QTR-Quadtone RIP

Getting my feet wet with the above and icc profile creation. I use
X-rite DTP-22 to get my Lab values.

In order to tests the software tools I just dropped the
MeasureFile.csv from the files section onto QTR-Linearyze-data. Since
its Lab fields are populated by sample data (I also entered some non
zero values for a and b) I expected to see the window with the Lab
values and the rudimentary graph. 
The window generated by Linearyze-data is empty (no numerical values
and  L's a's and b's are aligned vertically).
Anything else needs to be edited in this file ?

When I drop the same file on Create-ICC a profile gets created but I
doubt it's validity because of the above

TIA for any pointers,

Roman

Roman

You're quite right. The file is not working. I will have to figure out why.
I'll repost when I do.

Tom Moore

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of rm9789
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:20 PM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] MasureFile and Linearyze-data
> 
> Getting my feet wet with the above and icc profile creation. I use
> X-rite DTP-22 to get my Lab values.
> 
> In order to tests the software tools I just dropped the
> MeasureFile.csv from the files section onto QTR-Linearyze-data. Since
> its Lab fields are populated by sample data (I also entered some non
> zero values for a and b) I expected to see the window with the Lab
> values and the rudimentary graph.
> The window generated by Linearyze-data is empty (no numerical values
> and  L's a's and b's are aligned vertically).
> Anything else needs to be edited in this file ?
> 
> When I drop the same file on Create-ICC a profile gets created but I
> doubt it's validity because of the above
> 
> TIA for any pointers,
> 
> Roman

Roman

I think I'll retract my immediate response to your email. At that point I
was having some difficulty seeing any impact of using the profile I had
created with Roy's QTR-Create-ICC and the measure file I had produced. I
still am, it may be too subtle for my eyes or my monitor may be out of
calibration.

However, I downloaded an ICC inspection utility from here:
	http://www.color.org/membersonly/profileinspector.html

and looked at the profile. It makes sense to me.

You must realize that there will only be L* values used in the MeasureFile.
The other values are not used (yet) by Roy's utility. The profile only
permits previewing the tonal quality of the image to be printed, not the
hue.

Anyway, I think the file works as advertised.

Tom Moore



> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Tom Moore
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:26 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [QuadtoneRIP] MasureFile and Linearyze-data
> 
> Roman
> 
> You're quite right. The file is not working. I will have to figure out
> why.
> I'll repost when I do.
> 
> Tom Moore
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of rm9789
> > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:20 PM


...snip...

Tom

You are one step ahead of me ... I haven'had a chance to evaluate the
correctness of the ICC profile yet.
My concern was with how MasureFile interact with QTR-Linearize-Data.

My assumption was that when one drops it on QTR-Lizearize-Data,
one should get a window with Lab values on the left and a graph
constructed of letters L, a and b on the right.

After I dropped your sample MeasureFile the generated window had no
data nor a graph.

As for the ICC profile, thanks for the link. I will follow this path
when trying to clear up the other issue.

Best regards,

Roman

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@r...>
wrote:
> Roman
> 
> I think I'll retract my immediate response to your email. At that
point I
> was having some difficulty seeing any impact of using the profile I
had
> created with Roy's QTR-Create-ICC and the measure file I had
produced. I
> still am, it may be too subtle for my eyes or my monitor may be out
of
> calibration.
> 
> However, I downloaded an ICC inspection utility from here:
> 	http://www.color.org/membersonly/profileinspector.html
> 
> and looked at the profile. It makes sense to me.
> 
> You must realize that there will only be L* values used in the
MeasureFile.
> The other values are not used (yet) by Roy's utility. The profile
only
> permits previewing the tonal quality of the image to be printed,
not the
> hue.
> 
> Anyway, I think the file works as advertised.
> 
> Tom Moore
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of Tom Moore
> > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:26 AM
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [QuadtoneRIP] MasureFile and Linearyze-data
> > 
> > Roman
> > 
> > You're quite right. The file is not working. I will have to
figure out
> > why.
> > I'll repost when I do.
> > 
> > Tom Moore
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com]

> > On
> > > Behalf Of rm9789
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:20 PM
> 
> 
> ...snip...

Tom

You are one step ahead of me ... I haven'had a chance to evaluate the
correctness of the ICC profile yet.
My concern was with how MasureFile interact with QTR-Linearize-Data.

