Yahoo Groups archive

Homebrew PCBs

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:05 UTC

Thread

[Homebrew_PCBs] Sillhoute Cameo

[Homebrew_PCBs] Sillhoute Cameo

2012-09-14 by Mark Lerman

I just received my Sillhoute Cameo and have a few first impressions. 
Mike, if you could chime in here I'd appreciate it because I can't 
seem to achieve your results.

1 - I cannot get a pcb to track through the machine accurately. The 
cutter seems to hang the board up so that it feeds irregularly, 
skewing sideways back and forth as it goes in and out of the machine. 
This seems to be true whatever speed I select.

2 - Most of the tracks I get are not completely through the copper. I 
am using the highest setting on the cutter.

I am using Gerbv to convert gerber files to svg, then importing the 
svg files using the "Designer Edition" of the Sillhoute software. It 
seems to work well, but the feed problems make it hard to tell if 
everything is accurate. I ordered a pen holder for the machine, so I 
should be able to use it as a plotter to see exactly what is happening.

The machine looks like it would be very easy to modify to feed copper 
clad reliably. All  it should take is putting a few o rings on the 
shaft for friction and removing the plastic rollers. Hopefully I'll 
have time to take it apart over the weekend.

Mark

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Sillhoute Cameo

2012-09-14 by Mark Lerman

More:

It was very easy to modify the Sillhoutte to feed pcb accurately. The 
machine comes apart easily and 4 pieces of  3/8 x 9/16 o-rings did 
the trick.  I tried cutting a few pcbs and found:

1 - I couldn't cut through 1 oz copper (approx 1.6mil), but I could 
cut through a thinner board with (I think) 1/2 oz copper. Modifying 
the head to apply more pressure might work?? I believe the downward 
pressure is controlled by the current in the down solenoid, but I'm 
not sure. Have to take it apart more to see. The specs say it can 
deliver up to 210 gms of force, software controlled.

2 - The length of exposed knife is not critical, since the copper is very thin.

3 - The trace cuts are asymmetrical. This, I think, is because knife 
is not symmetrical, and it does not rotate as the cut is made. The 
knife is in a cylindrical holder that is clamped in whatever position 
you drop it into the head and clamp it to. It is rigidly held in 
place. "Cutter Compensation" as Mike Sinclair describes it does not 
occur since the machine has no way of knowing what orientation the 
offset of the knife is. Perhaps more sophisticated vinyl cutters make 
this compensation, but unless I am missing something, it isn't happening here.

4 - In a short experiment I was able to make 16 mil traces. Of 
course, I haven't actually measured the widths, but they seem about 
right in the horizontal plane. The vertical traces look to be about 
twice as wide. All the traces are isolated correctly and intact; I 
"sanded" the board lightly with a pad and all is okay.

5 - I did not get any of the "waviness" that Mike got. As Mike 
suggested, I think that is an artifact of the "tracing". I am using 
svg files directly and am not having problems.

6 - I want to find a conical router blade as is used in a cnc mill 
and see how that works as a drag knife.

7 - I'd also like to get a lighter weight drill. One thing I might 
consider is a small air powered turbine, like is used in a dental 
drill. Another thought is a small, high speed motor like a large pager motor.

8 - The machine is powered by two very small steppers. It should be 
very easy to replace the electronics with a simple stepper driver 
that could be driven by standard cnc software. I'm not sure I want to 
do that, but it would be an easy way to get a very versatile, 
relatively inexpensive lightweight  cnc that could do a lot of 
different things.

Mark







At 10:28 AM 9/14/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I just received my Sillhoute Cameo and have a few first impressions.
>Mike, if you could chime in here I'd appreciate it because I can't
>seem to achieve your results.
>
>1 - I cannot get a pcb to track through the machine accurately. The
>cutter seems to hang the board up so that it feeds irregularly,
>skewing sideways back and forth as it goes in and out of the machine.
>This seems to be true whatever speed I select.
>
>2 - Most of the tracks I get are not completely through the copper. I
>am using the highest setting on the cutter.
>
>I am using Gerbv to convert gerber files to svg, then importing the
>svg files using the "Designer Edition" of the Sillhoute software. It
>seems to work well, but the feed problems make it hard to tell if
>everything is accurate. I ordered a pen holder for the machine, so I
>should be able to use it as a plotter to see exactly what is happening.
>
>The machine looks like it would be very easy to modify to feed copper
>clad reliably. All  it should take is putting a few o rings on the
>shaft for friction and removing the plastic rollers. Hopefully I'll
>have time to take it apart over the weekend.
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Sillhoute Cameo

2012-09-15 by Mark Lerman

Whoops - my error. The knife does, indeed, rotate in the holder so 
that cutter compensation can/might take place Also, I reviewed some 
of my prior "cuts" that didn't fully penetrate the copper, and they 
are symmetrical. Have to  look at this again.

