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My results with a laminator

My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by gmanca101

Well, having first used an HP 7445A Plotter and then switching to the 
TT method, I noticed the ease in making a pcb with the TT method 
especially with double sided boards. So I purchased a broken GBC 95P 
laminator off of EBay for $20 dollars. I casted new gears and 
installed a new thermal cut-off device and I had a functioning 
laminator. 

From my previous use of a clothing iron, i was using JetPrint Graphic 
paper that was great because 98% of the traces were intact. However, 
using this paper in my laminator was a bad idea because the heat from 
the laminator was not enough to penetrate the paper. So in desperation
(and a stroke of ingenuity), I used a regular ol' sheet of paper and 
the image was perfectly transfered. I think the reason why magazine 
paper like "Time" gives good results is that it is glossy yet thin. 

On a side note, I wonder what the fesiabilty is in constructing a 
roll tinning machine similar to what Dave Hopkins described in a 
previous post. Specifically, would it be worth it compared to 
purchasing tinnit?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by Stefan Trethan

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:45:30 -0000, gmanca101 <gmanca101@...> wrote:

> Well, having first used an HP 7445A Plotter and then switching to the
> TT method, I noticed the ease in making a pcb with the TT method
> especially with double sided boards. So I purchased a broken GBC 95P
> laminator off of EBay for $20 dollars. I casted new gears and
> installed a new thermal cut-off device and I had a functioning
> laminator.
>
> From my previous use of a clothing iron, i was using JetPrint Graphic
> paper that was great because 98% of the traces were intact. However,
> using this paper in my laminator was a bad idea because the heat from
> the laminator was not enough to penetrate the paper. So in desperation
> (and a stroke of ingenuity), I used a regular ol' sheet of paper and
> the image was perfectly transfered. I think the reason why magazine
> paper like "Time" gives good results is that it is glossy yet thin.
>
> On a side note, I wonder what the fesiabilty is in constructing a
> roll tinning machine similar to what Dave Hopkins described in a
> previous post. Specifically, would it be worth it compared to
> purchasing tinnit?
>

I think you are very right with that.
the fuser only contacts a stripe at a time, the iron holds a big area hot.
you need to pass it much more often, and maybe even slower (to allow 
heatup of the area).
then i think also the thick paper would work.
i have relatively thick paper myself, next time i will buy the lightest 
with that coating.


I thought about the tinning machine too.
the size described it way too big for me.
i wondered if i couldn't make something hand-held, like a paint roller.
maybe a pieco of pipe, on bearings, heated by nicrome wire in it (with 
cement filled).
or maybe even only heated by the hor air gun.

I made the following experiment:
piece of copper sheet, bent the one half round (radius about 5cm) the 
other half was
cut in from the sides 1/3 of the width and then bent round,
(so you get 2 "pipes" 90 degree to each other).
then i have put the one pipe on the hot air gun, which heated the front 
pipe (the bend was not completed
so the air can get into it.
Then i put solder on the front pipe.

i painted the pcb with colophony, and dragged the hot assembly over it.

Result:

Not very good.
Just dragging is not good i think, the rolling motion is really needed.

I think if one maybe takes a pipe and puts a strong handle on it (really 
just like a paint roller)
and then you place the pcb on a flat, or even maybe slightly soft surface 
then you can apply
much more pressure and it would work.

I also thought about keeping the roll tinned.
maybe a "brush" of litz wire on the top would do the trick.
if you always maintain a certain amount of solder in this brush it would 
keep the roll tinned, or not?


Any thoughts welcome (but the construction of this machine is somewhere in 
very far away future..)


ST

Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by gmanca101

I found this pcb workshop site, 
http://www.cia.com.au/rcsradio/makepcb9.txt, from Australia. All 
though they describe im somewhat detail their roll tinning machine it 
appears that the bottom roller is rubber? Is that possible? I know a 
major deterant for me is the fact that the metal roller needed flux. 
If the top rubber roller was not affected by solder, then why isnt it 
possible to have the bottom one as well?


> Any thoughts welcome (but the construction of this machine is 
somewhere in 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> very far away future..)
> 
> 
> ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by Stefan Trethan

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:28:08 -0000, gmanca101 <gmanca101@...> wrote:

> I found this pcb workshop site,
> http://www.cia.com.au/rcsradio/makepcb9.txt, from Australia. All
> though they describe im somewhat detail their roll tinning machine it
> appears that the bottom roller is rubber? Is that possible? I know a
> major deterant for me is the fact that the metal roller needed flux.
> If the top rubber roller was not affected by solder, then why isnt it
> possible to have the bottom one as well?
>
because of no roller is affected by solder no pcb will be affected too.
and then it will just come out hot.

