Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

Logic used to never crash for me (versions 2.5 .... 6), and I marveled at its 
stability - but I was doing mostly midi then with only a few audio tracks 
too. I think the crashing increased in 6.4 and got much worse with 7. I am so 
nervous to use it now, that whenever I record something cool in midi, I 
immediately save the song lest it crash and I lose everything.

Maybe those of us experiencing crashes can compare notes to see what things 
we might have in common :


Hardware :
G4/400 --> G4/1.2 (sonnet board)
RAM : 1 G (512 + 256 + 128 + 128) ... I can't find the Apple test disk to 
check the ram
Boards : 
     M-audio audiophile (driver seems a little flakey, actually but its the 
most up to date)
     UAudio
     Adaptec 29160 SCSI board (not being used recently)
Steal Serial port (no longer be used)


Typical Crash Circumstances
Almost never when using external midi synths only
Sometimes crashes with just one or a few audio samples and nothing else
Almost every 20 minutes when using 10 virtual instruments (most frozen) and 8 
or 10 audio tracks
- crashed a few times when freezing or unfreezing a single GPO track
- crashes sometimes having to do with cycling

Also, the setup wizard crashed at the very end (after spending five minutes 
going through all the plug validiations)


Type of Crash :
- Logic just disappears - no error message - poof gone
- circular file structure or "logic must quit" warnings
- machine locks up, mouse won't move, need to hit the reset button on the cpu

Other Crashing Apps
I only do music on that computer primarily. Excel, Photoshop, Wordperfect in 
Classic all worked fine - even some really huge Photoshop files with 80mb 
files.

Maintence Steps :
- Sudo Periodic Daily, etc...
- Repair Permissions
- Diskwarrior 3.02


Typical Logic Song :
0 - 10 virtual instruments
2 - 5 midi tracks (external synths)
2-10 audio tracks
(although I have had crashes in songs with a single audio file)

> Message: 1
>    Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:45:01 EST
>    From: GAmoore@...
> Subject: Conditions of Crashes (was Sounding off
>
> Logic used to never crash for me (versions 2.5 .... 6), and I marveled 
> at its
> stability -
Same here, no problems until Apple put their name on the box
>  I am so
> nervous to use it now, that whenever I record something cool in midi, I
> immediately save the song lest it crash and I lose everything.
  I save after every move I make!
I am nervous that 7.1 will make it worse instead of better!
>
> Maybe those of us experiencing crashes can compare notes to see what 
> things
> we might have in common :
>
> Hardware :
> G4/DP 1Ghz
OS 10.3.7
> RAM : 1.5 G (256 + 512 + 512 + 256)
  4 ATA Hard Drives  480 Gig
> PCI Boards :
>    MOTU HD192&2408MKIII
>    TC Powercore
       UAD-1
>     Adaptec 29160 SCSI board ( used for DDS back up and restore 
> purposes only)

> Typical Crash Circumstances
Every time I close a song.
Other crashes are so numerous and under so many different circumstances 
I can't remember what takes place
I know sometimes it happens when opening a plug in both Logic and third 
party.
I don't even bother trying to use my Stylus 
RMX,Atmosphere,Trilogy,Plugsound,waves,Powercore,or UAD plug ins.
> Almost never when using external midi synths only
> I never use freeze.
>
> Type of Crash :
> - Logic just disappears - no error message - poof gone, yeah same here!
   I like the part where I can submit some foul language to Apple 
though. I sure it goes straight to their trash can.
> - circular file structure or "logic must quit" warnings,  not so many 
> of these.
> -
> Other Crashing Apps
> Nothing else I use crashes except for Safari every now and then.

> Maintence Steps :
> -- Repair Permissions
> Mac Janitor
   Cocktail
   I even reformatted my drive and installed new OSX and L7 both
> Typical Logic Song :
> 0 - 20 virtual instruments
> 2 - 5 midi tracks (external synths)
> 2-20 audio tracks
> (although I have had crashes in songs with a single audio file)
  I have used Logic since ATARI 1040ST starting in the late 80s and this 
is absolutely the most unstable version to date, in fact you could add 
all the other issues I had with previous versions and that still would 
not match the problems I have with L7. I have earned a living for the 
last 15 years using Logic and I don't consider myself a power user , 
but I move fast enough to keep clients coming back , but this has 
changed as of November 04.
I'm trying to keep the faith!
  Alan Hayes
Memphis,Tn.
>

)
>   I have used Logic since ATARI 1040ST starting in the late 80s 
and this 
> is absolutely the most unstable version to date, in fact you could 
add 
> all the other issues I had with previous versions and that still 
would 
> not match the problems I have with L7. I have earned a living for 
the 
> last 15 years using Logic and I don't consider myself a power 
user , 
> but I move fast enough to keep clients coming back , but this has 
> changed as of November 04.
> I'm trying to keep the faith!
>   Alan Hayes
> Memphis,Tn.
> >


Hey Alan


Yah I still have my 1040 running, but I tell yah, I have watched 
several Atari monitors go up in flames in my day.(2 actually....they 
just start smoking and burning inside). At least my mac doesn't do 
that. The last time my Atari smouldered I went out and got a Mac 
system (aroung 1996) although I still went out and bought another 
Atari monitor.