Re: Sillhoute Cameo

2012-09-15 by Mike Sinclair

Great topics!

One thing to know is that the Z-axis is just a solenoid with a spring return. A solenoid's force (-Z in this example) is proportional the the electrical power applied and how clost the soft iron slug (armature) is to the end of travel. This last I believe varies as the square of the penetration distance so the further you can get the slug to penetrate the solenoid, the higher the force. I measured between 4 and 7 volts on the solenoid, depending on "Thickness" selected. If you raise the inserted holder (be it for the swivel blade, pen, Dremel extension handpiece, etc), the downward force will increase until the solenoid bottoms out - with a metallic 'click'.

Not sure what's hanging up in your machine to cause it to skew. Obviously something mechanica I'd guessl. In my hopefully educated opinion, I would NOT remove the plastic rollers as rubber/elastomeric ones will not exert enough pressure on the PCB. Also, of the two metal rods that pinch the PCB, ONLY the bottom one is driven so you will get little/no torque/force out of the top one or anything you mount to it. The downward spring tension on the top metal rod and rollers, pushing the PCB into the bottom metal rod's knurling (grooves),  is plenty to grab the material, IMHO. The purpose of this assembly is to force the material against the knurling on the bottom metal rod, the only thing transfering force to the material. Chosing "Enhanced Cut" will roll the PCB in and out (Y direction) wo hopefully wear a grooved path in the bottom of the material for additional friction. I have not needed this in the past. The copperclad against the grooves in the metal rollers gives you the best non-slip friction possible, in my opinion.  I believe rubber will encourage slipping.

I think on my web site, I recommend 0.5 oz copperclad or thinner. I have had difficulty cutting through 1.0 Oz. I think Digikey sells this. Try Think and Tinker as a source for high speed carbide router, mill and drill bits. For the milling bits, I've had good results with the 30 deg ones. If you're trying the swivel knife approach, by all means go the 3rd party carbide blade route as the standard steel ones will wear out quickly. I have also found a source for paper backed copperclad instead of fiberglass, possibly extending the life of the blade. More later.

I have tried converting the Gerber 274x files to svg and purchased the Designer Pro addition of the software but I'm not sure this is required as I'm getting great results with their raster-to-vector TRACE app included. I'd like to hear more if you get better results. Also, I've learned from Silhouette Support that very closely  spaced vector objects are drawn as one, possibly compromising small traces. This normally doesn't affect paper cutting other than being able to cut a lot faster through highly detailed, closely spaced vectors.  They have offered to make a firmware change for "us". What a great support team!

Mike

>I just received my Sillhoute Cameo and have a few first impressions.
>Mike, if you could chime in here I'd appreciate it because I can't
>seem to achieve your results.
>
>1 - I cannot get a pcb to track through the machine accurately. The
>cutter seems to hang the board up so that it feeds irregularly,
>skewing sideways back and forth as it goes in and out of the machine.
>This seems to be true whatever speed I select.
>
>2 - Most of the tracks I get are not completely through the copper. I
>am using the highest setting on the cutter.
>
>I am using Gerbv to convert gerber files to svg, then importing the
>svg files using the "Designer Edition" of the Sillhoute software. It
>seems to work well, but the feed problems make it hard to tell if
>everything is accurate. I ordered a pen holder for the machine, so I
>should be able to use it as a plotter to see exactly what is happening.
>
>The machine looks like it would be very easy to modify to feed copper
>clad reliably. All it should take is putting a few o rings on the
>shaft for friction and removing the plastic rollers. Hopefully I'll
>have time to take it apart over the weekend.
>
>Mark


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Sillhoute Cameo

2012-09-15 by Mark Lerman

The problem with feeding bare copperclad is that it has to bridge two 
of the knurled sections, so a large piece is required each time I 
think I am getting excellent back and forth feed by using two o rings 
on the top shaft, opposite the two knurled sections on the right. You 
are right, however, that the rubber does not help since it is the 
bottom roller that does all the work. Perhaps I'll put the plastic 
back on. A nice mod would be to have the whole length of the bottom 
roller textured so the copperclad could be any size.