My assumption was that when one drops it on QTR-Lizearize-Data,
one should get a window with Lab values on the left and a graph
constructed of letters L, a and b on the right.

After I dropped your sample MeasureFile the generated window had no
data nor a graph.

As for the ICC profile, thanks for the link. I will follow this path
when trying to clear up the other issue.

Best regards,

Roman

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@r...>
wrote:
> Roman
> 
> I think I'll retract my immediate response to your email. At that
point I
> was having some difficulty seeing any impact of using the profile I
had
> created with Roy's QTR-Create-ICC and the measure file I had
produced. I
> still am, it may be too subtle for my eyes or my monitor may be out
of
> calibration.
> 
> However, I downloaded an ICC inspection utility from here:
> 	http://www.color.org/membersonly/profileinspector.html
> 
> and looked at the profile. It makes sense to me.
> 
> You must realize that there will only be L* values used in the
MeasureFile.
> The other values are not used (yet) by Roy's utility. The profile
only
> permits previewing the tonal quality of the image to be printed,
not the
> hue.
> 
> Anyway, I think the file works as advertised.
> 
> Tom Moore
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of Tom Moore
> > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:26 AM
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [QuadtoneRIP] MasureFile and Linearyze-data
> > 
> > Roman
> > 
> > You're quite right. The file is not working. I will have to
figure out
> > why.
> > I'll repost when I do.
> > 
> > Tom Moore
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com]

> > On
> > > Behalf Of rm9789
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:20 PM
> 
> 
> ...snip...

See below

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of rm9789
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:24 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: MasureFile and Linearyze-data
> 
> Tom
> 
> You are one step ahead of me ... I haven'had a chance to evaluate the
> correctness of the ICC profile yet.
> My concern was with how MasureFile interact with QTR-Linearize-Data.
> 
> My assumption was that when one drops it on QTR-Lizearize-Data,
> one should get a window with Lab values on the left and a graph
> constructed of letters L, a and b on the right.
> 

Nope. It doesn't do that. It just quietly creates the ICC profile and leaves
it in the folder where the measure file resides.


> After I dropped your sample MeasureFile the generated window had no
> data nor a graph.
> 

...

An update: I tried to look at the ICC profile created by
QTR-create-icc with ICC inspector  and I'm getting 'Error reading ICC
profile' message.

Obviously I'm doing something wrong editing MeasureFile. I tried both
editing the file with WordPad and exporting sheet1 from
curveeval-1.xls (in comma delimited format).

Is entering the Lab data the only thing which needs to be done to this
file ?

Thanks again,

Roman


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "rm9789" <rm9789@y...> wrote:
> Tom
> 
> You are one step ahead of me ... I haven'had a chance to evaluate
the
> correctness of the ICC profile yet.
> My concern was with how MasureFile interact with QTR-Linearize-Data.
> 
> My assumption was that when one drops it on QTR-Lizearize-Data,
> one should get a window with Lab values on the left and a graph
> constructed of letters L, a and b on the right.
> 
> After I dropped your sample MeasureFile the generated window had no
> data nor a graph.
> 
> As for the ICC profile, thanks for the link. I will follow this path
> when trying to clear up the other issue.
> 
> Best regards,

Roman
>

Roman

Email me your measure file.

Tom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of rm9789
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:24 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: MasureFile and Linearyze-data
> 
> An update: I tried to look at the ICC profile created by
> QTR-create-icc with ICC inspector  and I'm getting 'Error reading ICC
> profile' message.
> 
> Obviously I'm doing something wrong editing MeasureFile. I tried both
> editing the file with WordPad and exporting sheet1 from
> curveeval-1.xls (in comma delimited format).
> 
> Is entering the Lab data the only thing which needs to be done to this
> file ?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Roman
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "rm9789" <rm9789@y...> wrote:
> > Tom
> >
> > You are one step ahead of me ... I haven'had a chance to evaluate
> the
> > correctness of the ICC profile yet.
> > My concern was with how MasureFile interact with QTR-Linearize-Data.
> >
> > My assumption was that when one drops it on QTR-Lizearize-Data,
> > one should get a window with Lab values on the left and a graph
> > constructed of letters L, a and b on the right.
> >
> > After I dropped your sample MeasureFile the generated window had no
> > data nor a graph.
> >
> > As for the ICC profile, thanks for the link. I will follow this path
> > when trying to clear up the other issue.
> >
> > Best regards,
> 
> Roman
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

Sorry Tom, I went by the third page of the Eye-One-ReadMe.pdf which
instructs to 'drag the saved grayscale scan file onto
QTR-Linearize--Data'.

