Homebrew PCBs

As I've said numerous times before, discussion of this is OFF TOPIC. I'm finding having this discussion over and over again to be the most annoying thing in email. Snerf.

And as I've said numerous times before, top, bottom, inline posting, as long as you leave it understandable and trim the excess, I don't care.

David Griffith, please remove your inflammatory signature. Until you do, you are on moderation and I'll remove the signature myself, but you'll have to wait 'til I get online to check.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD
moderator

On Tue, 4 Jun 2013, AlienRelics wrote:

> As I've said numerous times before, discussion of this is OFF TOPIC. I'm 
> finding having this discussion over and over again to be the most 
> annoying thing in email. Snerf.
>
> And as I've said numerous times before, top, bottom, inline posting, as 
> long as you leave it understandable and trim the excess, I don't care.
>
> David Griffith, please remove your inflammatory signature. Until you do, 
> you are on moderation and I'll remove the signature myself, but you'll 
> have to wait 'til I get online to check.

Sorry.  I didn't think my .sig would become the centerpoint of something.

-- 
David Griffith
dgriffi@...

steve yet again your seriously overreaching attitude and meglomania in
order to derive control has ended up losing you yet again another subject .
In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value . i have seen
you harangue people and speak to them with utter contempt. It appears to me
that you deride satisfaction in having ultimate authority and denying
freedom. this is akin to a tyrannical dictatorship which can be outlined in
MY SIGNATURE LINE

-- 
We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep
and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new
government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of
arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being
understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations
of a tyrannical government." - U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, March
9, 2007



jeremy youngs


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sent before finished



shorten it up i will although i value highly your knowledge and the
knowledge of others i will not be your subject i am a citizen and will
therefore leave this group good buy

-- 
We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep
and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new
government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of
arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being
understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations
of a tyrannical government." - U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, March
9, 2007



jeremy youngs


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jeremy youngs <jcyoungs76@...> writes:
> In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value.

In America, we respect the rules of private forums such as Usenet
(Usenet is not run by the government, therefore not "public" by USA
definitions).  As this is a private forum, the members of which who have
chosen moderators to enforce the group rules of conduct, any action of
the moderator is considered to be "the will of the people" here.

I fully support our moderator in any action he takes to keep the content
of this forum in line with the rules of this forum.

Clue.

Neither moderated usenet newsgroups nor moderated yahoo groups allow the users to select the moderators.

In both cases, moderators are chosen at the start-up of the group, usually chosen by the person most responsible for start-up.  In most cases, when the moderators seek new moderators they ask for volunteers and then select the most suitably-tempered volunteer(s) they get.

It's not very democratic.  It's more republican.  At least for these social milieus, it generally works pretty well -- and anybody who doesn't like it is welcome to go start their own group, at least on yahoo, facebook, etc.

Nowadays, usenet is pretty well deprecated.  I moderate a usenet group and wouldn't mind if it went away, since we haven't had an on-topic post in several years.  However, we WILL have at least a few on-topic messages soon, since there's a related group that I actively seek to have removed, as it's far outlived its usefulness, and the RFD /CFV for that group will be announced on the group I moderate.

I would vote FOR a CFV to completely pull the plug on usenet, as long as all the posts were suitably archived.  Everything.  Even including such divisive stuff as the Jammu-Kashmir debate and all the netkook fodder.  I still get tickled when I think about alt.karlmaldens.nose

73
Jim N6OTQ



>________________________________
> From: DJ Delorie <dj@...>
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:35 AM
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Discussion of top, bottom, middle posting is OFF TOPIC
> 
>
>
>jeremy youngs <jcyoungs76@...> writes:
>> In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value.
>
>In America, we respect the rules of private forums such as Usenet
>(Usenet is not run by the government, therefore not "public" by USA
>definitions).  As this is a private forum, the members of which who have
>chosen moderators to enforce the group rules of conduct, any action of
>the moderator is considered to be "the will of the people" here.
>
>I fully support our moderator in any action he takes to keep the content
>of this forum in line with the rules of this forum.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's not even republican, it's a plain old dictatorship.
The group owner (and his cronies) decides what's on and what isn't,
and frankly I'm just fine with that.

