QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hello

(this is my first post to this group, so I apologize in advance if this is
a FAQ)

I am trying to profile my Epson R265 (R260 in the US) using a 21 grey wedge
and a SpyderPrint 3 spectrometer. I have installed the Ultratone 3D inks
(using the matte black ink). So far I have created profiles for a few matte
papers (Hahenmühle Photo Rag, Ilford Heavyweight Matt Paper and Ilford
Galerie Smooth Fine Art Paper) with some success.

I now would like to profile the the Ilford Galerie Gold Silk (a baryta
paper, which I rather like), but when doing so I get LAB values which are
inverted at the black end (See results as the bottom). When I inspect the
black end of the wedge, I have the impression, that the spectrometer is
right and that  the last two patches are not as black as the 85%  patch. I
am printing this using a "Epson  Semiglossy Paper" setting in the printer
(Using a Glossy paper setting did not change anything).

So what are my options? Should I switch to the photo black ink for this
paper? (If yes, is it sufficient to run a cleaning cycle with the exchanged
ink cartdridge to get a clean setup?) - This would have the disadvantage
that the autoreset in the chips would kick in every time I want to switch
papers, which I would like to avoid.

Assuming, that the printer driver is saturating the paper on the black end,
it probably would make sense to limit the ink applied, but I could not see
a way to limit the amount of ink used (unless I turn on colour management,
which defeats the purpose of profiling).

For the moment I would like to stick to using ICC profiles (a workflow I
understand reasonably well) and not go the full route to QTR. Is this
possible?

Are there any other options?

Thanks in advance,

Andrew


BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT
SampleID GRAY LAB_L LAB_A LAB_B
END_DATA_FORMAT
NUMBER_OF_SETS 21
BEGIN_DATA
1 0 97.79 1.48 -0.92
2 5 93.62 0.94 -0.53
3 10 89.39 1.21 0.01
4 15 84.60 1.52 0.52
5 20 80.82 1.21 1.17
6 25 77.07 1.45 1.75
7 30 72.85 1.51 2.10
8 35 68.91 1.73 1.84
9 40 65.10 1.34 2.37
10 45 61.74 1.72 1.79
11 50 57.21 0.76 2.41
12 55 52.99 0.76 2.05
13 60 48.98 1.22 1.23
14 65 45.04 0.87 1.74
15 70 40.39 0.21 1.89
16 75 34.18 1.37 0.23
17 80 25.78 0.18 2.60
18 85 12.72 -0.05 2.61
19 90 4.65 -2.38 4.97
20 95 8.82 -0.72 2.17
21 100 16.48 -2.47 1.10
END_DATA


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Andrew Maier <andrew@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I am trying to profile my Epson R265 (R260 in the US) using a 21 grey wedge
> and a SpyderPrint 3 spectrometer. I have installed the Ultratone 3D inks
> (using the matte black ink).
>

Note that the UT-3D inkset generally uses Eboni in the K position, but the
M position is a neutralized PK for glossy paper.

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT-3D_Readme.pdf for a description of
the inkset.  Profiles are available for downloading.  Although I don't have
one for Ilford Galerie Gold Silk, take a look at the curves for similar
papers.  Starting with one of those curves would make sense.

So far I have created profiles for a few matte
> papers (Hahenmühle Photo Rag, Ilford Heavyweight Matt Paper and Ilford
> Galerie Smooth Fine Art Paper) with some success.
>

The trick for glossy papers is to turn off the Eboni and use the M-position
ink to generate the 100% black.



>
> I now would like to profile the the Ilford Galerie Gold Silk (a baryta
> paper, which I rather like), but when doing so I get LAB values which are
> inverted at the black end (See results as the bottom)....
>
I suspect you are not turning off the Eboni.  The driver injects Eboni MK
as the 3 color curves approach the black point.  You stop that by having
one of the inks head back down, ultimately to 0 at the 100% black input
point.  See the curves I've made for the inkset and glossy papers.  (Let me
know if there is a problem with the pre-zip file method I used for
downloading.)

If you are turning the Eboni off, then the other options are that the ink
load may be too high for that paper.  Which paper type is specified in the
driver alters the ink limit, and you can also lower the black ink load by
having the Green curve (Magenta ink control) stop at 90%.  That is, when
the input is 100%, have the Green curve only at 90%.  Be sure the blue
(and/or red) curve(s) are totaly "off" by that point.  You don't want the
driver to put any Eboni MK into the mix.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Paul,

thank you for your answer. I still have some questions:


On Jun 5, 2012, at 17:54 , Paul Roark wrote:


> 
> See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT-3D_Readme.pdf for a description of
> the inkset. Profiles are available for downloading. Although I don't have
> one for Ilford Galerie Gold Silk, take a look at the curves for similar
> papers. Starting with one of those curves would make sense.
> 

Thanks. I had already read this, but I reread it again to make sure I had not missed anything.




