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2012-01-27 by Steve
Anyone have experience or thoughts about either the Proxxon 38128 or MicroMark 81631drill presses? I'm looking at one of them for use in (among other things) drilling PCB's. Advice welcome. Thanks. Steve K8JQ -- Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit http://patriotpost.us/subscription/
2012-01-27 by Chris Kleeschulte
I have the MicroMark 81631 and I love it. I NEVER break bits even down to the very smallest holes. The rotation speed could be a tad faster, but it gets the job done. I use the carbide bits you can get at harborfreight. They work pretty good. The MicroMark is belt-driven and very well-built. There is not much run out on the machine and the deflection when the bit hits the target is tolerable. I highly recommend. -- Chris Kleeschulte KK4DYJ
2012-01-27 by Robert
I'm looking at those exact same two myself, I'm leaning towards the Micro-Mark but they are both nearly identical. The Proxxon comes with a set of collets and the chuck is sold separatly, Proxxon 85Watt, 3 speed pulley and 1800, 4700, 8500 rpm and runs $214 US http://www.minicrafttools.com/38128.html Micro-Mark comes with a 3 jaw chuck, 90Watt, 3 speed pully 2100, 4500, 6500 rpm and $193.65 http://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-3-Speed-Mini-Drill-Press,7797.html If you subscribe to Micro-Mark newsletter they have email sale flyers sent out fairly often, just recently they had their variable speed model on sale about 10% off I want the smaller drill press though mainly for my limited space requirements. Robert --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Steve <steve65@...> wrote:
> > Anyone have experience or thoughts about either the Proxxon 38128 or > MicroMark 81631drill presses? I'm looking at one of them for use in > (among other things) drilling PCB's. Advice welcome. > > Thanks. > > Steve K8JQ > > -- > Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit > http://patriotpost.us/subscription/ >
2012-01-27 by Steve
Thanks for the advice Chris and Robert. MicroMark often has a sale of one sort or another and for this week they are having a 15% off sale. So their 81631 drill press can be had for about $165. I'm leaning in that direction. I inquired of MicroMark as to run out specifications for the 81631 as well as the variable speed drill press. Their response was not particularly definitive: "These machines do not have mfg. specifications on runout, but as an estimation I would expect the spindle of either drill press to have a runout in the neighborhood of 0.0015" or less. The chucks for both machines are standard duty drill chucks rated at 0.003" or less runout; chuck capacity is 1/64" to 1/4"." I'm not well versed in drill press run out specs. Anyone know if those numbers are good, bad or otherwise for use in drilling PCB's? Steve K8JQ On 1/26/2012 9:45 PM, Robert wrote: > I'm looking at those exact same two myself, > > I'm leaning towards the Micro-Mark but they are both nearly identical. > > The Proxxon comes with a set of collets and the chuck is sold separatly, Proxxon 85Watt, 3 speed pulley and 1800, 4700, 8500 rpm and runs $214 US > > http://www.minicrafttools.com/38128.html > > > Micro-Mark comes with a 3 jaw chuck, 90Watt, 3 speed pully 2100, 4500, 6500 rpm and $193.65 > > http://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-3-Speed-Mini-Drill-Press,7797.html > > > If you subscribe to Micro-Mark newsletter they have email sale flyers sent out fairly often, just recently they had their variable speed model on sale about 10% off > > I want the smaller drill press though mainly for my limited space requirements. > > Robert > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Steve<steve65@...> wrote: >> Anyone have experience or thoughts about either the Proxxon 38128 or >> MicroMark 81631drill presses? I'm looking at one of them for use in >> (among other things) drilling PCB's. Advice welcome. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Steve K8JQ >> >> -- >> Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit >> http://patriotpost.us/subscription/ >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit http://patriotpost.us/subscription/
2012-01-27 by Robert
Here's another link to the Proxxon TBM115, this one has data sheet, instructions, parts diagram pdf downloads, the price is $239 though, I would buy from the link I posted earlier. http://www.proxxontools.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=20&idproduct=61 Actually, in a simple review of both Proxxon and Micro-Mark features, I'm starting to see the reasoning to choose the Proxxon. Collets should definately have less runout, and the Proxxon includes these, I'm not sure if they are available for the Micro-Mark. The greater range of speed is the other consideration, in the mid range 4500 and 4700 are too close to notice much difference, but 1800 vs. 2100 might be a little more noticable, especially having a slower speed, and at high rpm I think 8500 is going to really cut cleaner than 6500. Either way adding an external variable reostat could give a little more adjustment, just take care not to overheat the motor with too low or too much voltage. Robby --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <oceanartscasino@...> wrote:
