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Different densities printed on step tablet

Different densities printed on step tablet

2014-04-05 by <luciano@...>

I am using a modified version of the Ron Reeder step tablet. I have kept only the steps 0 to 100 in 5% increments and the steps from 0 to 100 in 10% increments. The step tablet has an embedded Gray Gamma 2.2 profile, and when I read the K% in PS CC the values are correct.
I print the tablet on Pictorico on an Epson R2880 with Pk using Print Tool. The settings of Print Tool are:
Main Window
Printer: QuadR2880
No Color Management (maybe this is the error)
When I hit Print, the next set of tabs indicate:
Color Matching - Everything grayed out (but with ColorSync selected)
Printer Features - Media Type: Photo Paper
QuadTone RIP - Mode: QuadTone RIP 8-bit, Curve 1: I select my curve, Resolution: 2880 dpi, Speed: Unidir.
Now the problem: I started noticing that the 50% boxes where reading different values when evaluating the scan of the contact print (I use gum).
At first I thought it was my coating technique, my scanner, and even some little pixie that was having fun! To make a long story short, after printing several step tablets, I rested the negative on the lightbox that was on, and by chance noticed a different color for the boxes that where supposed to be the same. So I scanned the negative and indeed some of the patches (not only the 50% patch) from the 0-100 in 5% increments have different K values than the corresponding patches from the 0-100 in 10% increments. What is strange is the patch number is not always the same. I printed 5 step tablets on the same sheet of Pictorico and the number of patches that read different K values are differ from one step tablet to the other.
What am I doing wrong? It seems unlikely that the printer is acting up so much, so I think is definitely some mistake I am making.
In the zzMisc folder, I uploaded the scan of the step tablet negative (step_tablet Negative.tif).
Hope that someone can shed some light on this.
Thanks,
Luciano

Re: Different densities printed on step tablet

2014-04-05 by <brucerccampbell@...>

Just one idea is "what curve are you selecting for printing out your step wedge? It sounds like you don't have a "no curve" selected thus you are applying a curve to your step wedge.

Bruce

Re: Different densities printed on step tablet

2014-04-06 by <luciano@...>

I do select my own profile, but the point is that the same step should always print with the same density. Or am I missing something?
In any case, I tried also using System Managed for Print Color Management, and QuadToneRIP in Color Matching. The problem remains. Any other ideas? Thanks.
Luciano

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Different densities printed on step tablet

2014-04-06 by Roy Harrington

Hi Luciano,

I looked at your scan of the step wedges and I think you are just seeing natural variations.
First the there's the dithering while printing the wedge and then there's the randomness of
the scan. If you just take the ink sampler in Photoshop you can be sampling one pixel at
a time or a small block. Just moving around in a single patch you can see quite a variation
probably mostly because of the dithering dots -- dust specks on the scan can also do it.

To get a better value than using the eyedropper what you can do is draw a small square
inside a patch -- avoid the edges and where the number is. Then in the Histogram pane
you'll see a Mean i.e. average of all those pixels. The value is 0 (black) to 255 (white) so
you'll need to convert: K = 100 - (x/2.55) to get percents.

Another thing to remember is that the file values are always 0 to 255 so K=50 is a calculated
value. The internal could be 127 or 128 or better half each. If you can steep curves this can
make a difference.

Roy

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 2:18 AM, <luciano@...> wrote:


I do select my own profile, but the point is that the same step should always print with the same density. Or am I missing something?
In any case, I tried also using System Managed for Print Color Management, and QuadToneRIP in Color Matching. The problem remains. Any other ideas? Thanks.
Luciano





--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Different densities printed on step tablet

2014-04-06 by <luciano@...>

Hi Roy,

Thanks for the reply. More than the values, what got me started, is that when visually comparing two patches, one looks darker than the other. I don't have any digital printing experience, but I thought that if I print two squares of the same color, at the same time and on the same sheet, the result would be the same.
Maybe I should just use a step wedge with only one set of values and forget about this.
But I'll take your suggestion and measure the mean value on the scan.
Thanks,
Luciano

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Different densities printed on step tablet

2014-04-07 by Roy Harrington

Yes, "two squares of the same color, at the same time and on the same sheet, the result would be the same."
At least pretty much -- there are printer variations that all the dithering and weaving are designed to hide.
Not to mention: optical illusions because of surrounding values are surprising hard to ignore.

Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:54 AM, <luciano@...> wrote:


Hi Roy,

Thanks for the reply. More than the values, what got me started, is that when visually comparing two patches, one looks darker than the other. I don't have any digital printing experience, but I thought that if I print two squares of the same color, at the same time and on the same sheet, the result would be the same.
Maybe I should just use a step wedge with only one set of values and forget about this.
But I'll take your suggestion and measure the mean value on the scan.
Thanks,

Luciano




--
Roy Harrington
roy@harrington.com
www.harrington.com

Re: Different densities printed on step tablet

2014-04-09 by <luciano@...>

Roy, is printing with No Color Management and selecting my curve correct? I am using Print Tool and my document has Gray Gamma 2.2 embedded.
Thanks,
Luciano

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