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Print tool margins incorrect

Print tool margins incorrect

2016-05-30 by tracy@...

Been using PrintTool (PT) since the day it came out, and AFAIK w/o any problems. But I generally print on larger paper, so perhaps I overlooked this, but...


I had a client ask for prints on (sheet fed) 11 x 14 paper. I have my own sizes, all with 0.0 margins. I printed the image after centering it (and verifying that PT's top and bottom margin were identical)... only to discover that the top margin (the edge that comes out of the printer (a 9890, run from a Mac with 10.11.4) first) was off by about 2/10s of an inch, making it smaller than the bottom edge by 4/10s.


Changing the paper margins themselves made no difference, and I'm now in the position of having to increase PT's top margin by 0.20 on every print to get measurably identical top/bottom margins on the final print.


I do not see a way to adjust the physical feed of the printer's starting position, and I'm really curious as to what has gone wrong.


(No: it's not just 11 x 14 paper: it happens with every size I've tested.)


Anyone with suggestions or comments? TIA.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Print tool margins incorrect

2016-05-30 by Roy Harrington

Hi Tracy

You don't mention which print driver you are using. If QTR driver the simple answer is that
borderless (0.0 margins) is not supported -- 0.125 inch top & sides, 0.556 inch bottom.

But I'm guessing you are using Epson driver. Here there are a lot of variations on borderless
support and sheet paper in general. I think creating your own sizes for borderless is not possible.
By far the best thing to do is pick built-in Epson driver sizes for as much as possible.
They have 11x14 paper sizes -- be sure to pick Sheet not Roll (which is default on many sizes).

Roy

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 1:16 PM, tracy@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Been using PrintTool (PT) since the day it came out, and AFAIK w/o any problems. But I generally print on larger paper, so perhaps I overlooked this, but...


I had a client ask for prints on (sheet fed) 11 x 14 paper. I have my own sizes, all with 0.0 margins. I printed the image after centering it (and verifying that PT's top and bottom margin were identical)... only to discover that the top margin (the edge that comes out of the printer (a 9890, run from a Mac with 10.11.4) first) was off by about 2/10s of an inch, making it smaller than the bottom edge by 4/10s.


Changing the paper margins themselves made no difference, and I'm now in the position of having to increase PT's top margin by 0.20 on every print to get measurably identical top/bottom margins on the final print.


I do not see a way to adjust the physical feed of the printer's starting position, and I'm really curious as to what has gone wrong.


(No: it's not just 11 x 14 paper: it happens with every size I've tested.)


Anyone with suggestions or comments? TIA.






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Re: Print tool margins incorrect

2016-05-30 by tracy@...

Thank you, Roy. Yes, it's the Epson driver.

Note that I was not trying to print edge-to-edge borderless, but only that I got rid of the default Epson paper size borders, setting them all to zero.

The images I'm printing are all -smaller- than the paper size, by at least an inch, sometimes 2 inches. (In that case, even if the Epson default borders were left in place, it would not make any difference.)

The issue is that if I choose to center the image (using the 'bulls eye') the top and the bottom margins are the same (in PT) and the left and the right margins are also the same.

However when the image prints, the bottom margin is 4/10 of an inch larger than the top margin, as measured on the paper itself.

That said, I'll try again using the default paper margin size, and see if that makes any difference.

Re: Print tool margins incorrect

2016-05-31 by tracy@...

... and indeed, it did make a difference. It's still not a match on the top and bottom, but the difference has gone down to 1 1/4 vs 1 5/16 - a 16th of an inch instead of a far more visible 3/16.

Interestingly, changing the top margin on my own paper to match the 1/8 inch of Epson's top margin did not affect the outcome, so apparently it's some combination of the top and bottom margin (.556) at play.

Given all that, and the fact that it -still- was off by 1/16, I've decided that it's actually easier to keep all my custom paper sizes (with 0 borders all the way around) and just adjust the top margin in PrintTool.

I get an exact match, top and bottom, by adding 0.19 to the current top setting. That's really pretty easy, for the math adverse, since it's just adding 0.2, and subtracting 0.01.

So: if the top margin shown on center is, say 1.29, then adding 0.2 = 1.49, and taking out 0.01 yields 1.48.

That is, by the way, approximately 3/16 of an inch.

At least for me, running El Capitan, PrintTool, Epson's driver and sheet feeding with 0,0,0,0 margins, this technique produces exactly balanced top/bottom margins.

Finally, as to "why so fussy?" (in case any lurkers are wondering) it's this: my client specified 11x14 paper, and some of her images extended to within 1/2" of the edge when properly centered. When the centering was thrown off, it resulted in a print that could not be properly matted.

I've been using Epson printers since the 2000 and have never heard an explanation of what Epson is doing internally with its math regard print placement and size. Their manuals contain tables showing what appear to be arbitrary "adjustments" to paper size and image adjustment to print borderless, but no explanation. In fact, a few years back, I called Epson pro tech support and directly asked them. They had no explanation either: "Just do what it says on the chart. I don't know why."

As a retired programmer, I could (and have) guessed at a few explanations (their ALU; the dictates of stepper motors and so on.) But the mystery remains...

Thanks for your (usual) patience and courtesy, Roy.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Print tool margins incorrect

2016-05-31 by Roy Harrington

Nothing wrong with being fussy and getting it just right.
I'd still use the Epson definitions but who knows if that'll make a difference.
Note that you can't print to 1/2" from the bottom -- min is at least .556
There's also the issue of how accurately the printer grabs the paper. These big printers
are really geared for roll paper so they can be touchy with sheet feeding. Sometimes
a very slight pressure with your fingers can help the initial feed.

Another idea:
Most paper comes in 11x17 -- print first then trim down to exact dimension.

But anything that works, works.
Roy

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 5:52 PM, tracy@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


... and indeed, it did make a difference. It's still not a match on the top and bottom, but the difference has gone down to 1 1/4 vs 1 5/16 - a 16th of an inch instead of a far more visible 3/16.

Interestingly, changing the top margin on my own paper to match the 1/8 inch of Epson's top margin did not affect the outcome, so apparently it's some combination of the top and bottom margin (.556) at play.

Given all that, and the fact that it -still- was off by 1/16, I've decided that it's actually easier to keep all my custom paper sizes (with 0 borders all the way around) and just adjust the top margin in PrintTool.

I get an exact match, top and bottom, by adding 0.19 to the current top setting. That's really pretty easy, for the math adverse, since it's just adding 0.2, and subtracting 0.01.

So: if the top margin shown on center is, say 1.29, then adding 0.2 = 1.49, and taking out 0.01 yields 1.48.

That is, by the way, approximately 3/16 of an inch.

At least for me, running El Capitan, PrintTool, Epson's driver and sheet feeding with 0,0,0,0 margins, this technique produces exactly balanced top/bottom margins.

Finally, as to "why so fussy?" (in case any lurkers are wondering) it's this: my client specified 11x14 paper, and some of her images extended to within 1/2" of the edge when properly centered. When the centering was thrown off, it resulted in a print that could not be properly matted.

I've been using Epson printers since the 2000 and have never heard an explanation of what Epson is doing internally with its math regard print placement and size. Their manuals contain tables showing what appear to be arbitrary "adjustments" to paper size and image adjustment to print borderless, but no explanation. In fact, a few years back, I called Epson pro tech support and directly asked them. They had no explanation either: "Just do what it says on the chart. I don't know why.";

As a retired programmer, I could (and have) guessed at a few explanations (their ALU; the dictates of stepper motors and so on.) But the mystery remains...

Thanks for your (usual) patience and courtesy, Roy.





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