> > I'm looking at those exact same two myself, > > I'm leaning towards the Micro-Mark but they are both nearly identical. > > The Proxxon comes with a set of collets and the chuck is sold separatly, Proxxon 85Watt, 3 speed pulley and 1800, 4700, 8500 rpm and runs $214 US > > http://www.minicrafttools.com/38128.html > > > Micro-Mark comes with a 3 jaw chuck, 90Watt, 3 speed pully 2100, 4500, 6500 rpm and $193.65 > > http://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-3-Speed-Mini-Drill-Press,7797.html > > > If you subscribe to Micro-Mark newsletter they have email sale flyers sent out fairly often, just recently they had their variable speed model on sale about 10% off > > I want the smaller drill press though mainly for my limited space requirements. > > Robert > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Steve <steve65@> wrote: > > > > Anyone have experience or thoughts about either the Proxxon 38128 or > > MicroMark 81631drill presses? I'm looking at one of them for use in > > (among other things) drilling PCB's. Advice welcome. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Steve K8JQ > > > > -- > > Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit > > http://patriotpost.us/subscription/ > > >
2012-01-27 by tda7000
I use a Proxxon FBS rotary tool in a Proxxon 140/S stand Lhttp://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28606.php) It runs faster than the TBM drill press (5,000-20,000 RPM) and of course you can take the tool out and do other things with it. Price for both the tool and stand is about the same as the drill press. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <oceanartscasino@...> wrote:
> > Here's another link to the Proxxon TBM115, this one has data sheet, instructions, parts diagram pdf downloads, the price is $239 though, I would buy from the link I posted earlier. > > http://www.proxxontools.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=20&idproduct=61 > > > Actually, in a simple review of both Proxxon and Micro-Mark features, I'm starting to see the reasoning to choose the Proxxon. > > Collets should definately have less runout, and the Proxxon includes these, I'm not sure if they are available for the Micro-Mark. > > The greater range of speed is the other consideration, > > in the mid range 4500 and 4700 are too close to notice much difference, but 1800 vs. 2100 might be a little more noticable, especially having a slower speed, and at high rpm I think 8500 is going to really cut cleaner than 6500. > > Either way adding an external variable reostat could give a little more adjustment, just take care not to overheat the motor with too low or too much voltage. > > > Robby > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <oceanartscasino@> wrote: > > > > I'm looking at those exact same two myself, > > > > I'm leaning towards the Micro-Mark but they are both nearly identical. > > > > The Proxxon comes with a set of collets and the chuck is sold separatly, Proxxon 85Watt, 3 speed pulley and 1800, 4700, 8500 rpm and runs $214 US > > > > http://www.minicrafttools.com/38128.html > > > > > > Micro-Mark comes with a 3 jaw chuck, 90Watt, 3 speed pully 2100, 4500, 6500 rpm and $193.65 > > > > http://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-3-Speed-Mini-Drill-Press,7797.html > > > > > > If you subscribe to Micro-Mark newsletter they have email sale flyers sent out fairly often, just recently they had their variable speed model on sale about 10% off > > > > I want the smaller drill press though mainly for my limited space requirements. > > > > Robert > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, Steve <steve65@> wrote: > > > > > > Anyone have experience or thoughts about either the Proxxon 38128 or > > > MicroMark 81631drill presses? I'm looking at one of them for use in > > > (among other things) drilling PCB's. Advice welcome. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Steve K8JQ > > > > > > -- > > > Read The Patriot Post Vertitas vos Liberabit > > > http://patriotpost.us/subscription/ > > > > > >
2012-01-27 by bebx2000
