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2003-11-05 by Les Newell
Hi, Does anyone know of a source of HCl in the UK? I would like to have a go at using cupric chloride etching. I had a look in building material suppliers but all they sell is 'concrete cleaner' that is quite dilute and has lots of detergent in it. TIA, Les
2003-11-05 by Stuart Winsor
In article <00a701c3a3dd$a16b75a0$0c00a8c0@house>, Les Newell <lesnewell@...> wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know of a source of HCl in the UK? I would like to have a go > at using cupric chloride etching. I used to be able to get it at my local chemist (a small independent) but he stopped keeping it because of some change in the rules. You could try http://www.raycochemicals.f9.co.uk who specialise is selling photographic chemicals to the amateur. They certainly list 10% HCl. I don't know how strong you need. I would be interested to know how you get on as I used to add a little to my Ferric Chloride when it was getting a bit "tired" Stuart -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ stuartwinsor@... 101 uses for a Pentium: No2 - A greenhouse heater.
2003-11-06 by Adam Seychell
Lookup industrial chemical suppliers in the yellow pages, and find someone selling in 20 liter drums of concentrated HCl (33%wt), its cheap. HCl is not a bomb making material so I can't see it being tightly regulated. Maybe the UK government had for some reason stopped HCl being sold in the domestic market. Adam Les Newell wrote:
> Hi, > > Does anyone know of a source of HCl in the UK? I would like to have a go at > using cupric chloride etching. > > I had a look in building material suppliers but all they sell is 'concrete > cleaner' that is quite dilute and has lots of detergent in it. > > TIA, > Les > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2003-11-06 by Leon Heller
>From: Adam Seychell <adam_seychell@...> >Reply-To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com >To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Sources for HCl >Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:26:09 +1100 > >Lookup industrial chemical suppliers in the yellow pages, and >find someone selling in 20 liter drums of concentrated HCl >(33%wt), its cheap. HCl is not a bomb making material so I can't >see it being tightly regulated. Maybe the UK government had for >some reason stopped HCl being sold in the domestic market. I got some from an old-fashioned hardware store here in Hastings, packed in a red plastic bottle by Blanchards (who also do NaOH). Ask for 'Spirits of Salts'. It's sold for cleaning drains and descaling lavatories. It's 32% and rather nasty - lots of fumes. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM Tel: +44 1424 423947 Email: aqzf13 at dsl dot pipex dot com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
2003-11-06 by Les Newell
Thanks to all who replied. Unfortunately I can't find any old fashioned hardware stores around here any more and I am only experimenting ATM so 25l is slightly overkill. I might give stuart's photography supplier a try. Thanks, Les
2003-11-06 by Adam Seychell
If that fails then still phone industrial chemical suppliers. Ask them what quantities they sell, and if they don't do 5 liter containers then they might be the best people to ask where you might get the stuff. After all, they are in the chemical business. Adam Les Newell wrote:
> Thanks to all who replied. > > Unfortunately I can't find any old fashioned hardware stores around here any > more and I am only experimenting ATM so 25l is slightly overkill. I might > give stuart's photography supplier a try. > > Thanks, > Les > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2003-11-06 by Stuart Winsor
In article <3FA99521.6000800@...>, Adam Seychell <adam_seychell@...> wrote: > Lookup industrial chemical suppliers in the yellow pages, and > find someone selling in 20 liter drums of concentrated HCl > (33%wt), its cheap. HCl is not a bomb making material so I can't > see it being tightly regulated. Maybe the UK government had for > some reason stopped HCl being sold in the domestic market. I don't think it was a problem so much with it's sale, I don't /think/ it even comes under any aspect of the poisons regulations. I think it was tied up with safety legislation. Possibly to do with storage and I don't think it was something he needed for himself so he decided not to keep it. Could even have been tied up with liability towards a customer if they did something silly, it's too long ago for me to remember exactly what he said. It was probably around the time all the COSHH (control of substances hazardous to health) legislation was introduced. Stuart -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ stuartwinsor@... 101 uses for a Pentium: No2 - A greenhouse heater.
