QTR-Quadtone RIP

I've recently been told that QTR can directly linearize profiles for digital negatives by entering 21-step density values read from a print made from the digital negative, so that the density values start out high and decrease (e.g., 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 ... 0.05).  Sure enough, when I enter these values in the linearization tab, QTRgui Curve Creation generates new Ink Curves for the profile, which seem to be modified from the previous Ink Curves generated simply with the ink description.

My question is how do I know if my installed QTR has the newest version of this digital negative linearization feature?  A posting by Kentaro Kumagi in June 2012 (msg. 10358 Re: "starter profiles" for digital negatives) provides a link to a "fixed patch for Win QTR ... given by Roy [Harrington]" which provides this capability.  I never installed such a patch,a but the fact that my QTR linearization tab will accept density values running from high to low suggests I somehow acquired the capability (I think).  I believe I have QTR 2.7.2, downloaded in the past year, but determining just what I have is hard since "QTR 2.7.2" apparently still uses the 2.7.0.0 QTRgui Windows interface.  My QTR "About" panel and hard drive info indicate I have the following modules:
QTRgui 2.7.0.0 file date 3/27/2010 size 10,574,404
QuadToPrinter 2.7.2.0 file date 8/14/2011 size 827,392
QuadProfile 2.7.2.0 file date 9/8/2011 size 917,570

Sorry to pose such a tedious question, but using the wrong linearization feature or using it in the wrong way would make my already somewhat time-consuming and expensive efforts to create digital negative profiles for PtPd printing even so.  Thanks.

Hi bill_iverson

Linearization Fixed patch (for Windows QTR)

http://www.digital-negatives.jp/download.html
/
http://www.digital-negatives.jp/download/qdensity.zip

Please copy qdensity.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP\bin
or
C:\Program Files\QuadToneRIP\bin


Please the density values start out low and increase.
I tried Lab(L*) values (26.3, 27.6, 31.2, 35.9.....) (EyeOne, Colormunki, etc).
But I have not tried the Optical density(1.18, 1.24, 1.30, ....)

*For paper(positive print) the density values start out high and decrease
*For Altanative(Negative print) the density values start out low and increase


Please try it!


Kentaro Kumagai
http://www.digital-negatives.jp/



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington" <bill.iverson@...> wrote:

>
> I've recently been told that QTR can directly linearize profiles for digital negatives by entering 21-step density values read from a print made from the digital negative, so that the density values start out high and decrease (e.g., 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 ... 0.05).  Sure enough, when I enter these values in the linearization tab, QTRgui Curve Creation generates new Ink Curves for the profile, which seem to be modified from the previous Ink Curves generated simply with the ink description.
> 
> My question is how do I know if my installed QTR has the newest version of this digital negative linearization feature?  A posting by Kentaro Kumagi in June 2012 (msg. 10358 Re: "starter profiles" for digital negatives) provides a link to a "fixed patch for Win QTR ... given by Roy [Harrington]" which provides this capability.  I never installed such a patch,a but the fact that my QTR linearization tab will accept density values running from high to low suggests I somehow acquired the capability (I think).  I believe I have QTR 2.7.2, downloaded in the past year, but determining just what I have is hard since "QTR 2.7.2" apparently still uses the 2.7.0.0 QTRgui Windows interface.  My QTR "About" panel and hard drive info indicate I have the following modules:
> QTRgui 2.7.0.0 file date 3/27/2010 size 10,574,404
> QuadToPrinter 2.7.2.0 file date 8/14/2011 size 827,392
> QuadProfile 2.7.2.0 file date 9/8/2011 size 917,570
> 
> Sorry to pose such a tedious question, but using the wrong linearization feature or using it in the wrong way would make my already somewhat time-consuming and expensive efforts to create digital negative profiles for PtPd printing even so.  Thanks.
>

Thank you very much Kentaro.  I have downloaded your newer qdensity.exe
file and will try it.

The increasing L* values you have tried go from darker to lighter.  So
it would seem the density values should also go from darker to lighter. 
Such as 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 . . . 0.05.  Not 0.05, 0.12, 0.18 . . . 1.30. 
Also, if I enter density values in the same way I do for making a QTR
profile to print a positive print (from lighter to darker), how would
the program module know that I want to linearize a digital negative
profile and not a profile for printing positive prints.

Do you agree?


