they claim the refill is genuine factory toner.
>
> This is a link to the HP p1006
>
> http://www.tonerrefillkits.com/HP-Laserjet-P1006-CB435A-Toner-Refill-Kit-and-Toner-Cartridge.php
>
> I have a Laserjet 1320 and refilled one cartridge. I notice absolutely no difference between a new HP cartridge and the refilled one. In fact, I just processed 5 new boards and they turned out perfectly. Overall, I am very satisfied with the product.
>
> Baxter
>

What I've done is look for private one-off sales of surplus toner.
It's people who sell it because they no longer have the printer or
something. Often indicated by grainy bad photos ;-)

You don't want any cunning professional toner sellers which hide the
fact that is a fake in the smallprint.

ST

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Brian Lalor <blalor@...> wrote:

> I spent a few days looking for used cartridges on eBay and finally
> went to Staples and spent twice as much.  I had to parse every word of
> every listing (and there are quite a few listings, even for my antique
> LJ 4050), or ask the seller directly, to determine if it was really a
> cartridge made by HP.  The vast majority — even those that use
> pictures of HP products — are knockoffs.  It’s immensely frustrating.
>

Baxter - The ReChargX Tool Kit - just what is this and is it really needed?  I read it's a hot tool to  melt the hole?  Do they provide the plug with the toner OR with the tool kit?  About what size is the hole that is melted in?

I'm sure thinking I just might try this - but I do read on their webpage it is NOT HP toner, but *of our proprietary, made-on-site toner formula (specially formulated to meet or exceed the OEM specifications for the underlying "engine" )*

Thank you Baxter for the link.

Ken H>

> It's thoroughly explained on their site, but basically you buy a first time reuasable kit ($12.95) to put a nice hole in the cartridge, pour in the toner and then seal the hole. The reset chip is included with the toner and they claim the refill is genuine factory toner.
> 
> This is a link to the HP p1006 
> 
> http://www.tonerrefillkits.com/HP-Laserjet-P1006-CB435A-Toner-Refill-Kit-and-Toner-Cartridge.php

Any size hole melting and covering with strong adhesive tape should do.

Remember the "kit" is so that even mechanically challenged people can
refill, I'm sure you can find a way to put the toner in without it.

ST

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 5:53 AM, sailingto <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
> Baxter - The ReChargX Tool Kit - just what is this and is it really needed?  I read it's a hot tool to  melt the hole?  Do they provide the plug with the toner OR with the tool kit?  About what size is the hole that is melted in?
>
> I'm sure thinking I just might try this - but I do read on their webpage it is NOT HP toner, but *of our proprietary, made-on-site toner formula (specially formulated to meet or exceed the OEM specifications for the underlying "engine" )*
>
> Thank you Baxter for the link.
>
> Ken H>
>

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 07:37:55 +0100, you wrote:

>Any size hole melting and covering with strong adhesive tape should do.
>
>Remember the "kit" is so that even mechanically challenged people can
>refill, I'm sure you can find a way to put the toner in without it.
>
>ST
>
>
One refill issue back to when the original laserjet/laserwriter was introduced 
was punching holes in the toner cartridge without getting plastic chips into the toner.
The toner cartridge has two compartments; one to supply the new toner, the second
is the "trash can" to hold the toner that scrapped off the drum. One trick was to
punch the primer out of a .45 auto cartridge case and mount it on a stick (or
soldering iron) so it could be heated and punched through the plastic.

Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

ken H,

What you get with the Tool Kit is a soldering iron with a copper tip like a hole saw about 5/8" in diameter. You heat it up and hold it perpendicular to the place that is shown in the instructions and it melts a nice hole. If you try to use a hole saw, plastic particles will get mixed in with the toner. You cap the hole with an adhesive backed plastic disk. They come with the toner, 4 included togther with the chip. The toner jar spout is 1/2" in diameter.