> >
> > I now would like to profile the the Ilford Galerie Gold Silk (a baryta
> > paper, which I rather like), but when doing so I get LAB values which are
> > inverted at the black end (See results as the bottom)....
> >
> I suspect you are not turning off the Eboni. The driver injects Eboni MK
> as the 3 color curves approach the black point. You stop that by having
> one of the inks head back down, ultimately to 0 at the 100% black input
> point. See the curves I've made for the inkset and glossy papers. (Let me
> know if there is a problem with the pre-zip file method I used for
> downloading.)
> 
> If you are turning the Eboni off, then the other options are that the ink
> load may be too high for that paper. Which paper type is specified in the
> driver alters the ink limit, and you can also lower the black ink load by
> having the Green curve (Magenta ink control) stop at 90%. That is, when
> the input is 100%, have the Green curve only at 90%. Be sure the blue
> (and/or red) curve(s) are totaly "off" by that point. You don't want the
> driver to put any Eboni MK into the mix.
> 
> 
How do I do this? I am using a Mac (10.7) with Photoshop CS5. When printing the grey scale wedge, I set the Photoshop print dialog to printer manages colour and then disable colour management in the printer driver printing dialog. When I do this I do not have any access to the sliders to control the amount of ink. So I cannot turn off the Eboni Ink. I assume I am missing something fundamental here.


Some more observations, I just realized  that the black 100% square still smudges even after having dried for more than 24 hours. I have now replaced the MK ink cartridge with the PK cartridge and have printed a new strip. It is difficult to tell by eye if there is any improvement, although I have the impression that it looks slightly better. I will let the print dry for 24 hours and make a measurement tomorrow.


Thanks,

Andrew


 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrew Maier <andrew@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ...
> > See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT-3D_Readme.pdf for a description
> of
> > the inkset. Profiles are available for downloading. Although I don't have
> > one for Ilford Galerie Gold Silk, take a look at the curves for similar
> > papers. Starting with one of those curves would make sense.
> >
>
> ...
> > > I now would like to profile the the Ilford Galerie Gold Silk (a baryta
> > > paper, which I rather like), but when doing so I get LAB values which
> are
> > > inverted at the black end (See results as the bottom)....
> > >
> > I suspect you are not turning off the Eboni. The driver injects Eboni MK
> > as the 3 color curves approach the black point. You stop that by having
> > one of the inks head back down, ultimately to 0 at the 100% black input
> > point. See the curves I've made for the inkset and glossy papers. (Let me
> > know if there is a problem with the pre-zip file method I used for
> > downloading.)
> >
> > If you are turning the Eboni off, then the other options are that the ink
> > load may be too high for that paper. Which paper type is specified in the
> > driver alters the ink limit, and you can also lower the black ink load by
> > having the Green curve (Magenta ink control) stop at 90%. That is, when
> > the input is 100%, have the Green curve only at 90%. Be sure the blue
> > (and/or red) curve(s) are totaly "off" by that point. You don't want the
> > driver to put any Eboni MK into the mix.
> >
> >
>



> How do I do this? I am using a Mac (10.7) with Photoshop CS5.
>


I don't know Mac, but the use of curves in CS5 is probably the same on both
platforms.



> When printing the grey scale wedge, I set the Photoshop print dialog to
> printer manages colour and then disable colour management in the printer
> driver printing dialog. When I do this I do not have any access to the
> sliders to control the amount of ink. So I cannot turn off the Eboni Ink. I
> assume I am missing something fundamental here.
>


The Epson drive cannot turn off the Eboni.  The PS curves can.

Ultimately, you want to embed PS curves in an ICC using QTR's Create
ICC-RGB.  So, you want PS to manage color, not the printer.  How that is
done on a Mac, I'm not sure.  On Windows I do this in PS.  The "Print" box
has option:  PS controls color v. Printer controls color.  In the latest PS
and OSs, I can't combine ICCs with "Printer controls color."

So, be sure you are in a mode where you can pull up an ICC.

Once in that mode, in PS, with the image in Adobe RGB (1998) work space,
apply a straight-line curve that has the Green curve going from 0 to 100.
 The other curves are pulled flat.  Print a 21-step with the resulting
Green 21-step image.  Additionally, you ought to try a 21-step with the
Green and Red curves both going from 0 to 100.  Here, the Blue curve is
"off" -- flat at 0.   This 21-step image will look blue on the monitor.

With both of the prints that result from the steps above, measure the lab L
or density of the steps.  Where is the dmax reached?

In both of these cases, by having on channel of the RGB image off at
wherever the dmax is reached, you've turned off the Eboni.  The dmax will
be generated by the glossy inks.  Where they reach their dmax will become
the setting for the end of the curve that controls the colors and other
aspects of the final ICC.

You can see from the glossy curves in the 3D profiles zip how I've pulled
the Blue curve down to 0 to turn off the Eboni.  The trick is to do it in
the deep shadows so the reduced Lab A is not seen.  It will actually result
in a deeper looking black.



> Some more observations, I just realized that the black 100% square still
> smudges even after having dried for more than 24 hours.
>

If there is much Eboni in the mix, it'll never dry right.  Eboni rubs off
glossy paper.


I have now replaced the MK ink cartridge with the PK cartridge and have
> printed a new strip.
>

That should be fine, but, of course, it eliminates the ability to print a
good matte paper print.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]