Homebrew PCBs

What is the general consensus; is a Laserjet, or Injket better for
photoetching?  If laser printing is clearer, it also has the danger of
melting the overlay (if plastic is used), yes?

Charles

I can comment on my own experience using Epson Inkjet printers 
(Stylus Photo 1200 and Stylus 1160) vs. a Sharp Al1041 laser system.

I measured items printed on the laser vs. the inkjets. What I found 
was that the laser printed transparencies didn't feed uniformly (or 
changed dimensionally because of heat) and therefore the ultimate 
printout did not measure precisely as it should. I'm talking >1/10" 
over an 11" printout. The inkjets were right on. Surprisingly 
accurate.  On paper, both are very accurate.

For blackness, the laser also fell short. The inkjet yielded very 
uniform black areas. The Laser was far from black when printing 
ground planes. i'm not sure how this would affect the ultimate photo-
transfer, but I have to think it wouldn't be good.

After making these observations, I only use inkjets for my photo-
transfers and have had very good success with my boards.
-Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., dg140@f... wrote:
> What is the general consensus; is a Laserjet, or Injket better for
> photoetching?  If laser printing is clearer, it also has the danger 
of

> melting the overlay (if plastic is used), yes?
> 
> Charles

Don't know, but, Epson is releasing a new printer with a straight through
path, 1440 dpi and can accept media up to 1.5 mm thick. Perhaps there is a
way to apply etch resist directly to the board.

----- Original Message -----

From: <dg140@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Laser verses Inkjet


> What is the general consensus; is a Laserjet, or Injket better for
> photoetching?  If laser printing is clearer, it also has the danger of
> melting the overlay (if plastic is used), yes?
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I've found the inkjet ink, inkjet transparency  and inkjet printer 
settings can play a *big* role in how well the image gets printed. The 
Epson transparencies with Epson black ink work better than other inkjet 
printer ink / transparency combinations I've tried. So I'm assuming the 
inkjet your comparing against uses only Epson stuff. I use Epson Stylus 
660 but I think the black ink hasn't changed. Epson use a dye based ink 
and has excellent UV opacity. HP and Lexmark use pigment based blacks, 
which also is very UV opaque. The ink shows up as deep red when very 
brightly backlit. The Epson transparencies are the only type I've found 
(comparing to 7 other brands) that have some special stabilized water 
absorbing layer which retains the Epson dye. Even putting the 
transparencies in water for 1 minute does not redissolve the dye. This 
absorbing property of the film bridges gaps between individual ink 
droplets and creates pinhole free artwork. The HP and Lexmark printers 
tests I have done all showed pinholes. The very small pinholes are 
normaly not a problem, but when a larger pinhole or similar defect 
occures in the centre of a narrow track (<= 12 mil) it can cause problems.

Adam

tedinoue wrote:

>I can comment on my own experience using Epson Inkjet printers 
>(Stylus Photo 1200 and Stylus 1160) vs. a Sharp Al1041 laser system.
>
>I measured items printed on the laser vs. the inkjets. What I found 
>was that the laser printed transparencies didn't feed uniformly (or 
>changed dimensionally because of heat) and therefore the ultimate 
>printout did not measure precisely as it should. I'm talking >1/10" 
>over an 11" printout. The inkjets were right on. Surprisingly 
>accurate.  On paper, both are very accurate.
>
>For blackness, the laser also fell short. The inkjet yielded very 
>uniform black areas. The Laser was far from black when printing 
>ground planes. i'm not sure how this would affect the ultimate photo-
>transfer, but I have to think it wouldn't be good.
>
>After making these observations, I only use inkjets for my photo-
>transfers and have had very good success with my boards.
>-Ted
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., dg140@f... wrote:
>
>>What is the general consensus; is a Laserjet, or Injket better for
>>photoetching?  If laser printing is clearer, it also has the danger 
>>
>of
>
>>melting the overlay (if plastic is used), yes?
>>
>>Charles
>>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>

Hi Scott.  What is meant by straight through path?

thanks,
Charles

--

>Don't know, but, Epson is releasing a new printer with a straight through
>path, 1440 dpi and can accept media up to 1.5 mm thick. Perhaps there is a
>way to apply etch resist directly to the board.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <dg140@...>
>To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:08 PM
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Laser verses Inkjet
>
>
>> What is the general consensus; is a Laserjet, or Injket better for
>> photoetching?  If laser printing is clearer, it also has the danger of
>> melting the overlay (if plastic is used), yes?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>
>
>

At 09:39 PM 5/29/2002 -0400, dg140@... wrote:
>Hi Scott.  What is meant by straight through path?

