Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

As a relative newbie to Logic 9 I wondered if 
anyone could give me some advice about setting 
up reverb busses. 

Do most use Space Designer and if so what are 
your preferred settings for vocals and acoustic 
instruments? I mainly record acoustic guitar, 
mandolin, banjo and vocals (via a pair of 414s) 
as well as some electric guitar, bass and 
keyboards.

I'm trying to set up a few different templates 
but finding it hard to sort out the myriad of 
reverb settings available.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

very best
Paul

well the basic set up is to put a reverb on a bus, and then reference 
that bus on each of your tracks, and turn the send up appropriately.  
You can also EQ the reverb to make it less muddy when combined with the 
rest.

a more advanced set up is to have three reverbs - maybe a short one, a 
long one, and plate setting. then have a 3 dimensional aspect to the 
song - with some things up front and some things more in the back. 
three busses, three sends.

and lastly, less is more. back off the reverb so you can't hear it, but 
if you mute the track you hear a difference. its just a slight shimmer 
- not a retro over do.

Sorry, but could you repeat the question? The answer sounds  
interesting but I can only guess at what the question was as it didn't  
come through to me!

Andy B

On 17 Aug 2010, at 18:39, GAmoore@... wrote:

> well the basic set up is to put a reverb on a bus, and then reference
> that bus on each of your tracks, and turn the send up appropriately.
> You can also EQ the reverb to make it less muddy when combined with  
> the
> rest.
>
> a more advanced set up is to have three reverbs - maybe a short one, a
> long one, and plate setting. then have a 3 dimensional aspect to the
> song - with some things up front and some things more in the back.
> three busses, three sends.
>
> and lastly, less is more. back off the reverb so you can't hear it,  
> but
> if you mute the track you hear a difference. its just a slight shimmer
> - not a retro over do.
>
>
>

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Andy Brook <bbgrove@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, but could you repeat the question? The answer sounds  
> interesting but I can only guess at what the question was as it didn't  
> come through to me!
> 
> Andy B

This was my original post Andy

As a relative newbie to Logic 9 I wondered if
anyone could give me some advice about setting
up reverb busses.

Do most use Space Designer and if so what are
your preferred settings for vocals and acoustic
instruments? I mainly record acoustic guitar,
mandolin, banjo and vocals (via a pair of 414s)
as well as some electric guitar, bass and
keyboards.

I'm trying to set up a few different templates
but finding it hard to sort out the myriad of
reverb settings available.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

very best
Paul

Paul,

     First off, I know that it's allegedly WRONG, but I often use reverb as an insert effect.  I began doing it initially because it sounded better in the days before Logic had built in delay compensation.      I still prefer the sound of using it as an insert effect.      I will sometimes group instruments or voices, and designate their output to an aux/bus.   Then I'll have the SpaceDesigner as an insert for that group of backing vocals (for example).   

     Second, I would STRONGLY recommend that you, and anybody using logic download these free Impulse responses from a Lexicon reverb unit.   My Logic projects took a significant jump up in quality with these.   They are free:   http://practicalsampling.com/960impulses.zip

       The download is a gig or so, it takes a while.   

       I didn't feel dis-satisfied with the factory IR files in SoundDesigner until I used the Lexicon.     I still use the factory IRs, but now I always wonder if I could be using something better.  

      To use your own IR files:   drag and drop them onto the Space Designer interface.  Then when you Save As make sure to check the box to s"ave the impulse response into the project folder."   

       On vocals, I often use a short stereo delay, followed by a plate.    Ballads, more effects, especially on the chorus of the song.   Uptempo songs, much less.     The delay leaves much of the clarity in tact, yet lets the vocal have a sense of space.      Reverb on vocals can get washy and weird pretty quickly.   

       Choosing a reverb for your instrument and song is so subjective.  Hard to say what to use.   A hall reverb, medium might be a good starting place.   

        Pete

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "studio16a" <studio16a@...> wrote:

>
> As a relative newbie to Logic 9 I wondered if 
> anyone could give me some advice about setting 
> up reverb busses. 
> 
> Do most use Space Designer and if so what are 
> your preferred settings for vocals and acoustic 
> instruments? I mainly record acoustic guitar, 
> mandolin, banjo and vocals (via a pair of 414s) 
> as well as some electric guitar, bass and 
> keyboards.
> 
> I'm trying to set up a few different templates 
> but finding it hard to sort out the myriad of 
> reverb settings available.
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> very best
> Paul
>

Thanks for reposting the question, and for the answer. I'm  
experimenting with exactly this topic right now, as a novice. I doubt  
if I have much useful to add, other than to explain a mistake I have  
been making in case anyone else has been doing the same. Without a  
teacher it isn't always easy to tell which things are really important  
and which aren't. I have only just understood that one reason for  
sending tracks to an aux for certain effects to be processed is that  
by sending multiple tracks, they all get treated in the same way and  
can sound more cohesive (if that is what you want - you presumably  
wouldn't treat lead and backing vocals the same way). I think I have  
something to learn about sending the effect back to the source as well.

At least I am beginning to know what I don't know, which is always a  
start.

