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2013-05-12 by dave_donlan
Hi guys I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate 15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about a 60 secs hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler just sloshing about but the problem is the protective layer is coming off after a few minuets of etching hydrochloric is 30% peroxide is 9% Any advice please Dave
2013-05-12 by Leon Heller
On 12/05/2013 15:07, dave_donlan wrote: > Hi guys > I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate > > 15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about a 60 secs > > hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler just sloshing about but > the problem is the protective layer is coming off after a few minuets of > etching > > hydrochloric is 30% > peroxide is 9% Use a test strip with a range of exposure times to get the correct exposure. Leon -- Leon Heller G1HSM
2013-05-12 by Harvey White
On Sun, 12 May 2013 14:07:11 -0000, you wrote: >Hi guys >I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate > >15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about a 60 secs UV photo stuff exposes from the top down, you may not have exposed the resist enough. Did you do a test series of exposures, either through a variable filter or by progressively uncovering the board? > >hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler just sloshing about but the problem is the protective layer is coming off after a few minuets of etching > >hydrochloric is 30% >peroxide is 9% Proportion is about 1 part HCL to 3 or 4 parts H2O2 (assuming drug store strength peroxide)? Harvey
> >Any advice please >Dave
2013-05-12 by cunningfellow
> dave wrote: > > I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate > 15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about > a 60 secs As other have said, if you have not done a test strip you should. Is it positive or negative acting and what brand photopolymer? Most of them recommend stripping in lye and developing in sodium silicate or sodium carbonate. > hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler > just sloshing about but the problem is the > protective layer is coming off after a few > minuets of etching > > hydrochloric is 30% > peroxide is 9% > > Any advice please It's probably nothing to do with the etchant. Most likely under exposed if it is negative acting resist. Negative resist can be hard on top and soft underneath. Could be the sodium hydroxide soaking in and continuing to weaken if it is positive resist. Acid/stopbath it or switch to sodium silicate. All this is assuming that the boards are pre coated professionally and not being coated or laminated by yourself. If you are doing the lamination by yourself there are a whole range of other problems it could be.
2013-05-12 by Paul
Dave It does of course depend on the UV source and the photo board but 15s sounds far too short. Using laser printed art work on acetate, with my UV box (2 x 8W tubes) and using pre coated board (usually from Mega Electronics) I need about 3 minutes. But as folk have suggested try a test strip. http://www.piclist.com/tecHREF/piclist/biketut/chapter3.html#zzee_link_9_1019487419 Paul On 12/05/2013 15:07, dave_donlan wrote: > > Hi guys > I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate > > 15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about a 60 secs > > hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler just sloshing about > but the problem is the protective layer is coming off after a few > minuets of etching > > hydrochloric is 30% > peroxide is 9% > > Any advice please > Dave > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6317 - Release Date: 05/11/13 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-13 by tda7000
Totally agree. 15 seconds seems very short. With a bunch of fairly standard UV LEDs my Chinese eBay resist takes about 6-7 minutes to expose well. I also let it cure in the dark for a few minutes after exposing. I also do another few minutes under UV and let it cure again after developing, before etching. I have had the resist come off before in the developer when it was under-developed or the developer was too hot. But if it stands up to that, I have not yet had a problem with it falling off during etching. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Paul <paul@...> wrote:
> > Dave > > It does of course depend on the UV source and the photo board but 15s > sounds far too short. > > Using laser printed art work on acetate, with my UV box (2 x 8W tubes) > and using pre coated board (usually from Mega Electronics) I need about > 3 minutes. > > But as folk have suggested try a test strip. > > http://www.piclist.com/tecHREF/piclist/biketut/chapter3.html#zzee_link_9_1019487419 > > Paul > > On 12/05/2013 15:07, dave_donlan wrote: > > > > Hi guys > > I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate > > > > 15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about a 60 secs > > > > hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler just sloshing about > > but the problem is the protective layer is coming off after a few > > minuets of etching > > > > hydrochloric is 30% > > peroxide is 9% > > > > Any advice please > > Dave > > > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6317 - Release Date: 05/11/13 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2013-05-13 by Todd F. Carney / K7TFC