  Bill Iverson

bill@... <mailto:bill@...>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "kumagaikentaro"  wrote:
>
> Hi bill_iverson
>
> Linearization Fixed patch (for Windows QTR)
>
> http://www.digital-negatives.jp/download.html
> /
> http://www.digital-negatives.jp/download/qdensity.zip
>
> Please copy qdensity.exe
> C:\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP\bin
> or
> C:\Program Files\QuadToneRIP\bin
>
>
> Please the density values start out low and increase.
> I tried Lab(L*) values (26.3, 27.6, 31.2, 35.9.....) (EyeOne,
Colormunki, etc).
> But I have not tried the Optical density(1.18, 1.24, 1.30, ....)
>
> *For paper(positive print) the density values start out high and
decrease
> *For Altanative(Negative print) the density values start out low and
increase
>
>
> Please try it!
>
>
> Kentaro Kumagai
> http://www.digital-negatives.jp/
>
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington"
bill.iverson@ wrote:
> >
> > I've recently been told that QTR can directly linearize profiles for
digital negatives by entering 21-step density values read from a print
made from the digital negative, so that the density values start out
high and decrease (e.g., 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 ... 0.05).  Sure enough, when
I enter these values in the linearization tab, QTRgui Curve Creation
generates new Ink Curves for the profile, which seem to be modified from
the previous Ink Curves generated simply with the ink description.
> >
> > My question is how do I know if my installed QTR has the newest
version of this digital negative linearization feature?  A posting by
Kentaro Kumagi in June 2012 (msg. 10358 Re: "starter profiles" for
digital negatives) provides a link to a "fixed patch for Win QTR ...
given by Roy [Harrington]" which provides this capability.  I never
installed such a patch,a but the fact that my QTR linearization tab will
accept density values running from high to low suggests I somehow
acquired the capability (I think).  I believe I have QTR 2.7.2,
downloaded in the past year, but determining just what I have is hard
since "QTR 2.7.2" apparently still uses the 2.7.0.0 QTRgui Windows
interface.  My QTR "About" panel and hard drive info indicate I have the
following modules:
> > QTRgui 2.7.0.0 file date 3/27/2010 size 10,574,404
> > QuadToPrinter 2.7.2.0 file date 8/14/2011 size 827,392
> > QuadProfile 2.7.2.0 file date 9/8/2011 size 917,570
> >
> > Sorry to pose such a tedious question, but using the wrong
linearization feature or using it in the wrong way would make my already
somewhat time-consuming and expensive efforts to create digital negative
profiles for PtPd printing even so.  Thanks.
> >
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi bill_iverson

 I realized that I had been wrong.

*For paper(positive print) the L* values start out Highlight to Shadow

LINEARIZE="96.74 93 88.19 82.72 77.16 71.92 66.64 61.62 56.83 52.7 48.63 44.81 41.48 37.83 34.41 31.15 27.96 24.93 22.87 21.09 18.95"



*For Altanative(Negative print) the L* values start out Shadow to Highlight

LINEARIZE="26.3 27.6 31.2 35.8 39.6 42.8 46.2 47.9 50.4 52.9 56.4 60.5 64.1 67.2 70.5 73.4 75.9 78.6 81.3 86.3 95.0 "


I don't try about "Optical density" (ect 0 ~ 1.3)@I don't have a density meter.
If you're using "density meter", 
Please convert the "Density" and "Lab"

Companding Calculator
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/CompandCalculator.html

And "Linearization Checker" is useful
http://shopping.netsuite.com/c.362672/site/techdocs/Custom_Profiling_Package.zip

Regards,
Kentaro Kumagai




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington" <bill.iverson@...> wrote:

>
> I've recently been told that QTR can directly linearize profiles for digital negatives by entering 21-step density values read from a print made from the digital negative, so that the density values start out high and decrease (e.g., 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 ... 0.05).  Sure enough, when I enter these values in the linearization tab, QTRgui Curve Creation generates new Ink Curves for the profile, which seem to be modified from the previous Ink Curves generated simply with the ink description.
> 
> My question is how do I know if my installed QTR has the newest version of this digital negative linearization feature?  A posting by Kentaro Kumagi in June 2012 (msg. 10358 Re: "starter profiles" for digital negatives) provides a link to a "fixed patch for Win QTR ... given by Roy [Harrington]" which provides this capability.  I never installed such a patch,a but the fact that my QTR linearization tab will accept density values running from high to low suggests I somehow acquired the capability (I think).  I believe I have QTR 2.7.2, downloaded in the past year, but determining just what I have is hard since "QTR 2.7.2" apparently still uses the 2.7.0.0 QTRgui Windows interface.  My QTR "About" panel and hard drive info indicate I have the following modules:
> QTRgui 2.7.0.0 file date 3/27/2010 size 10,574,404
> QuadToPrinter 2.7.2.0 file date 8/14/2011 size 827,392
> QuadProfile 2.7.2.0 file date 9/8/2011 size 917,570
> 
> Sorry to pose such a tedious question, but using the wrong linearization feature or using it in the wrong way would make my already somewhat time-consuming and expensive efforts to create digital negative profiles for PtPd printing even so.  Thanks.
>

