QTR-Quadtone RIP

This is the continuity of a previous post...

When trying to print with QTR from LR 3 or 4 under 10.6.8 with an Epson 3800, i get different  results depending of what i did in the print dialog. Most of the time, they are flatter and lack punch! I'll like to confirm that i'm using it properly. I even reinstalled the previous driver (6.11) to see it makes a change.

First in LR, do i choose manage by the printer or the QTR_RGB_Paper profile according to the type in use.

Then in the print dialog, i choose Quad3800 as a printer then the curve i want to use in the QTR Quad RIP page. Let say, UC_silver rag as i've been told for Gold Fiber Silk.

Below this tab there is printer function, in which i have a choice of matte or glossy paper which change the way it prints, a double profiling?

Regards!

Hello Mylek,

I am not sure of your exact workflow, but I can give you some thoughts on printing with QTR in LR compared to traditional print drivers.  I am sure that Roy or others can add to the conversation.

First, printing from QTR is different in that QTR does not convert images from their current colorspace to a target colorspace.  A QTR profile simply (although not easy to make for some) assigns ink amounts/limits and other ink for each channel of your target printer.  This is important because Lightroom stores images by default in a very large colorspace that is comparable to prophoto.  If you are printing directly out of lightroom with "printer manages colors" and sending the image information to QTR as is, this could be the cause of your issue.

One way to test this is to convert your image to a smaller colorspace before printing in QTR.  Here is a way to do this:

When printing, select "LR manages colors".  Select Adobe RGB as the profile and use relative as the colorspace conversion.  Then, set your QTR profile in QTR as you have described.  This could help.  What it does is use lightroom to convert your image from prophoto to Adobe RGB before sending the image to QTR.  Adobe RGB is a 2.2 gamma color space with narrower gamut.

The reason you don't have to do this when using your Epson printer driver is that the Epson printer driver will convert the image in lightroom to your output profile as part of the printing process; QTR does not do this as it has a different design intent.

I use the same workflow when printing black & white from lightroom using K7 inks with great results.  It solves the same problem of image conversion before sending the data to QTR...

Hope this helps,

George Pappas




On Mar 23, 2012, at 7:25 PM, mylek wrote:

> This is the continuity of a previous post...
> 
> When trying to print with QTR from LR 3 or 4 under 10.6.8 with an Epson 3800, i get different results depending of what i did in the print dialog. Most of the time, they are flatter and lack punch! I'll like to confirm that i'm using it properly. I even reinstalled the previous driver (6.11) to see it makes a change.
> 
> First in LR, do i choose manage by the printer or the QTR_RGB_Paper profile according to the type in use.
> 
> Then in the print dialog, i choose Quad3800 as a printer then the curve i want to use in the QTR Quad RIP page. Let say, UC_silver rag as i've been told for Gold Fiber Silk.
> 
> Below this tab there is printer function, in which i have a choice of matte or glossy paper which change the way it prints, a double profiling?
> 
> Regards!
> 
> 

George Pappas
george@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again George!
Got my inkset this week! A WN/Sel K7 for gloss.
Been trying to get my head around printing QTR through LR and your answer to Mylek has me stumped. Where do you select "LR manages color"? I see no place to select that in LR, the page set up(epson driver) or QTR.

Keith

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, George Pappas <george@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Mylek,
> 
> I am not sure of your exact workflow, but I can give you some thoughts on printing with QTR in LR compared to traditional print drivers.  I am sure that Roy or others can add to the conversation.

> 
> When printing, select "LR manages colors".  Select Adobe RGB as the profile and use relative as the colorspace conversion.  Then, set your QTR profile in QTR as you have described.  This could help.  What it does is use lightroom to convert your image from prophoto to Adobe RGB before sending the image to QTR.  Adobe RGB is a 2.2 gamma color space with narrower gamut.
> 
> The reason you don't have to do this when using your Epson printer driver is that the Epson printer driver will convert the image in lightroom to your output profile as part of the printing process; QTR does not do this as it has a different design intent.
> 
> I use the same workflow when printing black & white from lightroom using K7 inks with great results.  It solves the same problem of image conversion before sending the data to QTR...
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> George Pappas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 23, 2012, at 7:25 PM, mylek wrote:
> 
> > This is the continuity of a previous post...
> > 
> > When trying to print with QTR from LR 3 or 4 under 10.6.8 with an Epson 3800, i get different results depending of what i did in the print dialog. Most of the time, they are flatter and lack punch! I'll like to confirm that i'm using it properly. I even reinstalled the previous driver (6.11) to see it makes a change.
> > 
> > First in LR, do i choose manage by the printer or the QTR_RGB_Paper profile according to the type in use.
> > 
> > Then in the print dialog, i choose Quad3800 as a printer then the curve i want to use in the QTR Quad RIP page. Let say, UC_silver rag as i've been told for Gold Fiber Silk.
> > 
> > Below this tab there is printer function, in which i have a choice of matte or glossy paper which change the way it prints, a double profiling?
> > 
> > Regards!
> > 
> > 
> 
> George Pappas
> george@...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Keith!