(one roller carries the solder to the pcb)

ST

Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by joshdewinter

> I casted new gears and installed a new thermal cut-off device and 
> I had a functioning laminator. 

  Do you know by any chance what the cuttoff temperature is of your 
laminator now?  I've got a cheap laminator, but it just doesn't work 
that well.  I think it's because it just plain doesn't get hot 
enough.  When I modified it to get hotter though, the heating 
element fried.  I'm using a fuser now and getting pretty good 
results.  The laminator would be nice though, as I wouldn't have to 
manually feed it like the fuser.

  You mentioned casting new gears too.  What process did you use for 
this?  That sounds pretty impressive.

Thanks
Josh

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by Stefan Trethan

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:40:53 -0000, joshdewinter <joshdewinter@...> 
wrote:

>> I casted new gears and installed a new thermal cut-off device and
>> I had a functioning laminator.
>
>   Do you know by any chance what the cuttoff temperature is of your
> laminator now?  I've got a cheap laminator, but it just doesn't work
> that well.  I think it's because it just plain doesn't get hot
> enough.  When I modified it to get hotter though, the heating
> element fried.  I'm using a fuser now and getting pretty good
> results.  The laminator would be nice though, as I wouldn't have to
> manually feed it like the fuser.
>
>   You mentioned casting new gears too.  What process did you use for
> this?  That sounds pretty impressive.
>
> Thanks
> Josh


you can motorize the fuser you know, just like it was in the printer.

I too am very interested in the casting, i would appreciate webpages
and conversation. this is maybe not the place, there are already some 
other groups.
I have read a little already in the past, but i do not know where to get 
the materials
(in the eu).

Josh, if you have a look at the existing groups and check them out, please
tell me which you think is suitable and join. i am interestid in "plastic 
casting" mainly.
but i am too fascinated by aluminium casting, but this is more effort so 
the plastic thing
would be fine for now (and i think better detail parts are easier 
obtainable).
I will check them myself in a few days time maybe but if you do it before 
i can save the time.

regards

Stefan

Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by gmanca101

Hello, 
My laminator is a GBC 95p with a thermal cut-off of 152 degrees 
celcius. So thats like 305 degrees F. I wonder if you could bypass 
the fuse and perhaps lower the resistance in the power resistors? 

I made new gears by making a silicon rubber mold of the best original 
gear. Then i just poured some liquid plastic, found from tap plastic, 
into the mold and out came a gear. 

As for your fuser, perhaps you could but a motor on one of the 
rollers? You could make a gear/connector piece to make this possible.

Casting replacement parts, was Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-24 by Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

> you can motorize the fuser you know, just like it was in the printer.
> 
> I too am very interested in the casting, i would appreciate webpages
> and conversation. this is maybe not the place, there are already some 
> other groups.
> I have read a little already in the past, but i do not know where to
get 
> the materials
> (in the eu).
> 
> Josh, if you have a look at the existing groups and check them out,
please
> tell me which you think is suitable and join. i am interestid in
"plastic 
> casting" mainly.
> but i am too fascinated by aluminium casting, but this is more
effort so 
> the plastic thing
> would be fine for now (and i think better detail parts are easier 
> obtainable).
> I will check them myself in a few days time maybe but if you do it
before 
> i can save the time.

I belong to the Yahoogroup Casting:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/casting/

And I'm list-owner of NW Propmasters:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nwpropmasters/

Being able to cast replacement or new parts can be a great time and
money saver.

Steve

Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-25 by joshdewinter

> I made new gears by making a silicon rubber mold of the best 
original 
> gear. Then i just poured some liquid plastic, found from tap 
plastic, 
> into the mold and out came a gear. 


  Thanks for the info on the laminator and the plastic.  I'm very 
very curious about this plastic making method, and I'm going to 
check out the casting newsgroup.  Stephan are you over there already 
too?
  I know it's a little off topic, but can you tell me what these 
products are exactly that you're using?  Like the brand names of the 
silicon and the tap plastic and where I might find them.  Are they 
art supplies, or more hardware/custom job shop type stuff?
 
  Thanks very much for the info.

