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What does microbanding look like?

What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-20 by jp432r@...

This has probably been asked and answered, because the term is used frequently and everyone seems to know what it means, but I cannot find a definition anywhere.

It sounds like it might be the problem I'm having, but without a definition that's just a guess.


BTW my problem is very narrow moderately faint diagonal lines in any smooth tone such as a clear sky. I've fiddled a bit, but so far have not been able to effect the result.

Thanks, JeffR


RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-21 by Jim Bechtel

Respectfully.  (Honest) … The message was clipped so we can’t see the question.. I get that we don’t want lengthy posts but including the question might, in this case, be a plus.. especially for those that clean out our email or don’t spend the time to go back to track the original question down….Just sayin…Ok? 

 

jimbo
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From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 12:25 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: What does microbanding look like?

 

  

I really need someone to answer this question. PLEASE?



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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-21 by brian_downunda@...

The original question is at the end of this post, for those who read by email. The OP did not quote it when he asked his follow-up question, which is why Paul didn't.

To add a little to Paul's answer, there are (at least) two kinds of microbanding. With QTR on non-Pro printers (R3000 and older), there is microbanding in the first and last ink of the print. These are faint and slightly irregular thin lines that are parallel to the direction of the print head travel, and taper off at around the inch mark. These are a limitation of the printer firmware. This can't be fixed, but there are workarounds. Search the forum for plenty of discussion of this.

If you get regular faint lines in this direct across the whole print, then the cause is something else. Could be an imperfect nozzle check or misfiring nozzles, or a print head alignment issue if you're printing bidirectional rather than uni. This is a printer issue and in theory, should be fixable.

"Diagonal" lines is a new one on me. Would need more details and scan.


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <roark.paul@...> wrote :

Thin lines that go in the direction of the head ...

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 11:24 AM, jp432r@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I really need someone to answer this question. PLEASE?



"This has probably been asked and answered, because the term is used frequently and everyone seems to know what it means, but I cannot find a definition anywhere.
It sounds like it might be the problem I'm having, but without a definition that's just a guess.
BTW my problem is very narrow moderately faint diagonal lines in any smooth tone such as a clear sky. I've fiddled a bit, but so far have not been able to effect the result."



Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-21 by sanking@...

Is your question about the digital negative, or the carbon process?

If it is about the carbon process, there are several kinds of printing artifacts that can result in diagonal lines on a carbon, regardless of the type of negative.

If your question is about digital negatives, I have never seen diagonal lines on my QTR generated digital negatives. The only lines I have seen run vertically or horizontally, never on the diagonal. Diagonal lines to me would suggest either a printing artifact, or perhaps a pattern on the OHP material you are using to print your negatives.

Miicro-banding as I have seen it does not results in diagonal lines.

Sandy



BTW my problem is very narrow moderately faint diagonal lines in any smooth tone such as a clear sky. I've fiddled a bit, but so far have not been able to effect the result.

Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-21 by Myron Gochnauer

...my problem is very narrow moderately faint diagonal lines in any smooth tone such as a clear sky.

Like others, I have seen a variety banding and lines, but never anything that is diagonal.

Is it possible to post a picture showing them?

Because the head moves horizontally when actually printing, laying down line after line, as it were, it is difficult to figure out how a mechanical or hydraulic defect could produce a *diagonal* line. I cannot think of anything in my Epson printers that “drags* slowly across the page as it moves past the print head.

Myron

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-21 by Paul Roark

I assume the question was the subject line.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 11:49 AM, 'Jim Bechtel' mrjimbo2@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Respectfully. (Honest) … The message was clipped so we can’t see the question.. I get that we don’t want lengthy posts but including the question might, in this case, be a plus.. especially for those that clean out our email or don’t spend the time to go back to track the original question down….Just sayin…Ok?

jimbo

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 12:25 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: What does microbanding look like?

I really need someone to answer this question. PLEASE?

 _____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4431/10676 - Release Date: 09/21/15

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4431/10676 - Release Date: 09/21/15

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-22 by Jim Coffee

Perhaps moire?
A scan of the problem would help us help you.