At any rate, regarding your constant crashes, do you use the scroll 
bars? I had issues with that for awhile, until all my plugs were 
updated (the scroll bar updates, not the very first Logic7 Au 
updates)
I also found that putting all the files in the locations Logic wants 
was beneficial as well, ie where they are recommended in the PDF 
update file. I put all my old presets in the places they recommend 
(see the PDF for specifics)
Although I hear that that wasn't really all that important, I find 
it works for me. 
I also trashed all my old Logic preferences, as well as emptied the 
cache (~/library/cache and library/cache). 
I don't use waves but I do use RMX and Stylus with no problems at 
all.
Ok you probably don't want to hear this (or maybe you do) but my 
system doesn't crash at all anymore. I use it 7 days a week about 10-
16 hours a day. I never turn it off and I never defrag. I have a 
raptor internal as well as the standard mac one, and I record audio 
freely to both (the Raptor clicks when recording but otherwise works 
fine). I haven't partitioned my drives and I keep all my samples in 
the logic folder (ie~/library/applicationsupport/logic/samples...the 
one that has channel strip settings, plug-in settins, sampler 
instruments, templates etc.) 
My application itself is in ~/applications and the autoload song is 
in ~/music/logic folder. Since I put everything where it was 
recommended I no longer get crashes on saving (only had that a 
couple of times at any rate).
The only real problem I have is with my firewire 410, which fucks up 
every time I switch the external sample rate (it reads it from my TC-
finalizer via spdif) to match the different rates I have recorded 
projects on in Logic. Sometimes it might crash Logic, but as long as 
I switch sample rates when Logic is not running it usually works 
(although it takes forever to recognize 48 )

I have a G5 2x2 with 2.5 gigs of Ram and osx 10.3.7
I could never get the old Logic 6.anything to work with Logic 7 
unless I trashed the preferences (I do have 6.4 still on and it 
loads fine, but I haven't set it up or created new preferences) so I 
lost it all, and kept 7. Garage band won't work, but that's all 
right.

Ok I hope this helps, good luck, and don't shoot your mac (yet)

David,
Wow! Up in flames eh, that never happened to me, I switched to a a 
Power Computing Mac clone around the same time you did your Mac 
conversion, after all the heads on my three DA-88s were going to cost 
$700.00 + to be replaced.
Anyway on to business,
I do use scroll bars, and I have tried to keep all my AUs to their 
latest version. I think I had one scroll bar crash when I was trying to 
use some of my waves plugs.
I reformatted my system drive and reinstalled Logic to wherever it 
wanted to reside.
So is the location the PDF tells you different than where Logic 
actually puts them?
Speaking of presets, Logic can't find all the old Sound Designer 
presets that were used in V6 , are they even included in the new 
presets or do I need to load them back in from version 6 disks?
I did trash my prefs and built a whole new Autoload.
All the Spectrasonics stuff pops and clicks now that I reloaded 
everything. I'm sure it is some preference I haven't gotten set back to 
where it was. Although I have my buffer set the same at 128.
I also failed to mention in my gear list that I have a Unitor, Logic 
Control,(2)XTs and a Mackie C4.
I'm completely okay with your system working well and everyone else's 
too and I only wish this best for everyone who uses Logic and  hope I 
haven't come off as being bitter, It just  really baffles me that some 
of these folks use the same gear as i do and have no problems at all, 
but seriously I hope I haven't offended anybody here and some of my 
redneck humor hasn't  been taken the wrong way. I have continued doing 
sessions (although stressful at times)
with Logic in what I consider very untypical behavior for the program 
and my 15 or so years as a user.
  I actually have taken heart that I get some response off this list as 
I seem to be rather ignored on the LUG for some reason?
Maybe I should leave my machine on all the time? I'm just a little 
paranoid especially after your ATARI  monitor story.
I do have my system disk partitioned and use one for audio and the 
other for sys/apps.
I keep all my samples on a completely different drive, I have four 
installed all internal.
> I do not know about this(~/music/logic folder) , I have always had a 
> separate folder with the name Logic that I have kept mine and my 300 
> or so clients song files in. Should I just put my Autoload in there or 
> all my songs?