The kit also comes with a small screw driver, small needle nose pliers, an hour-glass to time the iron heat up, a rest for the iron, a key chain led and cleanup papers. You probably don't need it if you can make a 5/8" hole without contaminating the toner chamber. 

I was somewhat apprehensive about refilling toner, but it worked well 
for me. I thought toner was like dust, but it seems very slick. When
you pour it out of the bottle it really runs out fast and you need to pour slowly. The instructions are very good. They show you exactly where to place the hole. Apparently, it is different for different cartridges.

As for the toner, OEM or not, I did 5 boards with it and they turned out just fine. Regular printing is the same as with a genuine HP cartridge. If your printer will do toner transfer with a genuine cartridge, I think this refill product will also do so.

Baxter

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:

>
> Baxter - The ReChargX Tool Kit - just what is this and is it really needed?  I read it's a hot tool to  melt the hole?  Do they provide the plug with the toner OR with the tool kit?  About what size is the hole that is melted in?
> 
> I'm sure thinking I just might try this - but I do read on their webpage it is NOT HP toner, but *of our proprietary, made-on-site toner formula (specially formulated to meet or exceed the OEM specifications for the underlying "engine" )*
> 
> Thank you Baxter for the link.
> 
> Ken H>
>

Neat idea on the .45 cal brass to burn the hole - I was thinking of something along those lines - I think that might be what I try first.  I really think I can put a 5/8" hole by heating pretty easy - I got a good bit of brass around of different calibers. Will a strip of duct tape work to seal the hole?

Thanks - I'm sure glad this thread got started and went the direction it did...  sorta hi-jacked I guess, but both topics were good.

Ken H.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kabowers@... wrote:

>
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 07:37:55 +0100, you wrote:
> 
> >Any size hole melting and covering with strong adhesive tape should do.
> >
> >Remember the "kit" is so that even mechanically challenged people can
> >refill, I'm sure you can find a way to put the toner in without it.
> >
> >ST
> >
> >
> One refill issue back to when the original laserjet/laserwriter was introduced 
> was punching holes in the toner cartridge without getting plastic chips into the toner.
> The toner cartridge has two compartments; one to supply the new toner, the second
> is the "trash can" to hold the toner that scrapped off the drum. One trick was to
> punch the primer out of a .45 auto cartridge case and mount it on a stick (or
> soldering iron) so it could be heated and punched through the plastic.
> 
> Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
>
> Neat idea on the .45 cal brass to burn the hole - I was thinking of something along those lines - I think that might be what I try first.  I really think I can put a 5/8" hole by heating pretty easy - I got a good bit of brass around of different calibers. Will a strip of duct tape work to seal the hole?
> 


I suppose a scrap of copper or aluminum tubing would work as well. 

Duct tape tends to fall off over time. You might try foil tape, it can be found in the HVAC section of any hardware store, it's typically used for gas appliance venting and duct work. You could also hot glue a piece of plastic cut from the lid of a butter/cool whip/etc container over the hole.

I think the tape will be fine, doesn't have to last forever. I usually
strongly dislike tape (because it leaves a mess) but this would be a
good application. If you glue something on I woud avoid food
containers made of polypropylene or polyethylene, instead go for ABS
or other styrene based plastic, same as the printer cartridge is most
likely made of. It will glue much stronger.

Any metal object can be used to make the hole, like a nail for example
or an old soldering iron tip, just drag it around through the plastic
to enlarge the hole. I'm sure you can also drill it as long as you
vaccuum out all the chips afterwards (again, that kit is made so that
everybody can easily handle it without fuss). A very neat job would
add tapping a thread for a removeable cap.


ST

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:11 AM, James <jamesrsweet@...> wrote:

> I suppose a scrap of copper or aluminum tubing would work as well.
>
> Duct tape tends to fall off over time. You might try foil tape, it can be found in the HVAC section of any hardware store, it's typically used for gas appliance venting and duct work. You could also hot glue a piece of plastic cut from the lid of a butter/cool whip/etc container over the hole.
>
>