You know beforehand who the owner is, and you are free to leave at any
time (can't do that with some real life dictators, haha).

Anyway, long live the king!
Steve doesn't get any thanks for the time he puts in running this list
and the others, it's really way out of line to give him grief over
doing his job.

Did any of you even notice how he put Dave on moderation in order to
remove the offending signature for him?
That's what I call service.

ST

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Jim <n6otq@...> wrote:
> Clue.
>
> Neither moderated usenet newsgroups nor moderated yahoo groups allow the users to select the moderators.
>
> In both cases, moderators are chosen at the start-up of the group, usually chosen by the person most responsible for start-up.  In most cases, when the moderators seek new moderators they ask for volunteers and then select the most suitably-tempered volunteer(s) they get.
>
> It's not very democratic.  It's more republican.  At least for these social milieus, it generally works pretty well -- and anybody who doesn't like it is welcome to go start their own group, at least on yahoo, facebook, etc.
>
> Nowadays, usenet is pretty well deprecated.  I moderate a usenet group and wouldn't mind if it went away, since we haven't had an on-topic post in several years.  However, we WILL have at least a few on-topic messages soon, since there's a related group that I actively seek to have removed, as it's far outlived its usefulness, and the RFD /CFV for that group will be announced on the group I moderate.
>
> I would vote FOR a CFV to completely pull the plug on usenet, as long as all the posts were suitably archived.  Everything.  Even including such divisive stuff as the Jammu-Kashmir debate and all the netkook fodder.  I still get tickled when I think about alt.karlmaldens.nose
>
> 73
> Jim N6OTQ
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: DJ Delorie <dj@...>
>>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 11:35 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Discussion of top, bottom, middle posting is OFF TOPIC
>>
>>
>>
>>jeremy youngs <jcyoungs76@...> writes:
>>> In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value.
>>
>>In America, we respect the rules of private forums such as Usenet
>>(Usenet is not run by the government, therefore not "public" by USA
>>definitions).  As this is a private forum, the members of which who have
>>chosen moderators to enforce the group rules of conduct, any action of
>>the moderator is considered to be "the will of the people" here.
>>
>>I fully support our moderator in any action he takes to keep the content
>>of this forum in line with the rules of this forum.
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Wow. Completely missed the point. And threatened to shoot me.



Steve Greenfield AE7HD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, jeremy youngs <jcyoungs76@...> wrote:

>
> steve yet again your seriously overreaching attitude and meglomania in
> order to derive control has ended up losing you yet again another subject .
> In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value . i have seen
> you harangue people and speak to them with utter contempt. It appears to me
> that you deride satisfaction in having ultimate authority and denying
> freedom. this is akin to a tyrannical dictatorship which can be outlined in
> MY SIGNATURE LINE
> 
> -- 
> We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep
> and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new
> government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of
> arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being
> understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations
> of a tyrannical government." - U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, March
> 9, 2007
> 
> 
> 
> jeremy youngs
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Lol, since when is a Yahoo group a democracy?

Benevolent dictatorship is a better description.

If you wonder why a fair chunk of the world thinks a fair chunk of the US is
nuts, well, there's exhibit A.

Tony


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jeremy youngs
> Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:50 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Discussion of top, bottom, middle posting is
> OFF TOPIC
> 
> steve yet again your seriously overreaching attitude and meglomania in
> order to derive control has ended up losing you yet again another subject
.
> In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value . i have
> seen you harangue people and speak to them with utter contempt. It
> appears to me that you deride satisfaction in having ultimate authority
and
> denying freedom. this is akin to a tyrannical dictatorship which can be
> outlined in MY SIGNATURE LINE
> 
> --
> We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to
> keep and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new
> government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of
> arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being
> understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations
of
> a tyrannical government." - U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, March 9,
> 2007
> 
> 
> 
> jeremy youngs
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Ya gotta admit it's pretty funny though.

It's occurred to me that there might be a link between behaviour and email
signatures.  Most people have given up on them these days anyways, as indeed
had Jeremy.

