Mellotronists

Gee Don,INSULT? Don't you think that's akin to saying that a tron is 
insulting to real violinists?
 There are always going to be die hards who prefer the "real thing" to 
something new.But how many of you here use digital pianos in your gigs 
as opposed to carting around a real grand?I am talking about making an 
instrument that would be reliable for transporting in a live/concert 
situation without broken tapes,motor speed problems,hums,etc.Keep your 
"real" treasured tron at home and use the digital onstage for the 
same sounds.
 I personally LOVE playing Hammond B3s and Steinway Grands but would 
much rather,at age 50,deal with a Korg CX3 to move around or a digital 
piano rackmount.This is the point I was going for...as well as 
something for those of us who aren't so firmly single mindedly 
obsessed that only the REAL thing is a valid instrument.I had an M400 
for 25 years.Now I use the E4K with the Pinder CD Rom disc and I love 
it.The average listener could not tell the difference so what's the 
big deal?                  Regards  Charles

Let me repeat the last 7 lines of your mail:
  > obsessed that only the REAL thing is a valid instrument.I had an M400
  > for 25 years.Now I use the E4K with the Pinder CD Rom disc and I love
  > it.The average listener could not tell the difference so what's the
  > big deal?                  Regards  Charles
  >
  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  > Mellotronists-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Cheers

  Frank Carvalho
  -- Still stuck with sampling. Too many kids and too little money to buy
the real thing.

> From: "charel196" <charel196@...>
   > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:22:45 -0000
   > 
   > Gee Don,INSULT? Don't you think that's akin to saying that a tron
   > is insulting to real violinists?

It sure would be if you played it with a bow and called it a 
"Violin Mk 7"! 

Actually the 'Tron probably did insult a lot of violinists before
folks realized it had a voice of it's own.

Ever played a Yamaha Clavinova?  Is there any argument that it's an
insult to acoustic pianos?

   >  There are always going to be die hards who prefer the "real thing" to 
   > something new.

It has nothing to do with die hards, it's more about the very act of
playing a musical instrument.  I mean, why do you play a musical
instrument at all?  Do you just like hitting buttons?  Do you like to
hear sounds?  'Doubtful.  More likely it's the visceral joy of
interacting with an interesting and wonderful noise-making process,
exploring and discovering it's capabilities, being able to use it as a
form of personal expression, and being inspired by the noise-making
process to make great music.  Now y'r talking.

But you don't interact with digital emulations.  Digital samplers
arguably don't even have a "process" so there's no process to interact
with.  And so they're missing the fundamental point of being a musical
instrument.

Ie., you can't play the blues on a computer.

If you claim that only diehards can tell the difference, howcum it's
so difficult to find many truly memorable solos, riffs or themes
played on digital emulations?

What's worse, digital emulations are particular bad at responding to
the subtleties of personal expression.  Thus, it's really, really
difficult to recognize who's playing a digitial emulation; whether it
be Fripp, Wakeman, Pinder, heck even myself, or a computer.  In my
book that would disqualify them from being Musical Instruments.

Instead of coming up with yet another cheesy emulation, the noble
thing is to take the basic Mellotron mechanism and improve it.  And
hey, that's exactly what Dave/Markus's Mk VI does.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don@...
http://www.till.com

At 09:22 PM 11/22/2002 +0000, charel196 wrote:
>Gee Don,INSULT? Don't you think that's akin to saying that a tron is
>insulting to real violinists?

I always thought 'trons to be insulting to real MUSICIANS---period. :-)

...kl...M400 #805 - heretic!

In a message dated 11/22/2002 5:50:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, MAinPsych writes:

> In a message dated 11/22/2002 4:22:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, charel196@... writes:
> 
> > This is the point I was going for...as well as something for 
> > those of us who aren't so firmly single mindedly obsessed 
> > that only the REAL thing is a valid instrument.I had an M400 
> > for 25 years.Now I use the E4K with the Pinder CD Rom disc 
> > and I love it.The average listener could not tell the 
> > difference so what's the big deal?

Several thoughts come to mind.  I started out with the Pinder CD before acquiring #908.  Thought it sounded fine live and in the studio until I did an A/B comparison once I had 908.  There was a marked difference, so pronounced that I rerecorded the tron tracks using the real thing.   Live, the CD still causes people to go "oooh" (and is a lot easier to carry!), but the "oohs" AND "aaahs" come out when they see the real thing.  But for the studio, give me a real tron anytime, anywhere.  As far as the average listener, they generally don't know their ass from a hole in the ground anyway.   Just listen to the shit being played on the radio for proof positive of that.  I certainly wouldn't base any decisions (musical or otherwise) on them.  But...to each his own.  One man's ceiling 
is another man's floor!

Frank Samagaio
M400 #908

In a message dated 11/22/02 6:17:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
bdubbe@... writes:


> The average listener could not tell the difference so what's the 
> big deal?                  Regards  Charles 
>  
> Charles!
> That's the whole point
> 

Great line!  

I liken the appeal of the Mellotron to a dog whistle.  

Most people don't hear it, we purists tilt our heads and say "Woof?"

I own a MKII and a state-of-the-art Kurzweil 2600 XS workstation (similar to 
Klaus' MEGATRON setup whack KL mentioned) w/ Pinder CDROM .  If I ever play 
live, it will be with the Kurzweil, for ease of transport, reliability and 
flexibility reasons.  If I ever record, it will be with the MKII , totally 
for sound reasons.  I like the Kurzweil for many things, and it has some of 
the best sounds I have ever heard in a digital keyboard,  but it will never 
be a true Mellotron substitute.  For me, the "best of both worlds" (analog & 
digital) requires me to have two keyboards,  not one.

The feel of the Mellotron keyboard allows for more control of the music than 
the sterile feel of the weighted keyboard in my Kurzweil.  Also, I think that 
the interaction of the keys,  tape mechanism and tapes in a Mellotron create 
a unique sort of a delay type effect in the Mellotron sound that I haven't 
heard recreated in any sampler.  KL has an A/B comparison on his website 
which is an eye (ear) opener.

Having said that, I guess we shouldn't overlook the fact that the famous 
"RIME" CD apparently has as many Mellotron samples on it as it does real 
Mellotron notes.  I'm sure that not many people on this list of purists 
realized that before Martin Smith 'fessed up, in a rare moment  ;-).  So, I 
can argue both points here, I guess.

Ken M.