I was reading on the LUG that most folks store there songs and audio 
files together and I have always kept mine on separate drives.
David you are a real champ for trying to help me and I 
really,really,really appreciate your efforts and you have indeed
set me on some new paths to trouble shoot!
Thanks Again!
Alan
  located On Jan 15, 2005, at 10:09 AM, Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Yah I still have my 1040 running, but I tell yah, I have watched
> several Atari monitors go up in flames in my day.(2 actually....they
> just start smoking and burning inside). At least my mac doesn't do
> that. The last time my Atari smouldered I went out and got a Mac
> system (aroung 1996) although I still went out and bought another
> Atari monitor.
>
> At any rate, regarding your constant crashes, do you use the scroll
> bars? I had issues with that for awhile, until all my plugs were
> updated (the scroll bar updates, not the very first Logic7 Au
> updates)
> I also found that putting all the files in the locations Logic wants
> was beneficial as well, ie where they are recommended in the PDF
> update file. I put all my old presets in the places they recommend
> (see the PDF for specifics)
> Although I hear that that wasn't really all that important, I find
> it works for me.
> I also trashed all my old Logic preferences, as well as emptied the
> cache (~/library/cache and library/cache).
> I don't use waves but I do use RMX and Stylus with no problems at
> all.
> Ok you probably don't want to hear this (or maybe you do) but my
> system doesn't crash at all anymore. I use it 7 days a week about 10-
> 16 hours a day. I never turn it off and I never defrag. I have a
> raptor internal as well as the standard mac one, and I record audio
> freely to both (the Raptor clicks when recording but otherwise works
> fine). I haven't partitioned my drives and I keep all my samples in
> the logic folder (ie~/library/applicationsupport/logic/samples...the
> one that has channel strip settings, plug-in settins, sampler
> instruments, templates etc.)
> My application itself is in ~/applications and the autoload song is
> in ~/music/logic folder. Since I put everything where it was
> recommended I no longer get crashes on saving (only had that a
> couple of times at any rate).
> The only real problem I have is with my firewire 410, which fucks up
> every time I switch the external sample rate (it reads it from my TC-
> finalizer via spdif) to match the different rates I have recorded
> projects on in Logic. Sometimes it might crash Logic, but as long as
> I switch sample rates when Logic is not running it usually works
> (although it takes forever to recognize 48 )
>
> I have a G5 2x2 with 2.5 gigs of Ram and osx 10.3.7
> I could never get the old Logic 6.anything to work with Logic 7
> unless I trashed the preferences (I do have 6.4 still on and it
> loads fine, but I haven't set it up or created new preferences) so I
> lost it all, and kept 7. Garage band won't work, but that's all
> right.
>
> Ok I hope this helps, good luck, and don't shoot your mac (yet)

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, K. Alan Hayes <eartoyz@b...> 
wrote:
> Speaking of presets, Logic can't find all the old Sound Designer 
> presets that were used in V6 , are they even included in the new 
> presets or do I need to load them back in from version 6 disks?


I don't think they are included (at least by the same name). 
According to the pdf update, if you leave them 
in /Applications/Logic 6 Series/Impulse responses, they should show 
up as a subfolder in the Settins menu (assuming you have the new 
impulse responses in ~/Library/Application Support/Logic 
or /Application Support/Logic.

If you still have them on the system and aren't in the menu, then 
Logic recommends you move them to ~/Library/Application 
Support/Logic/Impulse Responses. Otherwise you'll have to reload 
them.

I have them there so that when I open Space Designer, in the 
settings menu I have all the old Logic 6 presets available, and the 
new Logic 7 presets are in the subfolder directory under factory 
 here's what I mean

http://fictionmusic.tv/pdfs/sd.pdf

I didn't move my files around actually...I left them where Logic 7 
put them, with the exception of any presets I wanted listed first. 
In that case I would put them in the ~/Library/Application 
Support/Logic/ (which is the default location of "Save" or "Save As" 
for plug-ins)

Factory settings are in /Library/Application Support/Logic/
User settings are in ~/Library/Application Support/Logic/


as far as the autoload goes it says
"~/Music/Logic is the default setting for Open/Save/Save as


Not sure if this will help or if you are on top of it already. BTW I 
didn't think your comments were red-necked in the least, I just know 
how frustrating it can be when someone calmly insists their system 
is working fine when your own is crashing.
Ok, good luck. Adios.