If you look at companies, the bigger they are, the bigger the blah blah
legalese they attach to the email, and insecure small companies compensate
by beefing theirs up.  

So do individuals behave the same?  For example many of the machining groups
have gunsmiths in them, and I can't recall one who has a signature block,
let alone a "defending mah rights" one.  The ones that do, though...

I reckon there might be grant money in researching that.  And I thought of
it first, so hands off you mongrels.  Go find your own gravy train.

As for the shelving vinyl like you find in the supermarket, it's usually a
bit on the thin side.  Sign vinyl is thicker.  Putting it on some heavy
paper first might help.

The problems people have with Brother lasers is the toners isn't re-fusable,
so once on the paper or vinyl etc it won't re-melt and transfer to the PCB.
I've only used HP stuff so I've no direct experience.  Toner transfer with
sign vinyl does work.

Tony



> Wow. Completely missed the point. And threatened to shoot me.
> 
> Steve Greenfield AE7HD
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, jeremy youngs
> <jcyoungs76@...> wrote:
> >
> > steve yet again your seriously overreaching attitude and meglomania in
> > order to derive control has ended up losing you yet again another
subject .

> > In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value . i have
> > seen you harangue people and speak to them with utter contempt. It
> > appears to me that you deride satisfaction in having ultimate
> > authority and denying freedom. this is akin to a tyrannical
> > dictatorship which can be outlined in MY SIGNATURE LINE
> >
> > --
> > We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to
> > keep and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the
> > new government under the Constitution and was premised on the private
> > use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the
> > latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or
> > the depredations of a tyrannical government." - U.S. Court of Appeals,
> > D.C. Circuit, March 9, 2007
> >
> >
> >
> > jeremy youngs

Thank you DJ! Best response to this sort of post I've ever seen.

And thanks to our benevolent dictator Steven for taking the time to setup, run, and police this list with a velvet iron fist.

I have personally made the mistake of trying to run a list as a democracy and I can tell you from experience this way is better.

In either case, I'd be willing to bet the young Mr Youngs would stand up and screem about private ownership of property just as much as he goes on about guns and democracy, yet the title of list /owner/ seems to have been lost on him.

--
James Newton

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> 
> jeremy youngs <jcyoungs76@...> writes:
> > In america we have freedoms which apparently you do not value.
> 
> In America, we respect the rules of private forums such as Usenet
> (Usenet is not run by the government, therefore not "public" by USA
> definitions).  As this is a private forum, the members of which who have
> chosen moderators to enforce the group rules of conduct, any action of
> the moderator is considered to be "the will of the people" here.
> 
> I fully support our moderator in any action he takes to keep the content
> of this forum in line with the rules of this forum.
>

"... with Brother lasers is the toners isn't re-fusable ..."

Actually I think the problem is as someone else has suggested, i.e. that the 
required fuser temp is much higher. I have a Brother MFC-8500, probably 
about 10 years old now, still works fine but not very well for TT. Prints 
look fine on paper, even for large dark areas, but it's hard to get the 
toner to stick to a copper clad board and the toner isn't dense enough to 
completely block out the etch acid. Same problem making transparencies for 
photo resist masks.
--
Phil M.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Discussion of top, bottom, middle posting 
is OFF TOPIC

> Ya gotta admit it's pretty funny though.
>
> It's occurred to me that there might be a link between behaviour and email
> signatures.  Most people have given up on them these days anyways, as 
> indeed
> had Jeremy.
>
> If you look at companies, the bigger they are, the bigger the blah blah
> legalese they attach to the email, and insecure small companies compensate
> by beefing theirs up.
>
> So do individuals behave the same?  For example many of the machining 
> groups
> have gunsmiths in them, and I can't recall one who has a signature block,
> let alone a "defending mah rights" one.  The ones that do, though...
>
> I reckon there might be grant money in researching that.  And I thought of
> it first, so hands off you mongrels.  Go find your own gravy train.
>
> As for the shelving vinyl like you find in the supermarket, it's usually a
> bit on the thin side.  Sign vinyl is thicker.  Putting it on some heavy
> paper first might help.
>
> The problems people have with Brother lasers is the toners isn't 
> re-fusable,
> so once on the paper or vinyl etc it won't re-melt and transfer to the 
> PCB.
> I've only used HP stuff so I've no direct experience.  Toner transfer with
> sign vinyl does work.
>
> Tony
>
>

Hm. An off topic thread being hijacked to an on topic subject. 