Congratulations on your inkset; I am sure you will make many terrific prints with it.

Sorry for the confusion on the lightroom workflow.  I was speaking conceptually and forgot the actual names of the settings.

In the lightroom print module, your basic printing color management choice is governed in the color management section and profile selection.  Under the profile selection, you can choose "managed by printer" which will send the image straight to the printer or choose an output profile for conversion prior to printing.  You can also choose a conversion method - either relative or perceptual.

For black & white printing using QTR and K7 inks, use the following procedure.

First, remember that the black & white file in Lightroom is really an RGB file with the color information zeroed out with luminance information present.  When you print, select Adobe RGB as the profile in the color management section and relative as the conversion method.  This will take your black & white file out of lightroom and convert it to a black & white RGB file with the 2.2 gamma expected by QTR and Jon's inks.  This works because Adobe RGB is a 2.2 gamma colorspace.  In the print dialog, when you select your QTR printer, simply select all of the QTR settings as you would when printing from photoshop, including the QTR profile you got from Dana.

This procedure is documented somewhere on Jon's blog or in the tech support section, I can't remember where at the moment.  I use and it works very well. 

Give it a shot, and send a message if you have any issues...

Best,
George



On Mar 24, 2012, at 9:12 PM, Keith wrote:

> Hi again George!
> Got my inkset this week! A WN/Sel K7 for gloss.
> Been trying to get my head around printing QTR through LR and your answer to Mylek has me stumped. Where do you select "LR manages color"? I see no place to select that in LR, the page set up(epson driver) or QTR.
> 
> Keith
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, George Pappas <george@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Mylek,
> > 
> > I am not sure of your exact workflow, but I can give you some thoughts on printing with QTR in LR compared to traditional print drivers. I am sure that Roy or others can add to the conversation.
> 
> > 
> > When printing, select "LR manages colors". Select Adobe RGB as the profile and use relative as the colorspace conversion. Then, set your QTR profile in QTR as you have described. This could help. What it does is use lightroom to convert your image from prophoto to Adobe RGB before sending the image to QTR. Adobe RGB is a 2.2 gamma color space with narrower gamut.
> > 
> > The reason you don't have to do this when using your Epson printer driver is that the Epson printer driver will convert the image in lightroom to your output profile as part of the printing process; QTR does not do this as it has a different design intent.
> > 
> > I use the same workflow when printing black & white from lightroom using K7 inks with great results. It solves the same problem of image conversion before sending the data to QTR...
> > 
> > Hope this helps,
> > 
> > George Pappas
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mar 23, 2012, at 7:25 PM, mylek wrote:
> > 
> > > This is the continuity of a previous post...
> > > 
> > > When trying to print with QTR from LR 3 or 4 under 10.6.8 with an Epson 3800, i get different results depending of what i did in the print dialog. Most of the time, they are flatter and lack punch! I'll like to confirm that i'm using it properly. I even reinstalled the previous driver (6.11) to see it makes a change.
> > > 
> > > First in LR, do i choose manage by the printer or the QTR_RGB_Paper profile according to the type in use.
> > > 
> > > Then in the print dialog, i choose Quad3800 as a printer then the curve i want to use in the QTR Quad RIP page. Let say, UC_silver rag as i've been told for Gold Fiber Silk.
> > > 
> > > Below this tab there is printer function, in which i have a choice of matte or glossy paper which change the way it prints, a double profiling?
> > > 
> > > Regards!
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > George Pappas
> > george@...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 

George Pappas
george@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi George,
If I read between the lines, one doesnt really print out of LR as I see no way to access QTR through LR. As I read your workflow, one has to EXPORT the image file out of LR first or am I reading that wrong. I don't have a profile from Dana yet. Can't get that until had the ink first!  