Andy B

On 18 Aug 2010, at 16:41, Peter B wrote:

> Paul,
>
> First off, I know that it's allegedly WRONG, but I often use reverb  
> as an insert effect. I began doing it initially because it sounded  
> better in the days before Logic had built in delay compensation. I  
> still prefer the sound of using it as an insert effect. I will  
> sometimes group instruments or voices, and designate their output to  
> an aux/bus. Then I'll have the SpaceDesigner as an insert for that  
> group of backing vocals (for example).
>
> Second, I would STRONGLY recommend that you, and anybody using logic  
> download these free Impulse responses from a Lexicon reverb unit. My  
> Logic projects took a significant jump up in quality with these.  
> They are free: http://practicalsampling.com/960impulses.zip
>
> The download is a gig or so, it takes a while.
>
> I didn't feel dis-satisfied with the factory IR files in  
> SoundDesigner until I used the Lexicon. I still use the factory IRs,  
> but now I always wonder if I could be using something better.
>
> To use your own IR files: drag and drop them onto the Space Designer  
> interface. Then when you Save As make sure to check the box to s"ave  
> the impulse response into the project folder."
>
> On vocals, I often use a short stereo delay, followed by a plate.  
> Ballads, more effects, especially on the chorus of the song. Uptempo  
> songs, much less. The delay leaves much of the clarity in tact, yet  
> lets the vocal have a sense of space. Reverb on vocals can get washy  
> and weird pretty quickly.
>
> Choosing a reverb for your instrument and song is so subjective.  
> Hard to say what to use. A hall reverb, medium might be a good  
> starting place.
>
> Pete
>
> --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "studio16a" <studio16a@...> wrote:
> >
> > As a relative newbie to Logic 9 I wondered if
> > anyone could give me some advice about setting
> > up reverb busses.
> >
> > Do most use Space Designer and if so what are
> > your preferred settings for vocals and acoustic
> > instruments? I mainly record acoustic guitar,
> > mandolin, banjo and vocals (via a pair of 414s)
> > as well as some electric guitar, bass and
> > keyboards.
> >
> > I'm trying to set up a few different templates
> > but finding it hard to sort out the myriad of
> > reverb settings available.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > very best
> > Paul
> >
>

The original purpose of the sends is to process multiple tracks with 
one effect - to save CPU power, and originallhy because maybe there was 
only one real hardware reverb. It also makes things more cohesive but 
overused more boring too.

The sends go from individual tracks to the busses, and then the 
original tracks and the busses all get mixed back into one output 
usually. To they don't go from the busses back to the tracks. Its a one 
way trip but more of a fork in the road - with original track and then 
some fraction (depending on the send level) going to the buss of busses.

On the other hand, an individual track has inserts which give affects 
only to that track and nothing else.

There are also inserts on the master output track that apply to 
everything - usually this is done very sparingly - like a slight bit of 
compression or warmth.



-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Brook <bbgrove@...>
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Aug 18, 2010 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Reverb Busses

 
Thanks for reposting the question, and for the answer. I'm
experimenting with exactly this topic right now, as a novice. I doubt
if I have much useful to add, other than to explain a mistake I have
been making in case anyone else has been doing the same. Without a
teacher it isn't always easy to tell which things are really important
and which aren't. I have only just understood that one reason for
sending tracks to an aux for certain effects to be processed is that
by sending multiple tracks, they all get treated in the same way and
can sound more cohesive (if that is what you want - you presumably
wouldn't treat lead and backing vocals the same way). I think I have
something to learn about sending the effect back to the source as well.

At least I am beginning to know what I don't know, which is always a
start.

Andy B

On 18 Aug 2010, at 16:41, Peter B wrote:

> Paul,
>
> First off, I know that it's allegedly WRONG, but I often use 
reverb
> as an insert effect. I began doing it initially because it sounded 

> better in the days before Logic had built in delay compensation. I 

> still prefer the sound of using it as an insert effect. I will
> sometimes group instruments or voices, and designate their output 
to
> an aux/bus. Then I'll have the SpaceDesigner as an insert for that 

> group of backing vocals (for example).
>
> Second, I would STRONGLY recommend that you, and anybody using 
logic
> download these free Impulse responses from a Lexicon reverb unit. 
My
> Logic projects took a significant jump up in quality with these.
> They are free: http://practicalsampling.com/960impulses.zip
>
> The download is a gig or so, it takes a while.
>
&gt; I didn't feel dis-satisfied with the factory IR files in
> SoundDesigner until I used the Lexicon. I still use the factory 
IRs,
> but now I always wonder if I could be using something better.
>
> To use your own IR files: drag and drop them onto the Space 
Designer
> interface. Then when you Save As make sure to check the box to 
s"ave
> the impulse response into the project folder."
>
> On vocals, I often use a short stereo delay, followed by a plate.
> Ballads, more effects, especially on the chorus of the song. 
Uptempo
> songs, much less. The delay leaves much of the clarity in tact, 
yet
> lets the vocal have a sense of space. Reverb on vocals can get 
washy
> and weird pretty quickly.
>
> Choosing a reverb for your instrument and song is so subjective.
> Hard to say what to use. A hall reverb, medium might be a good
> starting place.
>
> Pete
>
> --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "studio16a" 
<studio16a@...> wrote:

> >
> > As a relative newbie to Logic 9 I wondered if
> > anyone could give me some advice about setting
> > up reverb busses.
> >
> > Do most use Space Designer and if so what are
> > your preferred settings for vocals and acoustic
> > instruments? I mainly record acoustic guitar,
> > mandolin, banjo and vocals (via a pair of 414s)
> > as well as some electric guitar, bass and
> > keyboards.
> >
> > I'm trying to set up a few different templates
> > but finding it hard to sort out the myriad of
> > reverb settings available.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > very best
> > Paul
> >
>

>
> There are also inserts on the master output track that apply to
> everything - usually this is done very sparingly - like a slight bit  
> of
> compression or warmth.
>
So do you reckon that Logic's pre-set master channel strips overdo  
things, then? To my untutored ears they seem to brighten things up but  
I know that may just be fools gold....

Andy B