As in the paper does not bend on the way through.

This means that the media (paper, CD etc) feed through the printer without
bending. This allows for rigid objects such as CDs and maybe PCB blanks to
pass through the printer.

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: <dg140@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Laser verses Inkjet


> Hi Scott.  What is meant by straight through path?
>
> thanks,
> Charles
>
> --
>
>
> >Don't know, but, Epson is releasing a new printer with a straight through
> >path, 1440 dpi and can accept media up to 1.5 mm thick. Perhaps there is
a
> >way to apply etch resist directly to the board.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <dg140@...>
> >To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:08 PM
> >Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Laser verses Inkjet
> >
> >
> >> What is the general consensus; is a Laserjet, or Injket better for
> >> photoetching?  If laser printing is clearer, it also has the danger of
> >> melting the overlay (if plastic is used), yes?
> >>
> >> Charles
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

If the Alps had done the obvious step of making their wax thermal
printers a straight through able to feed thick items, they'd be
perfect for printing etch resist right onto the boards.

Steve Greenfield

--- Scott Hendershot <scott@...> wrote:
> This means that the media (paper, CD etc) feed through the
> printer without
> bending. This allows for rigid objects such as CDs and maybe PCB
> blanks to
> pass through the printer.
> 
> Scott
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dg140@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 9:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Laser verses Inkjet
> 
> 
> > Hi Scott.  What is meant by straight through path?


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I've found the inkjet ink, inkjet transparency  and inkjet printer
settings can play a *big* role in how well the image gets printed. The
Epson transparencies with Epson black ink work better than other
inkjet printer ink / transparency combinations I've tried. So I'm
assuming the inkjet your comparing against uses only Epson stuff. I
use Epson Stylus 660 but I think the black ink hasn't changed. Epson
use a dye based ink and has excellent UV opacity. HP and Lexmark use
pigment based blacks, which also is very UV opaque. The ink shows up
as deep red when very brightly backlit. The Epson transparencies are
the only type I've found (comparing to 7 other brands) that have some
special stabilized water absorbing layer which retains the Epson dye.
Even putting the transparencies in water for 1 minute does not
redissolve the dye. This absorbing property of the film bridges gaps
between individual ink droplets and creates pinhole free artwork. The
HP and Lexmark printers tests I have done all showed pinholes. The
very small pinholes are normaly not a problem, but when a larger
pinhole or similar defect occures in the centre of a narrow track (<=
12 mil) it can cause problems.

Adam


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "tedinoue" <ted@s...> wrote:
> I can comment on my own experience using Epson Inkjet printers 
> (Stylus Photo 1200 and Stylus 1160) vs. a Sharp Al1041 laser system.
> 
> I measured items printed on the laser vs. the inkjets. What I found 
> was that the laser printed transparencies didn't feed uniformly (or 
> changed dimensionally because of heat) and therefore the ultimate 
> printout did not measure precisely as it should. I'm talking >1/10" 
> over an 11" printout. The inkjets were right on. Surprisingly 
> accurate.  On paper, both are very accurate.
> 
> For blackness, the laser also fell short. The inkjet yielded very 
> uniform black areas. The Laser was far from black when printing 
> ground planes. i'm not sure how this would affect the ultimate
photo-
> transfer, but I have to think it wouldn't be good.
> 
> After making these observations, I only use inkjets for my photo-
> transfers and have had very good success with my boards.
> -Ted
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., dg140@f... wrote:
> > What is the general consensus; is a Laserjet, or Injket better for
> > photoetching?  If laser printing is clearer, it also has the
danger 

> of
> > melting the overlay (if plastic is used), yes?
> > 
> > Charles