-Josh

Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-25 by gmanca101

Basically, the silicon mold is by Alumlite/Dow Corning. You see, 
Alumlite purchases the Dow Corning MS III RTV Rubber compound and 
then repackages it into consumer-friendly quanities. Here is there 
website: http://www.alumilite.com/. 

As for the liquid plastic itself, I am using a liquid resin compound 
from TAP Plastic called, "Fast Casting Liquid Resin". Their site is 
here: 

You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can 
purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and the 
RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note that 
Alumilite sells a liquid plastic compound but the cost is much more 
then TAP Plastic's.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "joshdewinter" 
<joshdewinter@y...> wrote:
> 
> > I made new gears by making a silicon rubber mold of the best 
> original 
> > gear. Then i just poured some liquid plastic, found from tap 
> plastic, 
> > into the mold and out came a gear. 
> 
> 
>   Thanks for the info on the laminator and the plastic.  I'm very 
> very curious about this plastic making method, and I'm going to 
> check out the casting newsgroup.  Stephan are you over there 
already 
> too?
>   I know it's a little off topic, but can you tell me what these 
> products are exactly that you're using?  Like the brand names of 
the 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> silicon and the tap plastic and where I might find them.  Are they 
> art supplies, or more hardware/custom job shop type stuff?
>  
>   Thanks very much for the info.
> 
> -Josh

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-25 by Stefan Trethan

>
>   Thanks for the info on the laminator and the plastic.  I'm very
> very curious about this plastic making method, and I'm going to
> check out the casting newsgroup.  Stephan are you over there already
> too?
>   I know it's a little off topic, but can you tell me what these
> products are exactly that you're using?  Like the brand names of the
> silicon and the tap plastic and where I might find them.  Are they
> art supplies, or more hardware/custom job shop type stuff?
>
>   Thanks very much for the info.
>
> -Josh
>
>
>

I'm over there and listening already...

I'll post a addition to your question asking if anyone knows where to get 
the stuff
in Europe....

ST

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-25 by Anthony Toft

> You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can 
> purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and the 
> RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note that 

RTV is available from your local friendly autoparts store in a variety of
formulations (my store has it made by Locktite). It might be called 'liquid
gasket' or 'sealant'.

Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-25 by Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Toft" <toftat@c...> wrote:
> > You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can 
> > purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and the 
> > RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note that 
> 
> RTV is available from your local friendly autoparts store in a
variety of
> formulations (my store has it made by Locktite). It might be called
'liquid
> gasket' or 'sealant'.

Are you speaking from experience? Casting RTV silicone is not the same
as sealant RTV silicone. I've had a couple of people tell me that
they've used a tube of air-cure silicone caulk to make molds, but I've
never seen one and every time I try it takes way too long to harden
(the reaction proceeds from the surface in contact with air) and welds
itself to the object unless you use so much mold release that you can
see the texture of it.

Check the links in NW_Propmasters list.

Josh, you've got a Tap Plastics not too far from you.

http://www.tapplastics.com

Steve

Re: My results with a laminator

2004-02-26 by joshdewinter

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "gmanca101" <gmanca101@y...> 
wrote:
> Basically, the silicon mold is by Alumlite/Dow Corning. You see, 
> Alumlite purchases the Dow Corning MS III RTV Rubber compound and 
> then repackages it into consumer-friendly quanities. Here is there 
> website: http://www.alumilite.com/. 
> 
> As for the liquid plastic itself, I am using a liquid resin 
compound 
> from TAP Plastic called, "Fast Casting Liquid Resin". Their site is 
> here: 
> 
> You can purchase the items from the appropriate websites or you can 
> purchase the liquid plastic from your local TAP Plastic store and 
the 
> RTV Compound may(may) be purchased from a hobby shop. Also note 
that 
> Alumilite sells a liquid plastic compound but the cost is much more 
> then TAP Plastic's.
> 


Thanks a lot for the info

-Josh

Re: My results with a laminator

2007-05-12 by juanabba

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "joshdewinter"
<joshdewinter@...> wrote:
>

Hi Josh

looking at the PHOTOS uploaded at this forum, I found one 
from you that called my attention, but when I try to link to
a note, there is no connection at all, as if they were no note.

the photo shows a home Iron + a temperature meter + a laminator box,
and had following text 
----------------------------------------------------
Josh's cheap laminator
Doing it cheap
By: joshdewinter

Posted: Jun 20, 2005
Resolution: 400 x 300
Size: 24 KB
----------------------------------------------------
do you still have the notes, please?????

thanks in advance
juan

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