The mind boggles. ;')

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil@..." <yahoo@...> wrote:

>
> "... with Brother lasers is the toners isn't re-fusable ..."
> 
> Actually I think the problem is as someone else has suggested, i.e. that the 
> required fuser temp is much higher. I have a Brother MFC-8500, probably 
> about 10 years old now, still works fine but not very well for TT. Prints 
> look fine on paper, even for large dark areas, but it's hard to get the 
> toner to stick to a copper clad board and the toner isn't dense enough to 
> completely block out the etch acid. Same problem making transparencies for 
> photo resist masks.
> --
> Phil M.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:33 AM
> Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Discussion of top, bottom, middle posting 
> is OFF TOPIC
> 
> 
> > Ya gotta admit it's pretty funny though.
> >
> > It's occurred to me that there might be a link between behaviour and email
> > signatures.  Most people have given up on them these days anyways, as 
> > indeed
> > had Jeremy.
> >
> > If you look at companies, the bigger they are, the bigger the blah blah
> > legalese they attach to the email, and insecure small companies compensate
> > by beefing theirs up.
> >
> > So do individuals behave the same?  For example many of the machining 
> > groups
> > have gunsmiths in them, and I can't recall one who has a signature block,
> > let alone a "defending mah rights" one.  The ones that do, though...
> >
> > I reckon there might be grant money in researching that.  And I thought of
> > it first, so hands off you mongrels.  Go find your own gravy train.
> >
> > As for the shelving vinyl like you find in the supermarket, it's usually a
> > bit on the thin side.  Sign vinyl is thicker.  Putting it on some heavy
> > paper first might help.
> >
> > The problems people have with Brother lasers is the toners isn't 
> > re-fusable,
> > so once on the paper or vinyl etc it won't re-melt and transfer to the 
> > PCB.
> > I've only used HP stuff so I've no direct experience.  Toner transfer with
> > sign vinyl does work.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
>

I've heard both complaints, you'd think the higher temperature wouldn't be
that hard to overcome.  Pull the fuser from an old Brother laser and use
that for the transfer.

Obviously something different in the chemistry there...  Might be like power
coat, the powder fuses at 200C (~400F) but once cured can easily survive
twice that temperature.

I guess it'll remain a mystery.

Tony



> "... with Brother lasers is the toners isn't re-fusable ..."
> 
> Actually I think the problem is as someone else has suggested, i.e. that
the
> required fuser temp is much higher. I have a Brother MFC-8500, probably
> about 10 years old now, still works fine but not very well for TT. Prints
look
> fine on paper, even for large dark areas, but it's hard to get the toner
to stick
> to a copper clad board and the toner isn't dense enough to completely
block

> out the etch acid. Same problem making transparencies for photo resist
> masks.
> --
> Phil M.

They didn't change the subject either.  How rude!

Tony

> Hm. An off topic thread being hijacked to an on topic subject.
> 
> The mind boggles. ;')
> 
> Steve Greenfield AE7HD
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil@..." <yahoo@...> wrote:
> >
> > "... with Brother lasers is the toners isn't re-fusable ..."
> >
> > Actually I think the problem is as someone else has suggested, i.e.
> > that the required fuser temp is much higher. I have a Brother

Actually, that is another point - changing the subject line does not help. It will still show on Yahoogroup as part of the same thread.

Steve Greenfield AE7HD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:

>
> They didn't change the subject either.  How rude!
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> > Hm. An off topic thread being hijacked to an on topic subject.
> > 
> > The mind boggles. ;')
> > 
> > Steve Greenfield AE7HD
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil@" <yahoo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > "... with Brother lasers is the toners isn't re-fusable ..."
> > >
> > > Actually I think the problem is as someone else has suggested, i.e.
> > > that the required fuser temp is much higher. I have a Brother
>