Marcos Maniacs

Garry,

You'd mentioned a brake upgrade for the Marcos, can you email me 
details/price?
I currently have a single reservoir master cylinder single circuit 
brake system with the GT6/Herald front discs and rear Capri drums.  
I'm looking for a two circuit dual resevoir design upgrade for sure 
and possibly a disc brake upgrade as well.

Thanks,
Paul

Hi Paul,
  Here is part one of the answers to your questions.
Firstly, brakes. Most Vintage organisations have their own interpretation 
but I have gone with the SVRA rule which says you can upgrade the brakes but 
stay in period, ie no Willwood Aluminum calipers on a '61 Sprite. I have a 
set of Cast calipers and pads which give about 50% more area and are almost 
bolt on. I have stayed with solid, but grooved and dimpled rotors which is 
allowed. This should be OK for you since you have an 84 although I will 
admit it is a bit of a stretch on my '69. I have always worked with the tech 
guys BEFORE turning up for my first event since they are far more receptive 
that way. It is a strange anomoly that It is OK for me to run a fairly 
modern 850hp big block Chevy in the CanAm car but they make me run 30 year 
old brakes.

I can't find the pictures of the brake kit before assembly but will send 
them when I find then.

If you wish I can supply a complete kit which includes the small mods needed 
to make everything a bolt on fit. I haven't finalized the price yet but 
think about $600 complete.

Secondly, Dual braking systems.
  This is more complicated. The issue is the amount of room in the pedal box 
and the need for it still to be moveable.
My original idea was to run with a balance bar at the pedal box with twin 
(side by side) master cylinders and remote reservoirs. However, there is not 
enough room to locate them side by side without fouling the threaded fore 
and aft adjuster rod. My plan was to relocate the adjuster rod and clutch 
mechanism. However I chose a simpler solution by replacing the Master 
cylinder with a duel cylinder('74 Beetle) which has the same bore, a remote 
reservoir, and a Tilton Bias adjuster which I located in the cockpit. This 
meets the rule requiring a duel braking system
I also relocated the pedal box about two inches away from the centerline to 
give me more room to install custom headers.I then cut back the footwell by 
the same amount on either side so I have a clear 4" between the exhaust port 
and the footwell.
  Sorry to be so long winded but I hope you will benefit from my 
experimentation.
I have included some pictures but better ones to follow.

Regards
Garry

PS Give me a call at 404 869 9929 if you would like to chat

>From: "Paul Weidner" <weidnerpaul@...>
>Reply-To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
>To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [MarcosManiacs] Brake upgrade for 84 Marcos
>Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 02:27:03 -0000
>

Hi guys,

When my car was first shipped over to Canada in 1976, I had the factory
modified it to comply with Canadian motor vehicle regulations. This included
a dual braking system with a dual master cylinder in place of the original
single one. The cylinder they used fit in  the pedal box area but
unfortunately I have no idea where it originated. Following the restoration
after the fire in 1978, the car was rebuilt without the dual braking system
so I can't provide any more info. It turns out that the car was actually
first built a few months before the regs requiring a dual braking system
came into effect so it wasn't needed in the first place. I'm sure Rory
McMath could let you know what master cylinder would work.

Gary, would you please send the photo and cost of the passenger side glass
holding bracket.

Regards,

Paul Dransfield
3 litre Volvo

-----Original Message-----
From: Garry Diver [mailto:garrydiver@...]
Sent: June 22, 2004 10:48 AM
To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MarcosManiacs] Brake upgrade for 84 Marcos


Hi Paul,
  Here is part one of the answers to your questions.
Firstly, brakes. Most Vintage organisations have their own interpretation 
but I have gone with the SVRA rule which says you can upgrade the brakes but

stay in period, ie no Willwood Aluminum calipers on a '61 Sprite. I have a 
set of Cast calipers and pads which give about 50% more area and are almost 
bolt on. I have stayed with solid, but grooved and dimpled rotors which is 
allowed. This should be OK for you since you have an 84 although I will 
admit it is a bit of a stretch on my '69. I have always worked with the tech

guys BEFORE turning up for my first event since they are far more receptive 
that way. It is a strange anomoly that It is OK for me to run a fairly 
modern 850hp big block Chevy in the CanAm car but they make me run 30 year 
old brakes.
I can't find the pictures of the brake kit before assembly but will send 
them when I find then.
If you wish I can supply a complete kit which includes the small mods needed

to make everything a bolt on fit. I haven't finalized the price yet but 
think about $600 complete.
Secondly, Dual braking systems.
  This is more complicated. The issue is the amount of room in the pedal box

and the need for it still to be moveable.
My original idea was to run with a balance bar at the pedal box with twin 
(side by side) master cylinders and remote reservoirs. However, there is not

enough room to locate them side by side without fouling the threaded fore 
and aft adjuster rod. My plan was to relocate the adjuster rod and clutch 
mechanism. However I chose a simpler solution by replacing the Master 
cylinder with a duel cylinder('74 Beetle) which has the same bore, a remote 
reservoir, and a Tilton Bias adjuster which I located in the cockpit. This 
meets the rule requiring a duel braking system
I also relocated the pedal box about two inches away from the centerline to 
give me more room to install custom headers.I then cut back the footwell by 
the same amount on either side so I have a clear 4" between the exhaust port

and the footwell.
  Sorry to be so long winded but I hope you will benefit from my 
experimentation.
I have included some pictures but better ones to follow.
Regards
Garry
PS Give me a call at 404 869 9929 if you would like to chat
>From: "Paul Weidner" <weidnerpaul@...>
>Reply-To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
>To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [MarcosManiacs] Brake upgrade for 84 Marcos
>Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 02:27:03 -0000
>
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

My Mantula has a dual circuit master cylinder which was manufactured 
by Girling for Morgan cars.  It was the Morgan master cylinder from 
the early 70's to the mid 90's.