I also use this setup.I mounted a thin project box to the table with a laser pointer, a mirror at 45 deg and a pinhole inside to illuminate the bottom of the PCB. The pin hole is made by mounting a brass shim and drilling the hole with the smallest bit that you have. A degree of fiddling is necessary to get the laser beam directly centered on the pinhole. But once it is adjusted, the beam is strong enough to illuminate the hole to be drilled from below. There is also a bit of diffusion through the FR4, but the center of the spot of light is exactly aligned with the bit. the top of the project box serves as the table which is OK for small PCBs. The drawback is that once it is calibrated you can't remove the rotary tool or rotate the arm. This arrangement largely eliminates the depth perception problem; where the spot of light is, is where the drill bit will penetrate the PCB. Baxter --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@...> wrote:
> > > > I use a Proxxon FBS rotary tool in a Proxxon 140/S stand Lhttp://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28606.php) >
2012-01-27 by Tom
I highly recommend the "Dremel 220-01 Rotary Tool Work Station" you can see me drilling with it (I also have a vacuum nozzle close to the drill) in this youtube video which I made as part of a small series in DIY PCBs. DIY PCB Part-1 Drilling http://youtu.be/Qifv-GkI96k I have many youtube videos on PCBs and microcontrollers etc. Please subscribe to the youtube channel if you like. Tom --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "bebx2000" <bebx2000@...> wrote:
> > I also use this setup.I mounted a thin project box to the table with a laser pointer, a mirror at 45 deg and a pinhole inside to illuminate the bottom of the PCB. The pin hole is made by mounting a brass shim and drilling the hole with the smallest bit that you have. A degree of fiddling is necessary to get the laser beam directly centered on the pinhole. But once it is adjusted, the beam is strong enough to illuminate the hole to be drilled from below. There is also a bit of diffusion through the FR4, but the center of the spot of light is exactly aligned with the bit. the top of the project box serves as the table which is OK for small PCBs. > > The drawback is that once it is calibrated you can't remove the rotary tool or rotate the arm. This arrangement largely eliminates the depth perception problem; where the spot of light is, is where the drill bit will penetrate the PCB. > > Baxter > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I use a Proxxon FBS rotary tool in a Proxxon 140/S stand Lhttp://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28606.php) > > >
2012-01-28 by Harvey White
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:04:33 -0000, you wrote: >I also use this setup.I mounted a thin project box to the table with a laser pointer, a mirror at 45 deg and a pinhole inside to illuminate the bottom of the PCB. The pin hole is made by mounting a brass shim and drilling the hole with the smallest bit that you have. A degree of fiddling is necessary to get the laser beam directly centered on the pinhole. But once it is adjusted, the beam is strong enough to illuminate the hole to be drilled from below. There is also a bit of diffusion through the FR4, but the center of the spot of light is exactly aligned with the bit. the top of the project box serves as the table which is OK for small PCBs. > >The drawback is that once it is calibrated you can't remove the rotary tool or rotate the arm. This arrangement largely eliminates the depth perception problem; where the spot of light is, is where the drill bit will penetrate the PCB. I'm working on an upside down drill press, using a TV camera as a viewpoint, with an engraved graticule to show where the center of the hole is. The project is just starting, so I'll post details when I have something coherent to report. You won't be able to duplicate this exactly, since I'm using a bit of the "I got this one and I'll never get another" kind of thing. The principles and so might be useful, however. Harvey
> >Baxter > >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> I use a Proxxon FBS rotary tool in a Proxxon 140/S stand Lhttp://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28606.php) >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > >
2012-01-28 by Harvey White
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:23:55 -0000, you wrote: >I highly recommend the "Dremel 220-01 Rotary Tool Work Station" > >you can see me drilling with it (I also have a vacuum nozzle close to the drill) in this youtube video which I made as part of a small series in DIY PCBs. Been there and done that. The drill press that I have has some wobble side to side, and the dremel tool has a significant runout. The Proxxon has a lot less. It seems to make a difference when the drill size goes to #78 or so. Proxxon has a steel collet, 3 jaws rather than 4, with the Dremel being aluminum. My own experience is that the dremel, although it hits 30K rpm, doesn't work as well as the Proxxon. However, the vertical drill press can be a bit awkward, the parallax from the side view is quite annoying, and the entire setup is "do over each time". I do use a shop vac with a reduced hose/nozzle combination to remove debris, but there's better ways of doing this than just a nozzle. I've seen something like a question mark, made of 1/2 inch aluminum tubing, with a slot milled around the inside, end plugged. That was on a T-Tech miller. Might catch all the debris, and if put there permanently, will take care of the nasty stuff. Exact parameters will be something I have to figure out. Harvey
