Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

Thanks for the thorough explanation Dennis. But...I don't think I would ever 
try to monitor off a round trip - preferring a line off of the input direct to 
the headphones before hitting the computer at all - a cheap and easy way to 
get zero latency. As for trying to double track a second guitar part to the 
pre-recorded first part, I am not sure to what extent delay compensation will 
compensate for both A/D and D/A... but I don't worry. I just cut the start off 
most audio files anyway to get them in line.

More generally, the situation you're talking about has been the apple story 
all along. The windows world has always been a more free-wheeling wild west - 
whereas Apple has maintained stronger control over developers in many ways, 
including the user interface. (In fact, thats why its so strange that Logic 7 
doesn't seem to use the same buttons and has the gray backgrounds which is not 
common.)   Maybe those extra buffers make the system more stable (in theory ... 
because I have driver problems all the time with m-audio).

The one part of that scenario that doesn't fit, is that Apple makes computer 
"for the rest of us" but they also push their high end systems as alternatives 
to graphics workstations and (I imagine) Protool rigs. Who is going to spend 
$3k on a CPU, $3k on a monitor, and $1k+ on ram, hard drives, audio boards, 
etc.... $7k system without the software...thats not aunt marie's email system.

On Jan 25, 2005, at 3:55 PM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> Thanks for the thorough explanation Dennis. But...I don't think I 
> would ever try to monitor off a round trip

Maybe *you* wouldn't but the Logic Team made Guitar Amp for *somebody* 
just like Native Instruments made Guitar Rig for *somebody*.  In fact 
RadioHead's guitarist plays his guitar through a laptop on stage and I 
know lots of Windows guys that do it.  In fact on the most recent live 
gig I played the other guitarist was playing through Guitar Rig on a 
windows laptop.  So monitoring latency does matter to *somebody* 
whether that somebody is you or not.

I tried to be among those somebodies who are content with software 
monitoring very hard but eventually gave up because of the issues I 
have described.  I just hate latency.

> - preferring a line off of the input direct to the headphones before 
> hitting the computer at all - a cheap and easy way to get zero 
> latency.

What if you want to monitor with compression or if you are laying down 
a mondo distorted guitar track?  Any guitarist will tell you it just 
does not do to monitor a guitar without distortion that is going to be 
heavily distorted in the track.  The interplay with the distortion is 
just too much a part of the performance for applying it after the fact 
to be an acceptable solution.

The monitoring scheme in logic is brilliant and but for the latency 
problem it would beat the hell out of PT systems.

Anyway I gave up on software monitoring (the fact that it is in there 
and you can set the IO buffers at all is pretty strong evidence that 
*somebody* cares about the issue) but not before trying very hard to 
make it work.  My frustration is that it *almost* could work.  Even the 
most demanding players I work with find a 32 sample IO buffer 
acceptable.  The problem is at that setting there are errors and the 
errors get recorded.

> As for trying to double track a second guitar part to the pre-recorded 
> first part, I am not sure to what extent delay compensation will 
> compensate for both A/D and D/A... but I don't worry. I just cut the 
> start off most audio files anyway to get them in line.

Delay compensation has nothing to do with this particular problem, it 
is solely about monitoring latency.  But if something about the 
recorder forces you to adjust the timing after the fact to get things 
properly aligned then there is something seriously wrong.

>  The one part of that scenario that doesn't fit, is that Apple makes 
> computer "for the rest of us" but they also push their high end 
> systems as alternatives to graphics workstations and (I imagine) 
> Protool rigs. Who is going to spend $3k on a CPU, $3k on a monitor, 
> and $1k+ on ram, hard drives, audio boards, etc.... $7k system without 
> the software...thats not aunt marie's email system.

I see *lots* of people running Pro Tools on the same Mac they use for 
everything else.