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Linearization with scanner

Linearization with scanner

2015-09-12 by unesco18@...

Hi all,

Just my first post here :-).
I have just installed QTR to have a try with BW printing against ABW on my 3880 (Windows) and try to get best possible results. I really like the prints but because of various papers I use I really would like to optimize each paper.

I tried with Tecco baryt papers as well as with Tetenal regular ones (all PK). Because I have no direct access to densitometer as well as to spectrophotometer I used the procedure with scanner described on QTR web page pdf. I have Q13 target and Epson V500 scanner.

I printed dedicated 21 step wedge tiff (there is 15% dot gain profile embeded) through QTR using PK raw neutral profile and scanned both as described in the document (300 dpi, 16 bit to Epson sRGB, all whistles swiched off). Then run the PS script included which finished with Lab .txt file. Then pasted L values to linearization for the profile I used for printing an saved. Scanner quality is ok, all darks easy to distinguish.

Then printed my reference BW picture with the linearised profile an the picture is definitely too dark. Before linearisation it was more-less ok.

I cannot find the reason. Tried to scan to grayscale instead to RGB - the same result. Then realised that my reference picture I use has 20% dot gain profile embeded. So changed both: 21 step wedge and my reference to have the same (e.g. Gamma 2.2) profile - the same result - after linearisation, picture is to dark.

So, my kind questions are as follows:
1) What grayscale profile of printed picture I shoud use for QTR embeded profiles e.g. PK raw neut to have proper result (~= to what I see on my monitor - Eizo Color Edge line, regularly calibrated)? I cannot find it in QTR documentation (gamma 1.8, 2.2? why 21 step wedge has 15% dot gain profile?).
2) Do I do any mistakes in abovementioned linearisation?
3) I assume 21 step wedge tiff should have the same profile when printed as printed picture?
4) Is it possible that Q13 target I have is of bad quality?
5) Any mistakes in PS when using the script?

I tried above on 3 papers, also with baryt profile from QTR - the same result.

ANY halp appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Re: Linearization with scanner

2015-09-12 by mike.finley@...

One problem with using a scanner for linearisation is that most use fluorescent tubes for illumination, and these often emit ultaviolet light. This light creates an overbright image of the print to be created by the scanner if there are any brighteners in the paper (which is often the case). Profiling using the overbright image will result in darker prints in normal lighting conditions. A cheap LED scanner is better for creating profiles than one using fluorescent tubes.

Re: Linearization with scanner

2015-09-12 by unesco18@...

Thank you for quick answer.
This might be the case, but V500 uses LED source. Also, I tried on both kind of papers: OBA rich satin (Tetenal) and oba free baryts (Tecco).
What I can try is to take a picture by digital camer instead of scanner in my studio flash lights - what do you think?

One more thing to add: when I print the 21 step wedge target again but with linearised profile the printout is perfectly linear, so the procedure does its job but mistake is somewhere hidden...

Re: Linearization with scanner

2015-10-18 by unesco18@...

After one month of trying to linearize with my scaner I made the following observations:

1) PK RAW profile from QTR is perfectly linear, as for my eye, looking at concentric grayscale circles test charts. Tetenal satin/pearl papers.

2) Applying linearisation with use of Q13 test chart, scanner and QTR-StepWedge-Tool.zip makes the profile not only too dark as described in my original post but also non linear. Clearly visible bumps on concentric grayscale circles test.

3) I repeated the procedure of linearisation with studio flash lamps (5500 K) and digital camera (EOS 6D) instead of my scanner. RAW file, PS CC 2015 processing: results very DIFFERENT than using my scanner. Shape of the curve is like for different type paper. In theory it should give the same results since I cmpare Q13 reference with printed 21 step wedge.

4) Surprisingly, using scaner, numerical results of the output of L as computed by QTR-StepWedge-Tool are very linear after linearisation! But my eyes sey something different...

Conclusions: there is no conclusion, I am totally messed up, maybe QTR-StepWedge-Tool code has some bugs? Any ideas that would help me? Certainly, I make a mistake somewhere, but can't find it.

Re: Linearization with scanner

2015-10-18 by mike.finley@...

Does your scanner use fluorescent lights?

If so, that may cause problems, depending on the paper you are using. If the paper has optical brighteners in it (many do, if they are white), the brighteners will be over-excited by the ultraviolet content of most fluorescent tubes, and give incorrect readings.
I tried a fluorescent tube scanner several years ago and couldn’t use the resulting profiles. An LED scanner was better (no ultraviolet!) but in the end I bought a ColorMunki Photo.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Linearization with scanner

2015-10-18 by Paul Roark

Although several of us have tried to come up with alternatives to buying a good "spectro" (using the abbreviated term generically and non-technically), and these methods can work reasonably well, my Datacolor Spyder Print remains one of the best investments I've ever made in photo equipment.

Paul
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On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, unesco18@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

After one month of trying to linearize with my scaner I made the following observations:


1) PK RAW profile from QTR is perfectly linear, as for my eye, looking at concentric grayscale circles test charts. Tetenal satin/pearl papers.

2) Applying linearisation with use of Q13 test chart, scanner and QTR-StepWedge-Tool.zip makes the profile not only too dark as described in my original post but also non linear. Clearly visible bumps on concentric grayscale circles test.

3) I repeated the procedure of linearisation with studio flash lamps (5500 K) and digital camera (EOS 6D) instead of my scanner. RAW file, PS CC 2015 processing: results very DIFFERENT than using my scanner. Shape of the curve is like for different type paper. In theory it should give the same results since I cmpare Q13 reference with printed 21 step wedge.

4) Surprisingly, using scaner, numerical results of the output of L as computed by QTR-StepWedge-Tool are very linear after linearisation! But my eyes sey something different...

Conclusions: there is no conclusion, I am totally messed up, maybe QTR-StepWedge-Tool code has some bugs? Any ideas that would help me? Certainly, I make a mistake somewhere, but can't find it.


Re: Linearization with scanner

2015-10-19 by unesco18@...

My scanner uses LED light. The problem is somewhere else.
It looks like I will need spectro sooner or later ;-).

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