2003-11-06 by JanRwl@AOL.COM
In a message dated 11/5/2003 10:53:07 PM Central Standard Time, leon_heller@... writes: It's 32% and rather nasty - lots of fumes. [HCL] Leon (and others!): "Nasty" is an UNDERstatement! Even if the stuff is kept in a CLOSED bottle, ANYthing with any iron in it, probably even SOME "stainless" alloys, will RUST, if located within three meters of this stuff in a closed room, within a week! The caveat, "Keep such OUTdoors!" is not just a "safety matter", but is good advice in the interest of keeping brand-new tools and machinery LOOKING that way! Jan Rowland [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-11-06 by Stuart Winsor
In article <3FAA1370.4010003@...>, Adam Seychell <adam_seychell@...> wrote: > If that fails then still phone industrial chemical > suppliers. Ask them what quantities they sell, and if they > don't do 5 liter containers then they might be the best > people to ask where you might get the stuff. After all, they > are in the chemical business. You're really looking for a laboratory supplier. When I used work in a chemistry lab we used to buy in 2.5l winchesters (large glass bottles) or for HCl I remember 1l glass bottles. Nowadays it would probably be polythene or such I guess. I seem to remember Fisons as a supplier but the name "Griffin and George" comes to mind, though I think that was more for equipment. I suppose you know that Farnell sell things like beakers, measuring cylinders and other useful chemistry type stuff? What is the "mix", or process for cupric chloride etching BTW - I've only ever used Ferric Chloride. Stuart. -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ stuartwinsor@... 101 uses for a Pentium: No2 - A greenhouse heater.
2003-11-06 by Adam Seychell
Get a better bottle :) A PET soft drink bottle are better at holding gases. I know what you mean though, the concentrated stuff just seems to seep its way passed anything other than good quality rubber washer sealed bottle tops. The standard polyethylene foam seals of common bottle tops don't hold out. JanRwl@... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/5/2003 10:53:07 PM Central Standard Time, > leon_heller@... writes: > It's 32% and rather nasty - lots of fumes. [HCL] > Leon (and others!): "Nasty" is an UNDERstatement! Even if the stuff is kept > in a CLOSED bottle, ANYthing with any iron in it, probably even SOME > "stainless" alloys, will RUST, if located within three meters of this stuff in a > closed room, within a week! > > The caveat, "Keep such OUTdoors!" is not just a "safety matter", but is good > advice in the interest of keeping brand-new tools and machinery LOOKING that > way! > > Jan Rowland > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2003-11-07 by Les Newell
Hi Stuart, I am taking my recipe from here: http://www.pacificsun.ca/~robert/pcb/cucl.htm The only difference is that I am using methylene orange rather than bromophenol blue because it is cheaper and I can get it. The PH ranges for the two indicators seem to be virtually identical so methylene orange should be a good substitute. You don't have to use copper oxide. You can add scrap copper to the acid and leave it in a bubble tank for a couple of weeks. I have heard that a table spoon of used ferric chloride speeds things up. In the end I ordered from www.labpakchemicals.co.uk as they could supply everything I wanted at a reasonable price. I tried phoning a local chemical supplier and their prices were about the same but they had a 2 week lead time. The only disadvantage with labpak is that they have a 50 pound minimum order but I made that up with sulphuric acid for anodizing and some flourescein for a friend to trace a drain with. Flourescein is pretty harmless but even the slightest trace in water shows up bright green. As a kid I added some to a swimming pool once. The whole pool ended up flourescent green :-) Oh, by the way I have found a great way of removing ferric chloride deposits. I was given a tank that was in a terrible state but a few hours soaking in concrete cleaner brought it up like new. I know about Farnell. I have an account with RS components and they sell quite a bit of chemistry type stuff as well. Les
> > You're really looking for a laboratory supplier. When I used work in a > chemistry lab we used to buy in 2.5l winchesters (large glass bottles) or > for HCl I remember 1l glass bottles. Nowadays it would probably be > polythene or such I guess. I seem to remember Fisons as a supplier but the > name "Griffin and George" comes to mind, though I think that was more for > equipment. > > I suppose you know that Farnell sell things like beakers, measuring > cylinders and other useful chemistry type stuff? > > What is the "mix", or process for cupric chloride etching BTW - I've only > ever used Ferric Chloride. > > Stuart. >