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Paul <paul@...> wrote: > It does of course depend on the UV source and the photo board but 15s sounds > far too short. I also agree. Back in the 70s, I used an old arc-light unit--complete with carbon rods--that put out blinding light . . . I mean, really, really bright, and because it was from an arc, it was super rich in UV--of all kinds. Still, with that powerhouse exposure unit, it took at lest 90 seconds for an acceptable PCB exposure with pretty-much the same type of emulsions used today. If there weren't any fine lines on the board, I'd give it another 30 seconds. I'm not even sure 15 seconds of direct exposure to the sun would be enough. In fact, I think per square centimeter that old arc light was brighter than the sun. Best , Todd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ QRP (CW & SSB) / EmComm / SOTA / Homebrew / Design [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-13 by James
I'll assume you're using the cheap readily available negative exposure dry film. As others have said, 15 seconds, sounds too short. I use about 2m30s with doubled tracing paper and UV leds, I think last time I used the sun (too big a board for my box) I put it out for about 5 minutes. You should be using Washing Soda (Sodium Carbonate) to develop somewhere in the region of 20g/Litre - 5 minutes and a bit of a rub. In fact I use it to strip as well (just warm up a stronger solution for stripping, soak 1/2 an hour, and the resist will float away), it takes longer but it's safer in all respects. Sodium Carbonate is available at your nearest supermarket, look in the laundry aisle for "natural" products, read the label, there'll be one there that is probably 100% Sodium Carbonate for sure. For hobbiest purposes, there is piles of lee-way with long exposures, if your artwork is sufficiently high contrast. When exposed, the traces are clearly visible. I'd suggest doing some small test pieces (something that has traces about as thin and closely spaced as you would want to use, like a SO16 breakout or something) to see how long an exposure you can get away with before you start seeing trouble. You're a hobbiest right so no need to be crazy precise, mark-one-eyeball it. Start with say 3 minutes, if it looks too-far-gone, try the next one 2 minutes, if it looks ok, try one at 4 minutes. I think you'll be surprised just how long an exposure you can "get away with". Also, try using the doubled-tracing paper artwork. Way cheaper than acetate. On 13/05/13 02:07, dave_donlan wrote: > > Hi guys > I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate > > 15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about a 60 secs > > hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler just sloshing about > but the problem is the protective layer is coming off after a few > minuets of etching > > hydrochloric is 30% > peroxide is 9% > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-13 by Harvey White
On Mon, 13 May 2013 13:50:15 +1200, you wrote: >I'll assume you're using the cheap readily available negative exposure >dry film. > >As others have said, 15 seconds, sounds too short. I use about 2m30s >with doubled tracing paper and UV leds, I think last time I used the sun >(too big a board for my box) I put it out for about 5 minutes. Take a strip of board, use a file or knife to score the board at about half inch intervals. Put your image on top. Put a piece of cardboard or something guaranteed opaque on top of the board covering all but the last piece as marked by the scoring on the board. Expose for half a minute. Move the cardboard over a notch, expose for half a minute. Do this until you have the last notch on the board exposed for half a minute. Each successive notch will be exposed for 30 seconds more. You should get an idea of what the best exposure is fairly easily. There's a piece of special film made for enlarging photographs with a pie pattern on it. Each segment is a different shade of gray, letting in progressively less light. One long exposure with that would do the trick as well. Make sure you have detail as fine as you want for the process. Harvey