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, George Pappas <george@...> wrote:

> In the lightroom print module,Under the profile selection, you can choose "managed by printer" which will send the image straight to the printer or choose an output profile for conversion prior to printing.  You can also choose a conversion method - either relative or perceptual.
> 
> For black & white printing using QTR and K7 inks, use the following procedure.
> 
> First, remember that the black & white file in Lightroom is really an RGB file with the color information zeroed out with luminance information present.  When you print, select Adobe RGB as the profile in the color management section and relative as the conversion method.  This will take your black & white file out of lightroom and convert it to a black & white RGB file with the 2.2 gamma expected by QTR and Jon's inks.  This works because Adobe RGB is a 2.2 gamma colorspace.  In the print dialog, when you select your QTR printer, simply select all of the QTR settings as you would when printing from photoshop, including the QTR profile you got from Dana.
> 
> This procedure is documented somewhere on Jon's blog or in the tech support section, I can't remember where at the moment.  I use and it works very well. 
> 
> Give it a shot, and send a message if you have any issues...
> 
> Best,
> George

Printing with QTR is very different between Mac and Windows environments 
so you need to be sure you're following advice for the platform you are 
using

On 25/03/2012 17:09, Keith wrote:
>
> Hi George,
> If I read between the lines, one doesnt really print out of LR as I 
> see no way to access QTR through LR. As I read your workflow, one has 
> to EXPORT the image file out of LR first or am I reading that wrong. I 
> don't have a profile from Dana yet. Can't get that until had the ink 
> first!
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>, George Pappas <george@...> wrote:
> > In the lightroom print module,Under the profile selection, you can 
> choose "managed by printer" which will send the image straight to the 
> printer or choose an output profile for conversion prior to printing. 
> You can also choose a conversion method - either relative or perceptual.
> >
> > For black & white printing using QTR and K7 inks, use the following 
> procedure.
> >
> > First, remember that the black & white file in Lightroom is really 
> an RGB file with the color information zeroed out with luminance 
> information present. When you print, select Adobe RGB as the profile 
> in the color management section and relative as the conversion method. 
> This will take your black & white file out of lightroom and convert it 
> to a black & white RGB file with the 2.2 gamma expected by QTR and 
> Jon's inks. This works because Adobe RGB is a 2.2 gamma colorspace. In 
> the print dialog, when you select your QTR printer, simply select all 
> of the QTR settings as you would when printing from photoshop, 
> including the QTR profile you got from Dana.
> >
> > This procedure is documented somewhere on Jon's blog or in the tech 
> support section, I can't remember where at the moment. I use and it 
> works very well.
> >
> > Give it a shot, and send a message if you have any issues...
> >
> > Best,
> > George
>
> 

-- 
mike finley photography
http://www.mikefinley.co.uk
http://words.mikefinley.co.uk
http://www.roguegenegallery.com/Mike_Finley-gallery.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For the record I'm running W7-64. The question is printing QTR through LR. I don't see how it can happen as there is no way to access the QTR driver within the LR print mod.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Mike Finley <mike.finley@...> wrote:

>
> Printing with QTR is very different between Mac and Windows environments 
> so you need to be sure you're following advice for the platform you are 
> using
> 
> On 25/03/2012 17:09, Keith wrote:
> >
> > Hi George,
> > If I read between the lines, one doesnt really print out of LR as I 
> > see no way to access QTR through LR. As I read your workflow, one has 
> > to EXPORT the image file out of LR first or am I reading that wrong. I 
> > don't have a profile from Dana yet. Can't get that until had the ink 
> > first!

Correct, because QTR is not visible as a printer on Windows systems, as 
it doesn't use the Windows printing subsystem, but can only print using 
qtrgui.

I don't use Lightroom as my final 'print' program, but if I did I'd use 
the lightroom print subsystem, and in the print job section probably 
select (these are in the Lightroom 4 print module - I  assume LR3 is 
similar):

print to jpeg file
file resolution 360 dpi (less resampling for qtr or the printer to do ...)
print sharpening standard (try other settings too and see which you prefer)
jpeg quality 100
profile QTR_RGB_Matte_Paper (or ...Photo... as appropriate)
intent Perceptual

you might want to change these, but should be reasonable starting point

(There is an option in QTRgui to set a watched folder that it will 
monitor and automatically print files that appear into it, using the 
same QTR setting as the previous file - I only use this if I'm printing 
a batch at once, otherwise I'd probably end up creating several prints 
with the wrong QTRgui setting before I noticed ;) )

hope that helps!

