Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

> The PC is simply better in almost every aspect. So, unless you want to give
> me some facts. Not just assertions, don't suggest to me that Macs aren't
> more expensive that PCs. I'm providing verifiable facts. You are providing
> nothing but personal assertion.

You asserted a bunch of things regarding Mac's. I can't really speak about
that HP because I have no direct experience with that motherboard/chipset
etc. HP tends to make very stable configurations, so I imagine that that was
a good value. I do not have (an neither do you) any real world benchmark
measurements of performance between the two models. I never asserted that
the Mac was a better computer than the PC, hardware wise. What I do assert
is that I know that pretty much anything I throw at that Mac, including
digital audio applications like Logic, will simply work, with very little
technical issues. This is due to the fact that Apple closely ties the
development of their OS to their hardware. The Windows operating system, the
way it needs to deal with I/O, the layers of software one on top of another,
security, is an inferior OS to many other OS' including OSX. You can compare
hardware specifications all day long, but in the end the way the computer
performs with the OS, peripherals and the end user, should be factored in to
cost, as well as processor speed, hard drives, memory, etc...

> 
>> The Operating System. Windows presents more technical
>> challenges to the end user than is necessary, the fact that
>> Apple Computers do not is also worth something.
> 
> Please tell me specifically what these technical "challenges" are. Unless
> you can do so, I simply do not accept your conclusion because my experience
> if quite different.

You are probably a very technically literate end user. I am equally
comfortable on both operating systems as well. I prefer a Mac because the
applications I want to use, Logic and DP, are only available on a Mac. I do
feel that my dual processor 533 performs better than it's nearest PC
equivalent, although dual processor PC's were not commonly available at the
time I bought my Mac, and they were way more money. Plus my Mac is over
three years old and easily runs the latest OS, this is often not the case in
the PC world. You tend to really need a more robust, current PC to run the
most current OS and applications. I have end users who own three year old
PC's who have trouble rendering modern internet protocols.

> 
> Finally, does it really hurt that much to admit that Macs are more
> expensive? I mean, after all, if the Mac is so much better and doesn't cost
> more, then why wouldn't its market share be going up instead of down?

Well an automobile is more expensive than a bicycle, but they are two
different things aren't they? There are a lot of PC's and PC configurations,
and a lot of people building PC's, and their prices are all over the place.
Apple has a very limited, functional product line. There is no PC equivalent
to an iMac, and very few real competitors to the G5. I'd really like some
current, real world examples and benchmarks that say otherwise. It would
help me price out the digital audio workstations we build here.

Here's an example of a config that we have tested and that performs (using
ProTools) very close to a G5 dual 2.5 GHz.

WS Full case 
550watt ps 12v    
X5DAL-TG2 : eATX DualXeon FSB533 DDR266 UD100 AGP8X w/ LAN
3.2GHz 533MHz L3-1M 604-Pin
3.2GHz 533MHz L3-1M 604-Pin
FireGL X2-256t     

Segate 250Gb Serial ATA
Segate 250Gb Serial ATA
CD-RW+DVD Combo 52X32X52+16X Internal
Plextor® PX-712A 12x DVD±R/W Drive
        
1gb ECC reg PC2100 
1gb ECC reg PC2100 
     
Logitec Mouse    
Logietc Muiltimedia KB Black
     
Intel 82546EB Gigabit Ethernet controller
Windows Xp Pro    

This machine is about $5000. You could build it yourself for probably $4300
maybe less. Note the FSB is 533 compared to 1.25 in the G5.

If you order a pimped out G5 off the Apple Store with the more expensive
'Apple' memory and Nvidia video card, you come in around $4700. Since you
can use 3rd party memory and the entry level video card you come in at about
$4000 for this config. I always recommend the phattest video card in case
Doom3 for the Mac comes out or something, but it's not necessary for digital
audio. 

Both of these represent very good hi-performance digital audio computers.

If you call the developer Digidesign and ask them which machine they are
more likely to get tech support calls on, they will say the Wintel box. It's
a fact of life. Digidesign loves the Mac. It's parent company Avid seems to
prefer the PC, because they develop for it first and port to the Mac. But we
consistently have audio and video I/O issues with AVID hardware and software
on the PC, we do not have as much of this on the Mac.

One thing I will conceed is that internationally it is often much more
expensive to be a Mac owner over a PC depending on the country.
      
Eddie
IMS     
     
        
     
     
     





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"Wee have also Sound-Houses, wher wee practise and demonstrate all Sounds,
and their Generation. Wee have Harmonies which you have not, of
Quarter-Sounds and lesser Slides of Sounds. Diverse Instruments of Musick
likewise to you unknowne, some sweeter then any you have; Together with
Bells and Rings that are dainty and sweet. Wee represent Small Sounds as
Great and Deepe; Likewise Great Sounds, Extenuate and Sharpe; Wee make
diverse Tremblings and Warblings of Sounds, which in their Originall are
Entire. Wee rep resent and imitate all Articulate Sounds and Letters, and
the Voices and Notes of Beasts and Birds. Wee have certaine Helps, which
sett to the Eare doe further the Hearing greatly. Wee have also diverse
Strange and Artificiall Eccho's, Reflecting the Voice many times, and as it
were Tossing it; And some that give back the Voice Lowder then it came, some
Shriller, and some Deeper; Yea, some rendring the Voice, Differing in the
Letters or Articulate Sound, from that they receyve. Wee have also meanes to
convey Sounds in Trunks and Pipes, in strange Lines, and Distances."
Francis Bacon's New Atlantis (1624)