> >You should be using Washing Soda (Sodium Carbonate) to develop somewhere >in the region of 20g/Litre - 5 minutes and a bit of a rub. In fact I >use it to strip as well (just warm up a stronger solution for stripping, >soak 1/2 an hour, and the resist will float away), it takes longer but >it's safer in all respects. Sodium Carbonate is available at your >nearest supermarket, look in the laundry aisle for "natural" products, >read the label, there'll be one there that is probably 100% Sodium >Carbonate for sure. > >For hobbiest purposes, there is piles of lee-way with long exposures, if >your artwork is sufficiently high contrast. When exposed, the traces >are clearly visible. I'd suggest doing some small test pieces >(something that has traces about as thin and closely spaced as you would >want to use, like a SO16 breakout or something) to see how long an >exposure you can get away with before you start seeing trouble. You're >a hobbiest right so no need to be crazy precise, mark-one-eyeball it. >Start with say 3 minutes, if it looks too-far-gone, try the next one 2 >minutes, if it looks ok, try one at 4 minutes. I think you'll be >surprised just how long an exposure you can "get away with". > >Also, try using the doubled-tracing paper artwork. Way cheaper than >acetate. > > > >On 13/05/13 02:07, dave_donlan wrote: >> >> Hi guys >> I am using UV exposure method on clear acetate >> >> 15 secs exposure caustic soda developer about a 60 secs >> >> hydrochloric acid / peroxide etchant no bubbler just sloshing about >> but the problem is the protective layer is coming off after a few >> minuets of etching >> >> hydrochloric is 30% >> peroxide is 9% >> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-13 by smilingcat90254
One thing not mentioned so far is to cure the image after exposure-development. After the image is developed on the board, some recommend to cure the remaining resist by exposing the image to harden the image. Some resist may not be compatible with this step so check first. Another issue is resist adhesion. Lots of discussion on this too. I always wear rubber glove to keep the board free of oil from my hand and to keep chemicals off my hand. Some even have recommended to mildly pre-etch the blank then apply the resist. And so on... If you want to be accurate with exposure, you might want to use Stouffer's 21 step exposure guide. do a google search if you want one.
2013-05-13 by dave_donlan
cheers for the advice I will try another test strip but go over longer time. The uv box is a converted scanner with four UV 9W tubes from a nail curing unit The boards are positive photo from Maplins it is clear acetate lazer printer. I print 2 images to double up the thickness Dave --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@...> wrote:
> > One thing not mentioned so far is to cure the image after exposure-development. > > After the image is developed on the board, some recommend to cure the remaining resist by exposing the image to harden the image. Some resist may not be compatible with this step so check first. > > Another issue is resist adhesion. Lots of discussion on this too. I always wear rubber glove to keep the board free of oil from my hand and to keep chemicals off my hand. Some even have recommended to mildly pre-etch the blank then apply the resist. And so on... > > If you want to be accurate with exposure, you might want to use Stouffer's 21 step exposure guide. do a google search if you want one. >
2013-05-13 by cunningfellow
> dave wrote: > <SNIP> > The boards are positive photo from Maplins > <SNIP> Well in that case def. do not use lye. Maplins might recomend it on the web page, but the manufacturer recomends sodium silicate on the package of the pre sensitized boards. Sodium silicate is a lot more fogriving. With lye if you have the temp. too high the entire thing will just strip instantly. If you under exposed positive resist then EVERY thing should have stayed on. As everyone has said 15s is probably too short. Too short an exposure with positive and you will get a completly covered board.
2013-05-13 by Paul
Hi Dave Maplin board! I nearly mentioned that when I replied before. I have had terrible problems with some batches from the local branch. I think some of it may sit on the shelf for a long time. I only go and buy it as a last resort if I really have nothing left in stock and need some board in a hurry. I have found that Maplin board needs even longer exposure times. One batch needed 8 minutes here. The Mega Electronics pre-sensitised board has always been consistent & reliable. http://www.megauk.com/pcb_laminates.php Never bothered printing double. LaserStar (from Mega) works really well. http://www.megauk.com/artwork_films.php But since work scrapped all their overhead projectors some time ago I have quite a bit of OHP transparency film which I use for less critical boards. Regards Paul On 13/05/2013 19:36, dave_donlan wrote: > > cheers for the advice I will try another test strip but go over longer > time. > The uv box is a converted scanner with four UV 9W tubes from a nail > curing unit > The boards are positive photo from Maplins > it is clear acetate lazer printer. I print 2 images to double up the > thickness > Dave > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "smilingcat90254" > <smilingcat@...> wrote: > > > > One thing not mentioned so far is to cure the image after > exposure-development. > > > > After the image is developed on the board, some recommend to cure > the remaining resist by exposing the image to harden the image. Some > resist may not be compatible with this step so check first. > > > > Another issue is resist adhesion. Lots of discussion on this too. I > always wear rubber glove to keep the board free of oil from my hand > and to keep chemicals off my hand. Some even have recommended to > mildly pre-etch the blank then apply the resist. And so on... > > > > If you want to be accurate with exposure, you might want to use > Stouffer's 21 step exposure guide. do a google search if you want one. > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6319 - Release Date: 05/12/13 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-13 by Harvey White