> >DIY PCB Part-1 Drilling >http://youtu.be/Qifv-GkI96k > >I have many youtube videos on PCBs and microcontrollers etc. >Please subscribe to the youtube channel if you like. > >Tom > >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "bebx2000" <bebx2000@...> wrote: >> >> I also use this setup.I mounted a thin project box to the table with a laser pointer, a mirror at 45 deg and a pinhole inside to illuminate the bottom of the PCB. The pin hole is made by mounting a brass shim and drilling the hole with the smallest bit that you have. A degree of fiddling is necessary to get the laser beam directly centered on the pinhole. But once it is adjusted, the beam is strong enough to illuminate the hole to be drilled from below. There is also a bit of diffusion through the FR4, but the center of the spot of light is exactly aligned with the bit. the top of the project box serves as the table which is OK for small PCBs. >> >> The drawback is that once it is calibrated you can't remove the rotary tool or rotate the arm. This arrangement largely eliminates the depth perception problem; where the spot of light is, is where the drill bit will penetrate the PCB. >> >> Baxter >> >> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > I use a Proxxon FBS rotary tool in a Proxxon 140/S stand Lhttp://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28606.php) >> > >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > >
2012-01-28 by Jan Kok
I assume you have holes etched in the pads, yes? Otherwise, how do you locate the center of the pads? I've got a Proxxon rotary tool and drill stand. It works great with #80 resharpened carbide drills from Drill Bit City www.store.yahoo.com/drillcity I've also got a Supercircuits(.com) PC302XS camera and 12mm focal length Micro Lens, which has about the right field of view and can focus up close. I plan to use it with a 45 degree mirror and some sort of glass covering (to protect from dust) and an old black and white CCTV monitor to look at the bottom of the PCB while drilling. Work in progress... Cheers, - Jan
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 4:04 PM, bebx2000 <bebx2000@yahoo.com> wrote: > I also use this setup.I mounted a thin project box to the table with a laser pointer, a mirror at 45 deg and a pinhole inside to illuminate the bottom of the PCB. The pin hole is made by mounting a brass shim and drilling the hole with the smallest bit that you have. A degree of fiddling is necessary to get the laser beam directly centered on the pinhole. But once it is adjusted, the beam is strong enough to illuminate the hole to be drilled from below. There is also a bit of diffusion through the FR4, but the center of the spot of light is exactly aligned with the bit. the top of the project box serves as the table which is OK for small PCBs. > > The drawback is that once it is calibrated you can't remove the rotary tool or rotate the arm. This arrangement largely eliminates the depth perception problem; where the spot of light is, is where the drill bit will penetrate the PCB. > > Baxter > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "tda7000" <Tda7000@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> I use a Proxxon FBS rotary tool in a Proxxon 140/S stand Lhttp://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28606.php) >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > >
2012-01-28 by bebx2000
Yes, I have etched holes in the pads. I am very happy with my Proxxon tools and also buy from DrillBitCity/drillcity (the Harbor Freight carbide bits are OK too). The camera you mentioned looks nice. I was considering a camera setup, but the UART interface COMedia C328R that I had was just too cranky to use. The hole illumination from the bottom is not a perfect solution, but it has improved my drilling skills. Baxter --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:
> > I assume you have holes etched in the pads, yes? Otherwise, how do you > locate the center of the pads? > > I've got a Proxxon rotary tool and drill stand. It works great with > #80 resharpened carbide drills from Drill Bit City > www.store.yahoo.com/drillcity > > I've also got a Supercircuits(.com) PC302XS camera and 12mm focal > length Micro Lens, which has about the right field of view and can > focus up close. I plan to use it with a 45 degree mirror and some sort > of glass covering (to protect from dust) and an old black and white > CCTV monitor to look at the bottom of the PCB while drilling. Work in > progress... > > Cheers, > - Jan >