Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

> Are you really curious or you just want to pick a few points to grill
> me.

I was really curious.

> You sound very very opinionated towards people who criticize LUG
> moderators.

I'm trying to compensate for the opinionation the other way around. Before I 
can agree or disagree with any kind of moderation, doesn't it seem logical 
that I'd like to see what we're talking about here?

> Why ask about what I wrote and then write all these long paragraphs
> before asking what it was?

It was an explanation of why I asked.

> I am sick of hypocrisy.

Me too, that's my whole point.

> (As in if you do not like my post don't read it. Where is the abuse?

I didn't mean your post, I was talking about your example with the homeless 
guy.

> It is the moderators who find kind excuses to protect Apple at the
> expense of preventing
> people like me from expressing our selves freely.

And THAT is the lie that I'm trying to fight. It's been proven over and over 
again, they do NOT protect Apple because all those stories about bad bad 
Apple HAVE MADE IT TO THE LIST lots and lots of times!!!!! But every time a 
post DOES get moderated, people come and complain that they can't express 
some opinions. That's why I ask, what was the real reason according to the 
moderators? But you obviously don't want to say.

> I did not like their fire so I will stay away.

I don't care. I subscribe to the list for information and that's what I get, 
and since it takes up 90% of my email traffic I don't mind a bit of filtering 
when the purpose of providing hints, tips and help about Logic is defeated.

> > And the topic is "Apple's wrongdoing"? Maybe people subscribing to the
>
> Yes it is and it should be heard.

I have heard it over and over again.

> They could listen and make their support better and Logic better.

Search through the archives, this point has been made on the LUG lots and lots 
of times. This proves two points:

1. The idea that the moderators won't let this opinion through is a lie
2. If the moderator's argument was that this has been stated often enough, he 
is actually right.

> Turning the deaf ear won't help.

Telling the same thing over and over makes people deaf.

> You can tell me that they are not reading those forums.

Why would they have to read every single Logic forum there is? Besides, if 
they WERE reading the forum, they would have stopped taking it seriously when 
all the totally rediculous Apple conspiracy theories were posted (allowed by 
the moderators!!) following the release of Logic 7. The list looked like a 
group of ranting children.

> It should still be allowed for people to have an idea.

And who says it isn't?

> Knowing about Apple's bad support is useful to everyone and potential
> buyers.

Yes and we've heard it and heard it and heard it.

> You should check out Cubase Forum at times.
> They are a lot more welcoming for criticism.

Are you totally blind or just reading selectively? Search the gmane archives 
for "support" and see how much critisism the LUG allows.

> Why do you think that is?

Why? Because LUG moderators are evil and Cubase forum moderators are Gods?

> Yes, it did.
> I mentioned me saying 
(...)

I can't follow this at all.. why don't you just post the entire message here 
so we can all benifit from it?

> > Hre we go again.. LUG is NOT APPLE!!!!!!
>
> I can not believe you are so ignorant.

Ignorance is complaining to a user group, repeating the complaint over and 
over again, and then say the software company is not listening to you.

> I have ben following LUG since version 2.5.
> I know what is what.
> People used to say "This is not the bug-report forum." at Emagic times.
> However, it did help for a lot of bug fixes.

Because some people take things they read on the list to Apple support - 
something you can do yourself.

> Well, that is not what Apple tech said.
> He said "Emagic should take care of support for version 6."

Well then tell him Emagic doesn't exist anymore.

> > Sorry, I agree the moderators are sometimes out of line, but I'm
> > getting SO
> > SICK of this opressed-peasant-stuff and the wanking about
> > we're-so-damn-good-with-our-democratic forums.
>
> opressed-peasant-stuff?
> What are you talking about?
> Do you live in the moon?

I'm talking about turning every blocked post into an excuse of saying "ooh 
they just don't want us to critisize" when actually you can see the same 
critisisms making it to the list many times before, and then going into the 
"we can't say what we want", "there's no freedom of speech" and "I'm not 
allowed to have an opinion" kinds of speeches which are totally misguided. 
(The analogy being "we're just lowly peasants and the LUG moderators have all 
the power").

Maurits.