On Mon, 13 May 2013 18:36:03 -0000, you wrote: >cheers for the advice I will try another test strip but go over longer time. >The uv box is a converted scanner with four UV 9W tubes from a nail curing unit >The boards are positive photo from Maplins >it is clear acetate lazer printer. I print 2 images to double up the thickness As a complete guess on the exposure, look for a good exposure to be 3 to 4 minutes. This is based on my own experiences, different photoresist, more UV light (perhaps). I do think that 15 seconds is way too small. Positive photoresist is a polymer (long chain molecules). It is damaged (read unlinked, read broken apart) by UV light. This happens from the top down to the board surface. The mask prevents that from happening. Under UV light, the top down starts to change into a form that can be dissolved. Note that the stripper is just a more concentrated solution, so we're dealing with degrees, not absolutes. Underexpose, and with too strong a developer, you tend to strip the board. That very thin layer of photoresist may not work to keep the etchant away. You may want to check the strength of your developer. IIRC, it took very little time (15 to 30 seconds) to "develop" photoresist. Harvey
>Dave > >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "smilingcat90254" <smilingcat@...> wrote: >> >> One thing not mentioned so far is to cure the image after exposure-development. >> >> After the image is developed on the board, some recommend to cure the remaining resist by exposing the image to harden the image. Some resist may not be compatible with this step so check first. >> >> Another issue is resist adhesion. Lots of discussion on this too. I always wear rubber glove to keep the board free of oil from my hand and to keep chemicals off my hand. Some even have recommended to mildly pre-etch the blank then apply the resist. And so on... >> >> If you want to be accurate with exposure, you might want to use Stouffer's 21 step exposure guide. do a google search if you want one. >> >
2013-05-14 by Mitch Davis
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:36 AM, dave_donlan <dhd01@...> wrote: > cheers for the advice I will try another test strip but go over longer time. > > it is clear acetate lazer printer. I print 2 images to double up the thickness My 2c: When making boards at home I print onto drafting paper. 8mil is no problem: http://capnstech.blogspot.com/2011/05/playpause-making-pcbs-at-home.html Drafting paper is transparent to UV, and I worry less when it goes through the printer. (And now my plug: I supply pro-quality PCBs, double sided everything, 10 boards for USD19 inc worldwide delivery. http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq) Mitch.
2013-05-14 by Jeff Heiss
Do you mean $19 per board when 10 boards are ordered ($190 total)? What is the cost for one or two boards? Jeff _____
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Davis Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:56 PM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: photo layer coming off On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:36 AM, dave_donlan <dhd01@... <mailto:dhd01%40live.co.uk> > wrote: > cheers for the advice I will try another test strip but go over longer time. > > it is clear acetate lazer printer. I print 2 images to double up the thickness My 2c: When making boards at home I print onto drafting paper. 8mil is no problem: http://capnstech.blogspot.com/2011/05/playpause-making-pcbs-at-home.html Drafting paper is transparent to UV, and I worry less when it goes through the printer. (And now my plug: I supply pro-quality PCBs, double sided everything, 10 boards for USD19 inc worldwide delivery. http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq) Mitch. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-14 by Mitch Davis
Hello Jeff, hello homebrewing PCB folks. First, something on-topic: When I was getting started with home etching, I also made a test strip. I used my CAD program (KiCad) to place 10 SOIC-14 footprints at 1-inch intervals, and wired each chip to its neighbours with traces of various thicknesses. After printing (see the blog entry from my last group email), I made marks at 1-inch intervals on the back of the blank board. Then I got two pieces of card, and slipped the blank between them with only the last inch hanging out. Off to my UV light, and I started a timer. Every thirty seconds I pulled out another inch, so that after about five minutes, I'd exposed all of the strip. I then developed and etched it. What I found was that for my UV light setup, and the blank I was using, 2½-3 minutes was fine. I was able to get reliable 8mil traces through drafting paper with only one run through the printer. (I should point out that my making of boards at home is entirely unconnected to the professional PCBs I supply to customers) On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...