-Jim Coffee-
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On 19 September 2015 at 18:29, jp432r@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

This has probably been asked and answered, because the term is used frequently and everyone seems to know what it means, but I cannot find a definition anywhere.

It sounds like it might be the problem I'm having, but without a definition that's just a guess.


BTW my problem is very narrow moderately faint diagonal lines in any smooth tone such as a clear sky. I've fiddled a bit, but so far have not been able to effect the result.

Thanks, JeffR



Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-22 by jp432r@...

Getting an answer to my question was part of figuring out whether it was a QTR/printer problem or a carbon printing problem.

The comments that no one on this forum has experienced diagonal lines, only horizontal or vertical ones rather indicates that the problem is in my carbon printing technique.

I'm printing my negs on Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP. In passing I have exposed entirely unprinted bits of film directly onto the carbon tissue and find no lines there.

One thing I have already checked is that the direction of the faint diagonal lines does not correspond the direction in which I've peeled the tissue from the paper sandwich. Sometimes they are parallel to the direction and sometimes they are perpendicular to it.

I am intrigued your statement that "there are several kinds of printing artifacts that can result in diagonal lines on a carbon, regardless of the type of negative." Can you enlarge on that subject?

I will be happy to post a scan of one of my failures just as soon as I figure out how.

JeffR

Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-22 by sanking@...

I will comment, but if you want to get into a very extensive discussion of the carbon process I would suggest posting to the carbon transfer forum

But in short, too much moisture in the tissue at the time of exposure can cause irregular lines that look like crossword puzzles, especially with vacuum exposure units. Diagonal lines are also caused by not soaking the tissue long enough in the mating bath, not waiting long enough in hot water to develop, not enough sugar in the pigmented glop. Sometimes this problem can be very hard to diagnose for a specific work flow since since these can vary so much.

Sandy

I am intrigued your statement that "there are several kinds of printing artifacts that can result in diagonal lines on a carbon, regardless of the type of negative." Can you enlarge on that subject?

Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-23 by jp432r@...

Thank you for the response. Now that I've pretty much determined that the problem is likely my carbon technique I'll move over to the Carbon forum.

Of the things you mentioned not soaking the tissue long enough seems most likely. I've gotten it down pretty short because doing that seemed to reduce frilling.

I assume you are the Sandy King who is so revered in carbon printing circles. Honored to meet you.

Thanks, Jeff

Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-23 by sanking@...

Jeff,

I am the same Sandy King who moderates the carbon discussion forum on Yahoo. And there are many really good carbon printers who participate in the discussions.

One of the members of the group recently went through a similar experience with unexpected lines on his prints, and had to make a number of modifications to his work flow to eliminate the problem.


Sandy

Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-23 by jp432r@...

Sandy and everyone:
Thanks for helping me begin to sort out this problem.

Since Jim Coffee asked in this forum for a scan of my "lines" problem I have posted a jpg at Files/zzMisc/LinesProblem.jpg.

It looks as if my problem is not related to QTR, so, at Sandy's suggestion, I'm gonna take it over to the CarbonPrinting forum.

Thanks again for all the help.

JeffR

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-23 by Jim Coffee

Jeff...

Thanks for posting the image. These lines are certainly not what I had in mind. This has been a very interesting thread.

-Jim Coffee-
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On 23 September 2015 at 11:45, jp432r@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Sandy and everyone:
Thanks for helping me begin to sort out this problem.

Since Jim Coffee asked in this forum for a scan of my "lines" problem I have posted a jpg at Files/zzMisc/LinesProblem.jpg.

It looks as if my problem is not related to QTR, so, at Sandy's suggestion, I'm gonna take it over to the CarbonPrinting forum.

Thanks again for all the help.

JeffR


Re: What does microbanding look like?

2015-09-30 by jp432r@...

I wanted to let everyone know that a passing remark by Sandy King guided me to the solution.

When I posted my original question, I was not sure whether the "diagonal lines" were a QTR problem or a problem elsewhere in the process.

It was not a QTR problem. It was a problem in my carbon printing technique.

If I need more help I will take it over to the Carbon Technique forum.

But REALLY all I want to say it THANKS for all the help sorting out my problem.

JeffR

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