  Hmmm, the top roller is spring loaded, so an easier approach might 
be to use larger diameter plastic rollers on the top roller opposite 
the textured areas, and use a thin, fixed size carrier. The 
copperclad then sits on the carrier, held by double stick or even 
registration pins, which would make double sided a snap. You could 
even put in guide rails on each side.

If you are going to route the traces, I think some work has to be 
done on the Z axis. Perhaps a stronger return spring and a LOT more 
current through the solenoid. I think the dremel is fine for drilling 
holes, but I'm not too keen on it for milling traces. Perhaps this 
motor would be better 
<http://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Zen-Toolworks-Machine-Holders/dp/B0039HCK6S>, 
though it is $90 USD.

I like this machine as a reasonably well constructed XY table. It 
could be used as a laser cutter, a plotter, pcb drill, light duty 
router, etc; I think it might do better by converting it to a 
standard cnc using Mach3 or some free software, but it's pretty neat 
as it is!  BTW, here is a datasheet on the PM42S-096 steppers it uses 
<http://www.nmbtc.com/motors/part-numbers/Permanent-Magnet-Stepper-3.75-degree/PM42S-096/4864>.

Mark





At 12:43 PM 9/15/2012, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Great topics!
>
>One thing to know is that the Z-axis is just a solenoid with a 
>spring return. A solenoid's force (-Z in this example) is 
>proportional the the electrical power applied and how clost the soft 
>iron slug (armature) is to the end of travel. This last I believe 
>varies as the square of the penetration distance so the further you 
>can get the slug to penetrate the solenoid, the higher the force. I 
>measured between 4 and 7 volts on the solenoid, depending on 
>"Thickness" selected. If you raise the inserted holder (be it for 
>the swivel blade, pen, Dremel extension handpiece, etc), the 
>downward force will increase until the solenoid bottoms out - with a 
>metallic 'click'.
>
>Not sure what's hanging up in your machine to cause it to skew. 
>Obviously something mechanica I'd guessl. In my hopefully educated 
>opinion, I would NOT remove the plastic rollers as 
>rubber/elastomeric ones will not exert enough pressure on the PCB. 
>Also, of the two metal rods that pinch the PCB, ONLY the bottom one 
>is driven so you will get little/no torque/force out of the top one 
>or anything you mount to it. The downward spring tension on the top 
>metal rod and rollers, pushing the PCB into the bottom metal rod's 
>knurling (grooves),  is plenty to grab the material, IMHO. The 
>purpose of this assembly is to force the material against the 
>knurling on the bottom metal rod, the only thing transfering force 
>to the material. Chosing "Enhanced Cut" will roll the PCB in and out 
>(Y direction) wo hopefully wear a grooved path in the bottom of the 
>material for additional friction. I have not needed this in the 
>past. The copperclad against the grooves in the metal rollers gives 
>you the best non-slip friction possible, in my opinion.  I believe 
>rubber will encourage slipping.
>
>I think on my web site, I recommend 0.5 oz copperclad or thinner. I 
>have had difficulty cutting through 1.0 Oz. I think Digikey sells 
>this. Try Think and Tinker as a source for high speed carbide 
>router, mill and drill bits. For the milling bits, I've had good 
>results with the 30 deg ones. If you're trying the swivel knife 
>approach, by all means go the 3rd party carbide blade route as the 
>standard steel ones will wear out quickly. I have also found a 
>source for paper backed copperclad instead of fiberglass, possibly 
>extending the life of the blade. More later.
>
>I have tried converting the Gerber 274x files to svg and purchased 
>the Designer Pro addition of the software but I'm not sure this is 
>required as I'm getting great results with their raster-to-vector 
>TRACE app included. I'd like to hear more if you get better results. 
>Also, I've learned from Silhouette Support that very closely  spaced 
>vector objects are drawn as one, possibly compromising small traces. 
>This normally doesn't affect paper cutting other than being able to 
>cut a lot faster through highly detailed, closely spaced 
>vectors.  They have offered to make a firmware change for "us". What 
>a great support team!
>
>Mike
>
> >I just received my Sillhoute Cameo and have a few first impressions.
> >Mike, if you could chime in here I'd appreciate it because I can't
> >seem to achieve your results.
> >
> >1 - I cannot get a pcb to track through the machine accurately. The
> >cutter seems to hang the board up so that it feeds irregularly,
> >skewing sideways back and forth as it goes in and out of the machine.
> >This seems to be true whatever speed I select.
> >
> >2 - Most of the tracks I get are not completely through the copper. I
> >am using the highest setting on the cutter.
> >
> >I am using Gerbv to convert gerber files to svg, then importing the
> >svg files using the "Designer Edition" of the Sillhoute software. It
> >seems to work well, but the feed problems make it hard to tell if
> >everything is accurate. I ordered a pen holder for the machine, so I
> >should be able to use it as a plotter to see exactly what is happening.
> >
> >The machine looks like it would be very easy to modify to feed copper
> >clad reliably. All it should take is putting a few o rings on the
> >shaft for friction and removing the plastic rollers. Hopefully I'll
> >have time to take it apart over the weekend.
> >
> >Mark
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Sillhoute Cameo