> wrote: > > Do you mean $19 per board when 10 boards are ordered ($190 total)? Haha, oh goodness no! I wouldn't do any business! That's USD19 total for 10 boards. As an example, this customer paid me the Australian equivalent of USD19 for these boards: http://nanibox.com/2013/03/kurobox-prototype/ He also paid USD3 for registered shipping, but that's it. (He and I are both Australian so it was easier for us this way). According to my records, for his order, I checked and processed his order same day, board manufacture took 3 days, and shipping was 7 days. There are some other important details: That's the up-to-5x5cm price, and for Paypal it's +5%. For more info, read my guide: http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq > What is the cost for one or two boards? I have a 10-for-5 offer for boards that are up to 5x5cm (USD19), and 10-for-5 on up to 10x10cm (USD36, but smaller sizes are cheaper. Also, thinner is cheaper). If you're really only after one or two, 'm very happy to make 5 and throw 3 or 4 away before shipping them to you. Or you can give them to budding engineers or use them for SMT soldering practice. Oh, and here's another happy customer: http://electronics.ozonejunkie.com/2012/11/pcb-manufacture/ His boards were also USD19, but he also paid me USD25 for DHL. If you're greedy, you can visit these too: http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4722 http://dangerousprototypes.com/2012/12/06/workshop-video-interview-with-mitch-from-hackvana/ Talking to my customers is the highlight of my day. I have a 24-hour live chatroom where several dozen of my customers hang out and talk about electronics, give feedback to each other on their PCB designs, and generally have a good time. You're all welcome to join (see my guide). Like most of you I'm an engineer and a tinkerer. I love making stuff, and I get a buzz out of helping others to make stuff. Lest I wear out my welcome here, if you'd like to know more, please send me a private email, or come chat with me and other customers in the chat room. Regards, Mitch.
2013-05-14 by Paul
Hi Mitch More power to you, it's a really great idea to have someone on the ground as an "interface" between Europe/USA and the Chinese PCB makers although I do have a great Chinese friend in HK who is into specialist electronics manufacturing and who helps me out. A couple of questions How about a sideline in supplying some PCB materials for us homebrew hackers? Pre-sensitised board is expensive here and solder resist laminate film is expensive and very difficult to find in small quantities. What kind of costs for a solder paste mask? (I saw somewhere you can supply them) Do you miss the Fosters? Ooops that's three questions..... Regards Paul On 14/05/2013 05:44, Mitch Davis wrote: > > Hello Jeff, hello homebrewing PCB folks. > > > > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@... > <mailto:jeff.heiss%40comcast.net>> wrote: > > > > Do you mean $19 per board when 10 boards are ordered ($190 total)? > > Haha, oh goodness no! I wouldn't do any business! That's USD19 total > for 10 boards. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-14 by Mitch Davis
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Paul <paul@...> wrote: > > More power to you, it's a really great idea to have someone on the > ground as an "interface" between Europe/USA and the Chinese PCB makers > although That's what I do. I speak Chinese so you don't have to. I check boards thoroughly and give a report on each one. This saves you a lot of time and money. And I'm there to make sure the fabs do a great job every time. >I do have a great Chinese friend in HK who is into specialist > electronics manufacturing and who helps me out. I'd be interested in talking to him, as I don't have good contacts for assembly. > How about a sideline in supplying some PCB materials for us homebrew > hackers? Pre-sensitised board is expensive here and solder resist > laminate film is expensive and very difficult to find in small quantities. I'd really love to. One issue is freight. Fibreglass is extremely heavy. Freight for a few boards can often end up more than for the boards. For another issue, see below. > What kind of costs for a solder paste mask? (I saw somewhere you can > supply them) I was selling laser-cut stainless frameless solderpaste stencils of up to A4 in size for USD25. I have stopped doing that for the moment though, as I really really have to concentrate on getting web ordering of PCBs going. (And 90% of that is the back-end processing, not the customer-facing stuff). If you'd like to make your own solderpaste stencils, it's not hard: http://lowpowerlab.com/blog/2013/02/11/diy-smd-metal-stencils-the-definitive-tutorial/ I think everyone should try that. (Felix is another customer of mine :-) ) > Do you miss the Fosters? LOL, Fosters is megaswill, I never drink it. I brew my own beer :-) That's what this group is for eh, making your own? Mitch.