Isn't MeasureFile the one which otherwise would be created by Eye-One ?
Also, I thought that the step in your commentr below involves
QTR-Create-ICC.

I really appreciate your help (and your patience :),

Roman



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@r...> wrote:

> > My assumption was that when one drops it on QTR-Lizearize-Data,
> > one should get a window with Lab values on the left and a graph
> > constructed of letters L, a and b on the right.
> > 
> 
> Nope. It doesn't do that. It just quietly creates the ICC profile
and leaves
> it in the folder where the measure file resides.
>

I use a PC and have been thinking in those terms. Sorry.

On the PC the measure file is only used by QTR-Create-ICC to create an ICC
profile. We don't use QTR-linearize-data directly. 

I tried using QTR-linearize-data with my example measure file and, yes, I
get a window with a text file with a graph of (I presume) the linearized
curve, and the Linearize= values that Mac users would copy into their
profile definition.

The a and b values are not important, only the L is significant. I have a
densitometer anyway and can't create anything but L (density actually)
values. That's why the columns for a and b are 0 in the example measure
file.

A final note: last night I updated the files section of the QuadToneRIP mail
list. I removed the MeasureFile.csv and replaced it with MeasureFile.txt.
The .csv was a comma separated value file whereas the .txt is a tab
delimited file. I made the change because the .txt file would be easier to
edit. It could be that qtr-linearize-data doesn't like the .csv file. You
could try the .txt file. It worked for me.

You 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of rm9789
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:42 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: MasureFile and Linearyze-data
> 
> Sorry Tom, I went by the third page of the Eye-One-ReadMe.pdf which
> instructs to 'drag the saved grayscale scan file onto
> QTR-Linearize--Data'.
> 
> Isn't MeasureFile the one which otherwise would be created by Eye-One ?
> Also, I thought that the step in your commentr below involves
> QTR-Create-ICC.
> 
> I really appreciate your help (and your patience :),
> 
> Roman
> 
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@r...> wrote:
> 
> > > My assumption was that when one drops it on QTR-Lizearize-Data,
> > > one should get a window with Lab values on the left and a graph
> > > constructed of letters L, a and b on the right.
> > >
> >
> > Nope. It doesn't do that. It just quietly creates the ICC profile
> and leaves
> > it in the folder where the measure file resides.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

That was it, Tom !

A tab delimited file works like a charm for both Create-ICC and
Linearyze-Data.

Good work. Thanks for your help.

Now on the edge of my seat, anticipating tint profiling feature... <g>

Roman


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@r...>
wrote:

> 
> A final note: last night I updated the files section of the
QuadToneRIP mail
> list. I removed the MeasureFile.csv and replaced it with
MeasureFile.txt.
> The .csv was a comma separated value file whereas the .txt is a tab
> delimited file. I made the change because the .txt file would be
easier to
> edit. It could be that qtr-linearize-data doesn't like the .csv
file. You
> could try the .txt file. It worked for me.
>

Now when my basic problems with generating the icc profiles are over
I'm experiencing something similiar to what you've mentioned in your
response.
My monitor is calibrated and I don't see any impact of applying the
profile (incidentally it's quite similiar to yours).

What's worse my print still doesn't match the screen, it's way too
dark (I convert to my newly created profile before saving the tiff and
dropping it in QTR).

I can get an acceptable print after moving the gamma slider -10 or so,
but this defies the point of having color managed workflow.

BTW, I also have IP6 so I can use it's output of 21step wedges and the
actual image.

Anybody else having these difficulties ?

I still realize that the problem is with holes in my knowledge <g>.

TIA,

Roman
 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@r...>
wrote:
> Roman
> 
> I think I'll retract my immediate response to your email. At that
point I
> was having some difficulty seeing any impact of using the profile I
had
> created with Roy's QTR-Create-ICC and the measure file I had
produced. I
> still am, it may be too subtle for my eyes or my monitor may be out
of
> calibration.