It fits nicely in the pedal box and still allows for plenty of 
adjustment.

My car then uses a remotely mounted servo connected to the front 
brakes only to achieve more bias to the front.

If you need any more info drop me a line.

Neal

--- In MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Weidner" 
<weidnerpaul@n...> wrote:
> Garry,
> 
> You'd mentioned a brake upgrade for the Marcos, can you email me 
> details/price?
> I currently have a single reservoir master cylinder single circuit 
> brake system with the GT6/Herald front discs and rear Capri 
drums.  
> I'm looking for a two circuit dual resevoir design upgrade for 
sure 

> and possibly a disc brake upgrade as well.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul

--- In MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Diver" 
Garry,
Please check with Rory, I like not having to modify the pedal box, I 
pay a mechanic to do my work and if it's closer to "bolt in" it will 
be cheaper in the long run... My first priority is the master 
cylinder, when thats done then I'll look at the front break upgrade, 
probabally this winter.
<garrydiver@m...> wrote:
> Paul,
> I am pretty sure the original was from a Triumph, and a repacement 
will cost 
> approximately twice what I paid for the VW part unless you can 
find one on E 
> Bay.I will go ahead and find out from Rory .
> Also I will send the picture of the glass holder when I get back 
to Florida 

> at the end of the week.
> 
> Garry
> 
> 
> >From: pauldransfield@i...
> >Reply-To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
> >To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [MarcosManiacs] Brake upgrade for 84 Marcos
> >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:09:16 -0400
> >

Paul,

Sorry it's taken so long to do this.  I have put a couple of photos 
of the Morgan master cylinder in my Mantula in a new album in the 
photos section.

One is of the pedal box the other is my old master cylinder sat on 
my workbench so you can get a better idea of what it looks like.

This was in perfect working order when I changed it (2.5 years ago.  
When I rebuilt my car I decided to replace all the brake components.
If you were interested I could look into shipping it over to you.  
Obviously it needs cleaned up and seals replaced.  Let me know.

For interest I paid £165 for the new one direct from Morgan so $300 
sounds about right.

Cheers,

Neal

Neal & Garry,

First off thanks for the pix, I will be printing them off and 
bringing them to my mechanic to see if he thinks he'll have any 
problem installing it.  It does appear that my pedal box cover (1984 
Mantula US model) may have a smaller access panel than yours Neal.  
The master cylinder looks exactly like the one I looked at in one of 
our club members Morgan Plus 8.  If the mechanic thinks he'll be 
able to make it work I'll go with Garry's new part for the same 
reason that you put a new one in a couple years ago.  
Garry, If I give you the go ahead how long do you think it'll take 
to get the part? I haven't bought from you B4, do you accept pay-pal 
or credit cards, or do I send a check?

Thanks,
Paul
1984 Marcos Mantula #8083
2002 MINI Cooper S
1959 Bugeye (Speedwell bonnet) Sprite project



--- In MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com, "marcosmantula" 
<neal.callaghan@b...> wrote:
> Paul,
> 
> Sorry it's taken so long to do this.  I have put a couple of 
photos 
> of the Morgan master cylinder in my Mantula in a new album in the 
> photos section.
> 
> One is of the pedal box the other is my old master cylinder sat on 
> my workbench so you can get a better idea of what it looks like.
> 
> This was in perfect working order when I changed it (2.5 years 
ago.  
> When I rebuilt my car I decided to replace all the brake 
components.
> If you were interested I could look into shipping it over to you.  
> Obviously it needs cleaned up and seals replaced.  Let me know.
> 
> For interest I paid £165 for the new one direct from Morgan so 
$300 

> sounds about right.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Neal

Nope,
The one he was thinking of wasn't the right one (we figured that out 
because of the pix from Neal).  Neal also emailed me the numbers off 
the extra master he has, the problem is that it's a casting #, not a 
part #.  Ted is trying to contact someone that can cross reference 
casting #'s and parts #'s, no answer yet.  I also emailed Neal today 
asking if he had a record of the part # from when he put the new one 
in.  Hopefully we'll get it figured out next week...
Thanks everyone for all the help so far.
Paul
1984 Marcos # 8083



--- In MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Diver" <garrydiver@m...> 
wrote:

> Paul,
> 
> Did you get the Master Cylinder OK from Ted?
> 
> Garry
> 
> 
> >From: "Paul Weidner" <weidnerpaul@n...>
> >Reply-To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
> >To: MarcosManiacs@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [MarcosManiacs] Re: Brake upgrade for 84 Marcos
> >Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 19:25:05 -0000
> >