Basically you want to order the measurements (either L values or density):
white to black -- for regular prints
black to white -- for negatives.

It recognizes L vs d by the size of the numbers.

Roy


On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 6:35 PM, kumagaikentaro <homepage@...>wrote:

> Hi bill_iverson
>
>  I realized that I had been wrong.
>
> *For paper(positive print) the L* values start out Highlight to Shadow
>
> LINEARIZE="96.74 93 88.19 82.72 77.16 71.92 66.64 61.62 56.83 52.7 48.63
> 44.81 41.48 37.83 34.41 31.15 27.96 24.93 22.87 21.09 18.95"
>
>
>
> *For Altanative(Negative print) the L* values start out Shadow to Highlight
>
> LINEARIZE="26.3 27.6 31.2 35.8 39.6 42.8 46.2 47.9 50.4 52.9 56.4 60.5
> 64.1 67.2 70.5 73.4 75.9 78.6 81.3 86.3 95.0 "
>
>
> I don't try about "Optical density" (ect 0 ~ 1.3) @I don't have a density
> meter.
> If you're using "density meter",
> Please convert the "Density" and "Lab"
>
> Companding Calculator
> http://www.brucelindbloom.com/CompandCalculator.html
>
> And "Linearization Checker" is useful
>
> http://shopping.netsuite.com/c.362672/site/techdocs/Custom_Profiling_Package.zip
>
> Regards,
> Kentaro Kumagai
>
>
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington"
> <bill.iverson@...> wrote:
> >
> > I've recently been told that QTR can directly linearize profiles for
> digital negatives by entering 21-step density values read from a print made
> from the digital negative, so that the density values start out high and
> decrease (e.g., 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 ... 0.05).  Sure enough, when I enter
> these values in the linearization tab, QTRgui Curve Creation generates new
> Ink Curves for the profile, which seem to be modified from the previous Ink
> Curves generated simply with the ink description.
> >
> > My question is how do I know if my installed QTR has the newest version
> of this digital negative linearization feature?  A posting by Kentaro
> Kumagi in June 2012 (msg. 10358 Re: "starter profiles" for digital
> negatives) provides a link to a "fixed patch for Win QTR ... given by Roy
> [Harrington]" which provides this capability.  I never installed such a
> patch,a but the fact that my QTR linearization tab will accept density
> values running from high to low suggests I somehow acquired the capability
> (I think).  I believe I have QTR 2.7.2, downloaded in the past year, but
> determining just what I have is hard since "QTR 2.7.2" apparently still
> uses the 2.7.0.0 QTRgui Windows interface.  My QTR "About" panel and hard
> drive info indicate I have the following modules:
> > QTRgui 2.7.0.0 file date 3/27/2010 size 10,574,404
> > QuadToPrinter 2.7.2.0 file date 8/14/2011 size 827,392
> > QuadProfile 2.7.2.0 file date 9/8/2011 size 917,570
> >
> > Sorry to pose such a tedious question, but using the wrong linearization
> feature or using it in the wrong way would make my already somewhat
> time-consuming and expensive efforts to create digital negative profiles
> for PtPd printing even so.  Thanks.
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What is the difference, if any,  between linearization in QTR between the function GRAY_CURVE =, inserted into the, profile as opposed to the function LINEARIZE=.

