Re: [Logic_Cafe] Group Buy / LUG Jealousy
2006-08-11 by GAmoore@aol.com
Hi Duane
I am not sure how my message to the Logic Cafe this morning got onto the LUG, but if you are interested in the group buy you do not have to join the Logic Cafe, just let me know, and I will later forward the interested parties directly to Izotope. So there is no risk of any sort.
I have heard from several people that Jeremy, the LUG administrator, is banning messages regarding this list and this group buy, and seems to be trying to derail this group buy and this list, and personally slander me. Its kinda funny to me - they have the megagroup and we have a small group which is no threat to them, so I don't understand the animosity. I think the world is big enough for different groups with different focuses.
Actually a lot of people have been banned from the LUG for the most minor of infractions, at least since Joeri stopped moderating the list. I'll tell you my story if you want to hear it. I have been on the various versions of the LUG since 1995, and Joeri made me a moderator around 2000, before Jeremy was even a member of the LUG. I was also a Logic Beta tester for versions 3.x. About two years ago, Orren Merton said something like XXXXX, and someone else said YYYYY. I quoted them like this : "Re : XXXXX and YYYYY... my response is.....ZZZZZ". I did not put any names at all, I just concatenated two long messages into a shorter message with the pertinent points to save space, and it was not any incendiary topic. So then Orren Merton wrote my name and called me a liar to the entire list because I had put his message together with the other guy. Orren made some other hot headed comments which were insulting and not respectful, and when I complained about it privately to admins, they backed Orren who had just become and moderator, and banned me just like that, no appeal, no grace period, no warning. Bam.
I did not notice it at first, but other people pointed out to me, that the LUG moderates most people, but there are certain "golden children" who are allowed to post anything they want - for example, f-erenc. These people are usually pretty knowledgable in Logic, and often have great comments that add a lot to the list, but they also say some insulting things to people and get away with it, while "common" people are censored and have their messages banned for the tiniest excuse. So there is a huge double standard - its not a democracy or a collegial administration - its more of a dictatorship. And its sad to me, because there were several great owner/moderators who got it started, and it used to be much different and much friendlier. (By the way, I have seen Orren Merton in person at some local Logic meetings - as recently as two weeks ago, and even asked him a question politely and he responded politely. I don't have any ill feelings toward them. So I don't understand why they don't think of the good that these group buys would be for people of all lists.)
This list is not about me - its about an idea. The idea of this list was not to censor people, not to ban their messages (other than spammers of course), not to chastise and criticize and micro-manage, and not to treat people like children. Thats my philosophy, and I at times people have criticized me directly on this list, and I still did not ban them or ban their messages. Try that on the LUG! I feel that having an open and honest group means that I have to allow people to say things I do not like at times.
I would also like to say, that if anyone is interested in being a moderator of this list, and helping to get the membership up, please let me know. This list is meant as a true alternative to the 20,000 member / 200 messages a day list. There are probably 20 times that many total users, so there room for all of us! So I hope this list, and others like it, prosper regardless of me - because its important for the world wide Logic users to have forums like this.
I would hope to see half a dozen Logic groups with different emphases. When you ask on the LUG "what compressor sounds the best" you may not realize that while you're doing hard trance, the guy answering it might be doing big band jazz. I bought the Logic user CDs some years ago, and was amazed to hear very old fashioned traditional sounding music that was nothing like what I was doing. So it might be more natural to focus on the genre of music perhaps even moreso than the tool to create it.
Wondering why this is? I have no problem with rebels but banned for life! Care to make your case since I may not want to be dealing with this group.
I am not sure how my message to the Logic Cafe this morning got onto the LUG, but if you are interested in the group buy you do not have to join the Logic Cafe, just let me know, and I will later forward the interested parties directly to Izotope. So there is no risk of any sort.
I have heard from several people that Jeremy, the LUG administrator, is banning messages regarding this list and this group buy, and seems to be trying to derail this group buy and this list, and personally slander me. Its kinda funny to me - they have the megagroup and we have a small group which is no threat to them, so I don't understand the animosity. I think the world is big enough for different groups with different focuses.
Actually a lot of people have been banned from the LUG for the most minor of infractions, at least since Joeri stopped moderating the list. I'll tell you my story if you want to hear it. I have been on the various versions of the LUG since 1995, and Joeri made me a moderator around 2000, before Jeremy was even a member of the LUG. I was also a Logic Beta tester for versions 3.x. About two years ago, Orren Merton said something like XXXXX, and someone else said YYYYY. I quoted them like this : "Re : XXXXX and YYYYY... my response is.....ZZZZZ". I did not put any names at all, I just concatenated two long messages into a shorter message with the pertinent points to save space, and it was not any incendiary topic. So then Orren Merton wrote my name and called me a liar to the entire list because I had put his message together with the other guy. Orren made some other hot headed comments which were insulting and not respectful, and when I complained about it privately to admins, they backed Orren who had just become and moderator, and banned me just like that, no appeal, no grace period, no warning. Bam.
I did not notice it at first, but other people pointed out to me, that the LUG moderates most people, but there are certain "golden children" who are allowed to post anything they want - for example, f-erenc. These people are usually pretty knowledgable in Logic, and often have great comments that add a lot to the list, but they also say some insulting things to people and get away with it, while "common" people are censored and have their messages banned for the tiniest excuse. So there is a huge double standard - its not a democracy or a collegial administration - its more of a dictatorship. And its sad to me, because there were several great owner/moderators who got it started, and it used to be much different and much friendlier. (By the way, I have seen Orren Merton in person at some local Logic meetings - as recently as two weeks ago, and even asked him a question politely and he responded politely. I don't have any ill feelings toward them. So I don't understand why they don't think of the good that these group buys would be for people of all lists.)
This list is not about me - its about an idea. The idea of this list was not to censor people, not to ban their messages (other than spammers of course), not to chastise and criticize and micro-manage, and not to treat people like children. Thats my philosophy, and I at times people have criticized me directly on this list, and I still did not ban them or ban their messages. Try that on the LUG! I feel that having an open and honest group means that I have to allow people to say things I do not like at times.
I would also like to say, that if anyone is interested in being a moderator of this list, and helping to get the membership up, please let me know. This list is meant as a true alternative to the 20,000 member / 200 messages a day list. There are probably 20 times that many total users, so there room for all of us! So I hope this list, and others like it, prosper regardless of me - because its important for the world wide Logic users to have forums like this.
I would hope to see half a dozen Logic groups with different emphases. When you ask on the LUG "what compressor sounds the best" you may not realize that while you're doing hard trance, the guy answering it might be doing big band jazz. I bought the Logic user CDs some years ago, and was amazed to hear very old fashioned traditional sounding music that was nothing like what I was doing. So it might be more natural to focus on the genre of music perhaps even moreso than the tool to create it.
Wondering why this is? I have no problem with rebels but banned for life! Care to make your case since I may not want to be dealing with this group.