2012-09-16 by Mike

Great work Mark. Yes, as you pointed, the PCB material HAS to bridge the two rollers and their mating grooves. They are adjustable but only so close together requiring a minimum width PCB blank. With the cardboard taped to the bottom side of the PCB material, the metal roller grooves have an extra bite and the drill bit (if used) won't go into the bottom of the machine. The reason for just two small hard plastic rollers is to concentrate all the spring force against the knurls section at those points rather than spread the force out, reducing the pinching force. A carrier for smaller PCB materials would be useful. That's one of the reasons for the mat that's included with the machine. Let me know how your experiments work out.

Thanks for the Zen motor URL but I'm nit sure 8500 rpm will do anything other than drill. The etching requires ~ >25 Krpm. If you find a faster motor+1/8"collet combination, it would be a welcome replacement to the flexible extension.

Yes, I think if you can control the friction in the Y-axis (ie - no discerable slip), these machines are a great, low cost way to get into the CNC world. I have a friend  I gave my Cricut to. I designed a quick ckt for use with Mach3. It uses the latest BigEasyStepper (2A, 35v and 16 microsteps) offered on Sparkfun.com to directly control the steppers and their 1A PWM motor driver for the solenoid.

Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> The problem with feeding bare copperclad is that it has to bridge two 
> of the knurled sections, so a large piece is required each time I 
> think I am getting excellent back and forth feed by using two o rings 
> on the top shaft, opposite the two knurled sections on the right. You 
> are right, however, that the rubber does not help since it is the 
> bottom roller that does all the work. Perhaps I'll put the plastic 
> back on. A nice mod would be to have the whole length of the bottom 
> roller textured so the copperclad could be any size.
> 
>   Hmmm, the top roller is spring loaded, so an easier approach might 
> be to use larger diameter plastic rollers on the top roller opposite 
> the textured areas, and use a thin, fixed size carrier. The 
> copperclad then sits on the carrier, held by double stick or even 
> registration pins, which would make double sided a snap. You could 
> even put in guide rails on each side.
> 
> If you are going to route the traces, I think some work has to be 
> done on the Z axis. Perhaps a stronger return spring and a LOT more 
> current through the solenoid. I think the dremel is fine for drilling 
> holes, but I'm not too keen on it for milling traces. Perhaps this 
> motor would be better 
> <http://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Zen-Toolworks-Machine-Holders/dp/B0039HCK6S>, 
> though it is $90 USD.
> 
> I like this machine as a reasonably well constructed XY table. It 
> could be used as a laser cutter, a plotter, pcb drill, light duty 
> router, etc; I think it might do better by converting it to a 
> standard cnc using Mach3 or some free software, but it's pretty neat 
> as it is!  BTW, here is a datasheet on the PM42S-096 steppers it uses 
> <http://www.nmbtc.com/motors/part-numbers/Permanent-Magnet-Stepper-3.75-degree/PM42S-096/4864>.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12:43 PM 9/15/2012, you wrote:
> >Great topics!
> >
> >One thing to know is that the Z-axis is just a solenoid with a 
> >spring return. A solenoid's force (-Z in this example) is 
> >proportional the the electrical power applied and how clost the soft 
> >iron slug (armature) is to the end of travel. This last I believe 
> >varies as the square of the penetration distance so the further you 
> >can get the slug to penetrate the solenoid, the higher the force. I 
> >measured between 4 and 7 volts on the solenoid, depending on 
> >"Thickness" selected. If you raise the inserted holder (be it for 
> >the swivel blade, pen, Dremel extension handpiece, etc), the 
> >downward force will increase until the solenoid bottoms out - with a 
> >metallic 'click'.
> >
> >Not sure what's hanging up in your machine to cause it to skew. 