2013-05-14 by Mitch Davis
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote: > > I check boards thoroughly and give a report on each one. I should clarify that I check the design. Here's a recent report for a customer: - No board outline file. Please see attached. The purple lines should be a rectangle enclosing the whole board. You can have right angle or arc corners. In particular, please pay close attention to the shape of the board in the area of the four RJ45 connectors (or whatever they are). - Be aware of PCB manufacture limitations if your final board outline has sharp angled concave corners near the RJ45s. It's not possible to faithfully reproduce sharp angled concave corners. The mill bit is 0.8mm, and therefore the smallest radius of curvature of the arc you'll get on concave corners is 0.4mm. Please let me know that this is ok. - The fab will "pull back" copper very slightly so there's no copper right at the very edge of the board. There will be a very thin copperless margin right around the board. If you don't want the fab to do pullback (for example, if your design had SMA connectors) then please tell me and I'll tell the fab. - Many packages use .dri for drill files, but Eagle wants to put drill holes into .txt files. That's ok, but the files to include in your .zip are the .txt files. (Also, with our .cam file, we can't find a way to stop Eagle from generating useless .gpi files, sigh). - On the top you have silkscreen across the pads. What will happen is that the soldermask will be used to mask the silkscreen - silkcreen will be omitted where it crosses pads. This is not a fatal problem, but if you're expecting to get back boards where the silk looks just as you designed it, this can be a bit of a shock. The easiest solution to this is to redefine your footprints so no silk crosses the pads, but you'll still need to carefully review every part of your board if you want a total remedy. - The "XYZ" text is covering up "ABC". - No silkscreen on the bottom layer (that's ok, but please tell me it's intentional). My chat channel is also a very good place to get a review. Mitch. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-14 by Paul
On 14/05/2013 07:26, Mitch Davis wrote: > > > > > Do you miss the Fosters? > > LOL, Fosters is megaswill, I never drink it. I brew my own beer :-) > That's what this group is for eh, making your own? > > Mitch. > > _ But they keep telling us on the TV ads that it is amber nectar! You imply they are telling porkie pies? :-) Real ale myself... proper Brit stuff. I do brew although none on the go at the moment. Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2013-05-14 by Mitch Davis
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Paul <paul@...> wrote: > > But they keep telling us on the TV ads that it is amber nectar! That it was an ad should be enough of a giveaway, that it was also on the TV means it's incredible. Desperate attempt to stay on topic: How long does presensitised board last when the bag is sealed? How about once it's been opened but then sealed up? (Not talking about what the manufacturer recommends, which is probably going to be "after using your 2x2cm square, throw the rest of the board away" but what folks have found for themselves...) Cheers, Mitch.
2013-05-14 by lists
In article <CA+KzSgJHRQsZ3gojr0ij=1UkLBWx-MdtbHRscDmzLUKbLxarHQ@...>, Mitch Davis <mjd@...> wrote: > > Do you miss the Fosters? > LOL, Fosters is megaswill, I never drink it. I brew my own beer :-) Thank God for that. -- Stuart Winsor Midlands RISC OS and Raspberry pi show, 13th July 2013 http://www.mug.riscos.org/show13/MUGshow.html
2013-05-14 by lists
In article <51914A6B.9000102@...>, Paul <paul@...> wrote: > Maplin board! Maplin - Arrgh Bought some board from them once, they had to order it because they had none in stock at the local shop. That was usual. I would go in with a list and if I was lucky they might have two of the items I wanted - must have cost them a fortune in postage because they would send direct from head office post free. When it turned up it seemed to be covered in scratches, which I judged would have gone right through the protective film and the photo-resist. I complained and they sent me a replacement piece that looked worse than the first - looked like somebody had been kicking and scuffing it around on the floor. I was in a hurry and desperate so I had to use it - broken tracks everywhere where the scratches had removed the resist. One would have thought that because I had complained they would have checked the replacement over before sending it out. -- Stuart Winsor Midlands RISC OS and Raspberry pi show, 13th July 2013 http://www.mug.riscos.org/show13/MUGshow.html