Sandy









--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:

>
> Basically you want to order the measurements (either L values or density):
> white to black -- for regular prints
> black to white -- for negatives.
> 
> It recognizes L vs d by the size of the numbers.
> 
> Roy
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 6:35 PM, kumagaikentaro <homepage@...>wrote:
> 
> > Hi bill_iverson
> >
> >  I realized that I had been wrong.
> >
> > *For paper(positive print) the L* values start out Highlight to Shadow
> >
> > LINEARIZE="96.74 93 88.19 82.72 77.16 71.92 66.64 61.62 56.83 52.7 48.63
> > 44.81 41.48 37.83 34.41 31.15 27.96 24.93 22.87 21.09 18.95"
> >
> >
> >
> > *For Altanative(Negative print) the L* values start out Shadow to Highlight
> >
> > LINEARIZE="26.3 27.6 31.2 35.8 39.6 42.8 46.2 47.9 50.4 52.9 56.4 60.5
> > 64.1 67.2 70.5 73.4 75.9 78.6 81.3 86.3 95.0 "
> >
> >
> > I don't try about "Optical density" (ect 0 ~ 1.3) @I don't have a density
> > meter.
> > If you're using "density meter",
> > Please convert the "Density" and "Lab"
> >
> > Companding Calculator
> > http://www.brucelindbloom.com/CompandCalculator.html
> >
> > And "Linearization Checker" is useful
> >
> > http://shopping.netsuite.com/c.362672/site/techdocs/Custom_Profiling_Package.zip
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kentaro Kumagai
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington"
> > <bill.iverson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've recently been told that QTR can directly linearize profiles for
> > digital negatives by entering 21-step density values read from a print made
> > from the digital negative, so that the density values start out high and
> > decrease (e.g., 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 ... 0.05).  Sure enough, when I enter
> > these values in the linearization tab, QTRgui Curve Creation generates new
> > Ink Curves for the profile, which seem to be modified from the previous Ink
> > Curves generated simply with the ink description.
> > >
> > > My question is how do I know if my installed QTR has the newest version
> > of this digital negative linearization feature?  A posting by Kentaro
> > Kumagi in June 2012 (msg. 10358 Re: "starter profiles" for digital
> > negatives) provides a link to a "fixed patch for Win QTR ... given by Roy
> > [Harrington]" which provides this capability.  I never installed such a
> > patch,a but the fact that my QTR linearization tab will accept density
> > values running from high to low suggests I somehow acquired the capability
> > (I think).  I believe I have QTR 2.7.2, downloaded in the past year, but
> > determining just what I have is hard since "QTR 2.7.2" apparently still
> > uses the 2.7.0.0 QTRgui Windows interface.  My QTR "About" panel and hard
> > drive info indicate I have the following modules:
> > > QTRgui 2.7.0.0 file date 3/27/2010 size 10,574,404
> > > QuadToPrinter 2.7.2.0 file date 8/14/2011 size 827,392
> > > QuadProfile 2.7.2.0 file date 9/8/2011 size 917,570
> > >
> > > Sorry to pose such a tedious question, but using the wrong linearization
> > feature or using it in the wrong way would make my already somewhat
> > time-consuming and expensive efforts to create digital negative profiles
> > for PtPd printing even so.  Thanks.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Roy Harrington
> roy@...
> www.harrington.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Sandy,

A few differences:
GRAY_CURVE only affects the inks under the GRAY defs -- not the TONER defs
It's a simple (X,Y) curve like Photoshop curves.  Any set of (X,Y)'s are
accepted.

LINEARIZATION affects the whole set of inks.
It takes Lab or density values and converts those units into (X,Y) coords.
But they are "inverse" to get a correction curve making the new result
linear in L values.
It only accepts measurements of evenly spaces steps.

Roy

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:16 AM, SandyK <sanking@...> wrote:

> What is the difference, if any,  between linearization in QTR between the
> function GRAY_CURVE =, inserted into the, profile as opposed to the
> function LINEARIZE=.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>


-- 
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:
 
> A few differences:
> GRAY_CURVE only affects the inks under the GRAY defs -- not the TONER defs
> It's a simple (X,Y) curve like Photoshop curves.  Any set of (X,Y)'s are
> accepted.

And using the same curve as GRAY_CURVE and TONER_CURVE would also linearize all inks I presume?