> >Obviously something mechanica I'd guessl. In my hopefully educated 
> >opinion, I would NOT remove the plastic rollers as 
> >rubber/elastomeric ones will not exert enough pressure on the PCB. 
> >Also, of the two metal rods that pinch the PCB, ONLY the bottom one 
> >is driven so you will get little/no torque/force out of the top one 
> >or anything you mount to it. The downward spring tension on the top 
> >metal rod and rollers, pushing the PCB into the bottom metal rod's 
> >knurling (grooves),  is plenty to grab the material, IMHO. The 
> >purpose of this assembly is to force the material against the 
> >knurling on the bottom metal rod, the only thing transfering force 
> >to the material. Chosing "Enhanced Cut" will roll the PCB in and out 
> >(Y direction) wo hopefully wear a grooved path in the bottom of the 
> >material for additional friction. I have not needed this in the 
> >past. The copperclad against the grooves in the metal rollers gives 
> >you the best non-slip friction possible, in my opinion.  I believe 
> >rubber will encourage slipping.
> >
> >I think on my web site, I recommend 0.5 oz copperclad or thinner. I 
> >have had difficulty cutting through 1.0 Oz. I think Digikey sells 
> >this. Try Think and Tinker as a source for high speed carbide 
> >router, mill and drill bits. For the milling bits, I've had good 
> >results with the 30 deg ones. If you're trying the swivel knife 
> >approach, by all means go the 3rd party carbide blade route as the 
> >standard steel ones will wear out quickly. I have also found a 
> >source for paper backed copperclad instead of fiberglass, possibly 
> >extending the life of the blade. More later.
> >
> >I have tried converting the Gerber 274x files to svg and purchased 
> >the Designer Pro addition of the software but I'm not sure this is 
> >required as I'm getting great results with their raster-to-vector 
> >TRACE app included. I'd like to hear more if you get better results. 
> >Also, I've learned from Silhouette Support that very closely  spaced 
> >vector objects are drawn as one, possibly compromising small traces. 
> >This normally doesn't affect paper cutting other than being able to 
> >cut a lot faster through highly detailed, closely spaced 
> >vectors.  They have offered to make a firmware change for "us". What 
> >a great support team!
> >
> >Mike
> >
> > >I just received my Sillhoute Cameo and have a few first impressions.
> > >Mike, if you could chime in here I'd appreciate it because I can't
> > >seem to achieve your results.
> > >
> > >1 - I cannot get a pcb to track through the machine accurately. The
> > >cutter seems to hang the board up so that it feeds irregularly,
> > >skewing sideways back and forth as it goes in and out of the machine.
> > >This seems to be true whatever speed I select.
> > >
> > >2 - Most of the tracks I get are not completely through the copper. I
> > >am using the highest setting on the cutter.
> > >
> > >I am using Gerbv to convert gerber files to svg, then importing the
> > >svg files using the "Designer Edition" of the Sillhoute software. It
> > >seems to work well, but the feed problems make it hard to tell if
> > >everything is accurate. I ordered a pen holder for the machine, so I
> > >should be able to use it as a plotter to see exactly what is happening.
> > >
> > >The machine looks like it would be very easy to modify to feed copper
> > >clad reliably. All it should take is putting a few o rings on the
> > >shaft for friction and removing the plastic rollers. Hopefully I'll
> > >have time to take it apart over the weekend.
> > >
> > >Mark
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Sillhoute Cameo

2012-09-16 by tgr8883

I know this is a little off-topic, but I wanted to let everyone know that I've been successfully using a Silhouette SD to cut SMT stencils for a while now. I just swell the pads on the paste layer by -2 mil, then export as a DXF file. The ROBO Master software can import DXF's. From there, I make sure the scaling is correct, then send to the Silhouette which is loaded with a laser printer transparency (3 mil thick) on the cutting mat.