On 25/03/2012 17:42, Keith wrote:
>
> For the record I'm running W7-64. The question is printing QTR through 
> LR. I don't see how it can happen as there is no way to access the QTR 
> driver within the LR print mod.
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>, Mike Finley <mike.finley@...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Printing with QTR is very different between Mac and Windows 
> environments
> > so you need to be sure you're following advice for the platform you are
> > using
> >
> > On 25/03/2012 17:09, Keith wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi George,
> > > If I read between the lines, one doesnt really print out of LR as I
> > > see no way to access QTR through LR. As I read your workflow, one has
> > > to EXPORT the image file out of LR first or am I reading that 
> wrong. I
> > > don't have a profile from Dana yet. Can't get that until had the ink
> > > first!
>
> 

-- 
mike finley photography
http://www.mikefinley.co.uk
http://words.mikefinley.co.uk
http://www.roguegenegallery.com/Mike_Finley-gallery.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Mike
Very frustrating given that(if I remember) QTR was originally set up for windows. I found a post by Tyler Boley but it seems to be(since I didn't see it mentioned)Mac-centric. The part that stumped me was

"Hitting print will then take you into your normal QTR dialogue box assuming that has been selected in print settings."

So in a windows envionment, this just isn't possible and printing QTR through LR doesn't exist and in order to do so, one HAS to export the file in order to use the QTR driver. Or am I wrong?


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Mike Finley <mike.finley@...> wrote:

>
> Correct, because QTR is not visible as a printer on Windows systems, as 
> it doesn't use the Windows printing subsystem, but can only print using 
> qtrgui.
> 
> I don't use Lightroom as my final 'print' program, but if I did I'd use 
> the lightroom print subsystem, and in the print job section probably 
> select (these are in the Lightroom 4 print module - I  assume LR3 is 
> similar):
> 
> print to jpeg file
> file resolution 360 dpi (less resampling for qtr or the printer to do ...)
> print sharpening standard (try other settings too and see which you prefer)
> jpeg quality 100
> profile QTR_RGB_Matte_Paper (or ...Photo... as appropriate)
> intent Perceptual
> 
> you might want to change these, but should be reasonable starting point
>

No, QTR was originally written for the Mac, and uses the gutenprint 
print driver (open source, part of linux). It was first ported back to 
linux, allowing PC users to dual boot to use it (I used it this way 
originally) and then later qtrgui was written to give a native PC 
Windows printing program.

Yes, the only printing route on the PC (that I'm aware of) for any 
graphics program is to output to file and then use qtrgui.

I'm not 100% certain that jpg files are supported by qtrgui - I actually 
use Qimage to generate final print files (as TIFFs), largely for 
historical reasons.

On 25/03/2012 18:30, Keith wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike
> Very frustrating given that(if I remember) QTR was originally set up 
> for windows. I found a post by Tyler Boley but it seems to be(since I 
> didn't see it mentioned)Mac-centric. The part that stumped me was
>
> "Hitting print will then take you into your normal QTR dialogue box 
> assuming that has been selected in print settings."
>
> So in a windows envionment, this just isn't possible and printing QTR 
> through LR doesn't exist and in order to do so, one HAS to export the 
> file in order to use the QTR driver. Or am I wrong?
>

-- 
mike finley photography
http://www.mikefinley.co.uk
http://words.mikefinley.co.uk
http://www.roguegenegallery.com/Mike_Finley-gallery.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks George!

I'll try it with Adobe 98 then the QTR setting in the printerdialog as i was using.
So what is the use for the QTR_RGB_Photo or matte paper profile in LR?

On 03/25/2012 07:53 PM, Mike Finley wrote:
> No, QTR was originally written for the Mac, and uses the gutenprint
> print driver (open source, part of linux). It was first ported back to
> linux, allowing PC users to dual boot to use it (I used it this way
> originally) and then later qtrgui was written to give a native PC
> Windows printing program.
>
> Yes, the only printing route on the PC (that I'm aware of) for any
> graphics program is to output to file and then use qtrgui.
>
> I'm not 100% certain that jpg files are supported by qtrgui - I actually
> use Qimage to generate final print files (as TIFFs), largely for
> historical reasons.
>

It would still be nice if QTR could become a normal Windows driver, with 
all the nice features still available but allowing a direct print path 
from Qimage through QTR. My pet QTR topic.

There was a hot folder method for QTRGUI that I used in the past.

JPEG is supported now.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

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