-kees

Bill, are you actually in Washington? Near Seattle? We'll have a presentation/workshop day here in a few weeks, Ron Reeder will be here presenting his workflow. He uses QTR and makes negs for gorgeous platinum prints. I'll announce it here on list when t's coming up if people are interested.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington" <bill@...> wrote:

>
> 
> Thank you very much Kentaro.  I have downloaded your newer qdensity.exe
> file and will try it.
> 
> The increasing L* values you have tried go from darker to lighter.  So
> it would seem the density values should also go from darker to lighter. 
> Such as 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 . . . 0.05.  Not 0.05, 0.12, 0.18 . . . 1.30. 
> Also, if I enter density values in the same way I do for making a QTR
> profile to print a positive print (from lighter to darker), how would
> the program module know that I want to linearize a digital negative
> profile and not a profile for printing positive prints.
> 
> Do you agree?
> 
> 
>   Bill Iverson
> 
> bill@... <mailto:bill@...>
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "kumagaikentaro"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi bill_iverson
> >
> > Linearization Fixed patch (for Windows QTR)
> >
> > http://www.digital-negatives.jp/download.html
> > /
> > http://www.digital-negatives.jp/download/qdensity.zip
> >
> > Please copy qdensity.exe
> > C:\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP\bin
> > or
> > C:\Program Files\QuadToneRIP\bin
> >
> >
> > Please the density values start out low and increase.
> > I tried Lab(L*) values (26.3, 27.6, 31.2, 35.9.....) (EyeOne,
> Colormunki, etc).
> > But I have not tried the Optical density(1.18, 1.24, 1.30, ....)
> >
> > *For paper(positive print) the density values start out high and
> decrease
> > *For Altanative(Negative print) the density values start out low and
> increase
> >
> >
> > Please try it!
> >
> >
> > Kentaro Kumagai
> > http://www.digital-negatives.jp/
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington"
> bill.iverson@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I've recently been told that QTR can directly linearize profiles for
> digital negatives by entering 21-step density values read from a print
> made from the digital negative, so that the density values start out
> high and decrease (e.g., 1.30, 1.24, 1.18 ... 0.05).  Sure enough, when
> I enter these values in the linearization tab, QTRgui Curve Creation
> generates new Ink Curves for the profile, which seem to be modified from
> the previous Ink Curves generated simply with the ink description.
> > >
> > > My question is how do I know if my installed QTR has the newest
> version of this digital negative linearization feature?  A posting by
> Kentaro Kumagi in June 2012 (msg. 10358 Re: "starter profiles" for
> digital negatives) provides a link to a "fixed patch for Win QTR ...
> given by Roy [Harrington]" which provides this capability.  I never
> installed such a patch,a but the fact that my QTR linearization tab will
> accept density values running from high to low suggests I somehow
> acquired the capability (I think).  I believe I have QTR 2.7.2,
> downloaded in the past year, but determining just what I have is hard
> since "QTR 2.7.2" apparently still uses the 2.7.0.0 QTRgui Windows
> interface.  My QTR "About" panel and hard drive info indicate I have the
> following modules:
> > > QTRgui 2.7.0.0 file date 3/27/2010 size 10,574,404
> > > QuadToPrinter 2.7.2.0 file date 8/14/2011 size 827,392
> > > QuadProfile 2.7.2.0 file date 9/8/2011 size 917,570
> > >
> > > Sorry to pose such a tedious question, but using the wrong
> linearization feature or using it in the wrong way would make my already
> somewhat time-consuming and expensive efforts to create digital negative
> profiles for PtPd printing even so.  Thanks.
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Tyler, I'd love to see your presentation.  Alas, I'm in Washington DC.  All you cool guys are in the Pacific NW (or northern California).  Nobody here but us spies, lawyers and politicians.  I lack the heart to say which I am. 

Bill

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "tboleyyh" <tyler@...> wrote:

>
> Bill, are you actually in Washington? Near Seattle? We'll have a presentation/workshop day here in a few weeks, Ron Reeder will be here presenting his workflow. He uses QTR and makes negs for gorgeous platinum prints. I'll announce it here on list when t's coming up if people are interested.
> Tyler
> http://www.custom-digital.com/
> 
> * * * THREAD DELETED * * *

there are cool guys here somewhere?!?!?!
Well I'll prefer to imagine you are a spy.. slightly more intriguing...
T

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "bill_iverson_washington" <bill@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> Tyler, I'd love to see your presentation.  Alas, I'm in Washington DC.  All you cool guys are in the Pacific NW (or northern California).  Nobody here but us spies, lawyers and politicians.  I lack the heart to say which I am. 
> 
> Bill
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "tboleyyh" <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill, are you actually in Washington? Near Seattle? We'll have a presentation/workshop day here in a few weeks, Ron Reeder will be here presenting his workflow. He uses QTR and makes negs for gorgeous platinum prints. I'll announce it here on list when t's coming up if people are interested.
> > Tyler
> > http://www.custom-digital.com/
> > 
> > * * * THREAD DELETED * * *
>