2003-11-07 by Stuart Winsor
In article <009901c3a563$98f0f760$0c00a8c0@house>, Les Newell <lesnewell@...> wrote: > Hi Stuart, I am taking my recipe from here: > http://www.pacificsun.ca/~robert/pcb/cucl.htm Couldn't get anywhere with that link I'm afraid. My browser tried and after a long time gave up. I'll try again another time - the site may be temporarily down. > The only difference is that I am using methylene orange rather than > bromophenol blue because it is cheaper and I can get it. The PH ranges > for the two indicators seem to be virtually identical so methylene > orange should be a good substitute. It's two long now for me to remember the different charachtaristics of indicators and my books are all in the loft. > You don't have to use copper oxide. You can add scrap copper to the acid > and leave it in a bubble tank for a couple of weeks. I have heard that a > table spoon of used ferric chloride speeds things up. > In the end I ordered from www.labpakchemicals.co.uk as they could supply > everything I wanted at a reasonable price. Looks interesting > I tried phoning a local > chemical supplier and their prices were about the same but they had a 2 > week lead time. The only disadvantage with labpak is that they have a 50 > pound minimum order I'd have to think hard about how to make that value up I think. > but I made that up with sulphuric acid for anodizing I remember seing a "how to do it" article in Elektor some years ago - I've still got it somewhere - looked interesting but obtaining chemicals seemed to be a problem > and some flourescein for a friend to trace a drain with. Flourescein is > pretty harmless but even the slightest trace in water shows up bright > green. As a kid I added some to a swimming pool once. The whole pool > ended up flourescent green :-) Ahh yes, tell me about it :-) > Oh, by the way I have found a great way of removing ferric chloride > deposits. I was given a tank that was in a terrible state but a few > hours soaking in concrete cleaner brought it up like new. Thanks for the tip. > I know about Farnell. I have an account with RS components and they sell > quite a bit of chemistry type stuff as well. That's new with the latest catalogue. Farnell have had the stuff "for years" I use both and CPC too. Do you know about http://www.megauk.com/ ? for PCB stuff Stuart -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ stuartwinsor@... 101 uses for a Pentium: No2 - A greenhouse heater.
2003-11-08 by Steve
These and many more links can be yours, just for visiting the Links on the list! Just pull back the curtain on "Acid etching tips and suppliers"! OK, it's late, I'm getting goofy. Steve Greenfield --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Les Newell" <lesnewell@f...> wrote: > Hi Stuart, > I am taking my recipe from here: > http://www.pacificsun.ca/~robert/pcb/cucl.htm -snip- > > What is the "mix", or process for cupric chloride etching BTW - I've only
> > ever used Ferric Chloride. > > > > Stuart. > >
2003-11-08 by Stuart Winsor
In article <boi3cl+am9c@...>, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote: > These and many more links can be yours, just for visiting the Links on > the list! > Just pull back the curtain on "Acid etching tips and suppliers"! Sorry for my ignorance Steve but being a newbie around here how do I find this? Stuart. -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ stuartwinsor@... 101 uses for a Pentium: No2 - A greenhouse heater.
2003-11-08 by Dave Mucha
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Winsor <stuartwinsor@a...> wrote: > In article <boi3cl+am9c@e...>, > Steve <alienrelics@y...> wrote: > > These and many more links can be yours, just for visiting the Links on > > the list! > > > Just pull back the curtain on "Acid etching tips and suppliers"! > > Sorry for my ignorance Steve but being a newbie around here how do I find > this? > > Stuart. Visit the website instead of the e-mail version of the list. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/ then go to the links section. and presto ! bunchs of links. Dave
2003-11-08 by Steve
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Winsor <stuartwinsor@a...> wrote: > In article <boi3cl+am9c@e...>, > Steve <alienrelics@y...> wrote: > > These and many more links can be yours, just for visiting the Links on > > the list! > > > Just pull back the curtain on "Acid etching tips and suppliers"! > > Sorry for my ignorance Steve but being a newbie around here how do I find > this? Go to the Homebrew_PCBs group page and click on "Links", then "Acid Etching Tips and Suppliers". The link itself is too long, and you have to be logged in first anyway, so here's the home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs Steve Greenfield