-Paul




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sinclair <sinclair@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Great topics!
> 
> One thing to know is that the Z-axis is just a solenoid with a spring return. A solenoid's force (-Z in this example) is proportional the the electrical power applied and how clost the soft iron slug (armature) is to the end of travel. This last I believe varies as the square of the penetration distance so the further you can get the slug to penetrate the solenoid, the higher the force. I measured between 4 and 7 volts on the solenoid, depending on "Thickness" selected. If you raise the inserted holder (be it for the swivel blade, pen, Dremel extension handpiece, etc), the downward force will increase until the solenoid bottoms out - with a metallic 'click'.
> 
> Not sure what's hanging up in your machine to cause it to skew. Obviously something mechanica I'd guessl. In my hopefully educated opinion, I would NOT remove the plastic rollers as rubber/elastomeric ones will not exert enough pressure on the PCB. Also, of the two metal rods that pinch the PCB, ONLY the bottom one is driven so you will get little/no torque/force out of the top one or anything you mount to it. The downward spring tension on the top metal rod and rollers, pushing the PCB into the bottom metal rod's knurling (grooves),  is plenty to grab the material, IMHO. The purpose of this assembly is to force the material against the knurling on the bottom metal rod, the only thing transfering force to the material. Chosing "Enhanced Cut" will roll the PCB in and out (Y direction) wo hopefully wear a grooved path in the bottom of the material for additional friction. I have not needed this in the past. The copperclad against the grooves in the metal rollers gives you the best non-slip friction possible, in my opinion.  I believe rubber will encourage slipping.
> 
> I think on my web site, I recommend 0.5 oz copperclad or thinner. I have had difficulty cutting through 1.0 Oz. I think Digikey sells this. Try Think and Tinker as a source for high speed carbide router, mill and drill bits. For the milling bits, I've had good results with the 30 deg ones. If you're trying the swivel knife approach, by all means go the 3rd party carbide blade route as the standard steel ones will wear out quickly. I have also found a source for paper backed copperclad instead of fiberglass, possibly extending the life of the blade. More later.
> 
> I have tried converting the Gerber 274x files to svg and purchased the Designer Pro addition of the software but I'm not sure this is required as I'm getting great results with their raster-to-vector TRACE app included. I'd like to hear more if you get better results. Also, I've learned from Silhouette Support that very closely  spaced vector objects are drawn as one, possibly compromising small traces. This normally doesn't affect paper cutting other than being able to cut a lot faster through highly detailed, closely spaced vectors.  They have offered to make a firmware change for "us". What a great support team!
> 
> Mike
> 
> >I just received my Sillhoute Cameo and have a few first impressions.
> >Mike, if you could chime in here I'd appreciate it because I can't
> >seem to achieve your results.
> >
> >1 - I cannot get a pcb to track through the machine accurately. The
> >cutter seems to hang the board up so that it feeds irregularly,
> >skewing sideways back and forth as it goes in and out of the machine.
> >This seems to be true whatever speed I select.
> >
> >2 - Most of the tracks I get are not completely through the copper. I
> >am using the highest setting on the cutter.
> >
> >I am using Gerbv to convert gerber files to svg, then importing the
> >svg files using the "Designer Edition" of the Sillhoute software. It
> >seems to work well, but the feed problems make it hard to tell if
> >everything is accurate. I ordered a pen holder for the machine, so I
> >should be able to use it as a plotter to see exactly what is happening.
> >
> >The machine looks like it would be very easy to modify to feed copper
> >clad reliably. All it should take is putting a few o rings on the
> >shaft for friction and removing the plastic rollers. Hopefully I'll
> >have time to take it apart over the weekend.
> >
> >Mark
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: Sillhoute Cameo - Small electric spindle

2012-09-17 by KalleP

Hi All,

> Great work Mark. Yes, as you pointed, the PCB material HAS to
> bridge the two rollers and their mating grooves. They are 
> adjustable but only so close together requiring a minimum width PCB
> blank. With the cardboard taped to the bottom side of the PCB 
> material, the metal roller grooves have an extra bite and the drill 
> bit (if used) won't go into the bottom of the machine. The reason 
> for just two small hard plastic rollers is to concentrate all the 
> spring force against the knurls section at those points rather than 
> spread the force out, reducing the pinching force. A carrier for 
> smaller PCB materials would be useful. That's one of the reasons 
> for the mat that's included with the machine. Let me know how your 
> experiments work out.

How about a small modification to make a proper Y axis bed.
Using suitable guide rollers (bearings) to keep a carrier aligned and then a timing belt gear instead of the grit/knurled roller.  Fit and tension two lengths of timing belt below the bed that run on the gears.

> Thanks for the Zen motor URL but I'm nit sure 8500 rpm will do 
> anything other than drill. The etching requires ~ >25 Krpm. If you 
> find a faster motor+1/8"collet combination, it would be a welcome 
> replacement to the flexible extension.

I have ordered a replacement motor for a Dremel multi tool.  They have a range (series 800 and 8000 in some locales) of Li-ion cordless tools that use 10.8V to match the 3-cell batteries.  The price was so low I did not write it down but I remember it being around US$30 or so.  The motor comes with the collet taper and an external shaft steady bearing.  They are not high power by any measure but are rated for 30k+ RPM. I know a commercial PCB fab here in South Africa used to use the mains multi tools for PCB drilling years ago, he regularly replaced the bushes and brushes from continuous use.

They are similar in size to the small Roland engravers (MDX-15/20 I think is the model) but must be cheaper than the Roland replacement parts, US$650 for the yummy ones. The 3rd party site below has some prices and most of the Roland units have the motor and spindle belt driven. 
http://www.advancedcolorsolutions.com/accessories/roland-engravers/engraver-spindles

You can look at the exploded view of the one model on the spare parts site www.powertools-aftersalesservice.com/public/dremel and enter the following as the part number of the search, be patient, the site loads slowly (for me at least).
F 013 800 067 

Any ideas on the life one could expect for a cheaply light weight spindle.  I saw some 800W spindles with a real collet taper on eBay for US$80 but they are too big for a Cricut :-)

> I designed a quick ckt for use with Mach3. It uses the latest 
> BigEasyStepper (2A, 35v and 16 microsteps) offered on Sparkfun.com 
> to directly control the steppers and their 1A PWM motor driver for 
> the solenoid.

This is the brute force method that will work, using the built in controller with new firmware should be a cleaner solution if the protocol cannot be reverse engineered.

My wife recently got a Cricut as a hand me down and while it can do what they want it is irritating to have the controller protocol locked.  Two commercial fixes were closed down. There have been two private projects to make it work.  

One guy reprogrammed the AVR processor to change the protocol (Freecut). The readme file is on the github landing page.
https://github.com/Arlet/Freecut

The other is a Linux (libcutter) driver from what I could make out, seems like it is working to some extent.
http://built-to-spec.com/cricutwiki

There is an interesting dissection as well. 
http://www.built-to-spec.com/blog/2010/02/27/cricut-personal-dissection/ 

Then there is a long thread on the RepRap forum.
http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?128,1496

Be interesting is any on this list have the time to check.  My wife will not let me experiment on her cutter unless I can confirm that it will work on her Mac when I am done.

Kalle
--
Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Sillhoute Cameo - Small electric spindle

2012-09-24 by KalleP

> How about a small modification to make a proper Y axis bed.
> Using suitable guide rollers (bearings) to keep a carrier aligned and then a timing belt gear instead of the grit/knurled roller.  Fit and tension two lengths of timing belt below the bed that run on the gears.

Saw a similar idea used here.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/549478-post668.html

Kalle
--
Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Sillhoute Cameo - Small electric spindle

2012-09-24 by Mike Sinclair

Cool.

A number of older XY plotters used this method. The place where the cable was wrapped was actually a roller with a helix groove in it with enough wrap-turns that the middle of the cable on the roller was screw-anchored so friction was never a problem - it couldn't slip. String encoders work this way. I'd guess with this method you couldn't have the wire running down the middle but need two at each end of the roller bar so the head could move back and forth and you push/pulled both sides.

What about using a timing belt, much like the X-axis uses. Cut two lengths and flatten them out and glue it to each side of a carrier board. Mount timing pulleys with their cheeks sanded off on the rollers and you'd have a double rack and pinion system.

Mike

>Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:16 am (PDT) . Posted by:
>"KalleP" idyllicpress <mailto:kalle@...?subject=Re%3A%20Sillhoute%20Cameo%20-%20Small%20electric%20spindle>
>> How about a small modification to make a proper Y axis bed.
>> Using suitable guide rollers (bearings) to keep a carrier aligned and then a timing belt gear instead of the grit/knurled roller. Fit and tension two lengths of >>timing belt below the bed that run on the gears.
>
>Saw a similar idea used here.
>
>http://www.cnczone.com/forums/549478-post668.html
>
>Kalle
>--
>Johannesburg, South Africa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.