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Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

2017-02-22 by ian@...

Please bare with me here but I need to explain something.


Since asking a friend to print some images for me through his ColorByte ImagePrint software with his R3880, compared to his, my prints through the ABW driver and my R3880 always seemed be warmer especially in the lighter tones.


The best way I can describe it is as though its got a slight warm tone applied to it.


Not been able to justify the £700 for ImagePrint, I was advised to tryout QTR. Having spent aboyt 5 solid days with it, I have learnt an awful lot but don't seem to have mastered my problem.


When you create and Linearize a curve, is this just to get a straighter L line or is it supposed to also neutralize the warmish greys I seem to be getting.


Before I call it a day, if someone could explain it or advise I would be highly grateful.


Ian

Re: Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

2017-02-22 by jeff.grant@...

Indeed, it's just sorting out linearity. RIPs that I have used all have a method to linearize. QTR is pretty easy on that score.

As I understand it, warmth comes from the paper and the inkset, and K3 neutral produces a warm tone. Brian has far more experience than me on the subject.

Re: Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

2017-02-22 by brian_downunda@...

Ian

As Jeff pointed out in another reply, linearisation won't affect the perceived warmth of the print. Linearisation affects the tonality of the print, i.e. the lightness and darkness, rather than the toning, i.e. the warmth or coolness or other colour cast.

Linearisation is about calibrating the QTR curve to a known standard for your printer / ink / paper combination, so that the lightness and darkness of your prints will be consistent with that standard. [There is longer story about all that, but it's not relevant to your current question.]

I'm not sure whether you're on Win or OS X, but in either case it is possible to look at the underlying structure of the QTR curve in 'curve view'. In Win you right click on the name of the curve specified at curve 1 under curve setup. I think in OS X you just double click on the curve in question in the Finder. What you will see is that the curve mainly uses the three black inks - K, LK, LLK plus a little of the colour inks as toning inks. It does this because the three black inks are naturally warm, and if you want a neutral print you have to add in small amounts of the colour inks to neutralise the warmth.

You can see this my trying out the warm curve. If you look at it in curve view you'll see that it uses none of the toning inks, so the warmth from that curve is just that of the three blacks.

So to change the warmth of the print in a given QTR curve you need to vary the small amounts of the toning inks. This is actually quite tricky to get right and isn't something that I've tried to master. Instead, what I do is what I suggested to you in another thread, and that is to specify the so-called neutral curve as curve 1 in QTR and the cool curve as curve 2, and in the curve blending area set the neutral curve at 80-80% and the cool curve at 15-20%. This is a rough approximation and requires some trial and error and educated guesswork, but I think it's good enough.

I only do this when the selected people that I print for want a more neutral print than the slightly warm ones that you get from the so-called neutral curve or Piezography Special Edition. Personally I don't mind it. It's less warm than the Piezography Special Edition inks that I also use in another printer.

I too have been tempted by Imageprint, but $AUD1500 (with freight and taxes) is a heck of a lot of money just the be able to easily tweak and soft-proof the toning of the print. I just can't stand the pain in my hip pocket nerve, esp as a lot of my B&W printing uses Piezography inks and so has to be done via QTR anyway. I can do most of what I want with QTR.

I hope that's clearer.

B.

---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <ian@...> wrote :

Please bare with me here but I need to explain something.


Since asking a friend to print some images for me through his ColorByte ImagePrint software with his R3880, compared to his, my prints through the ABW driver and my R3880 always seemed be warmer especially in the lighter tones.


The best way I can describe it is as though its got a slight warm tone applied to it.


Not been able to justify the £700 for ImagePrint, I was advised to tryout QTR. Having spent aboyt 5 solid days with it, I have learnt an awful lot but don't seem to have mastered my problem.


When you create and Linearize a curve, is this just to get a straighter L line or is it supposed to also neutralize the warmish greys I seem to be getting.


Before I call it a day, if someone could explain it or advise I would be highly grateful.


Ian

Re: Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

2017-02-22 by ian@...

Thanks Brian

This may seem a dumb question but here goes :-)

To make a custom warm and cool curve to use in your example, do I just do the same procedure as I do when making a neutral curve which is starting out with one of the respective raw curves shipped with QTR

Re: Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

2017-02-23 by brian_downunda@...

I'm not sure I understand precisely what you want to do. Rather than than write a long post trying to guess, perhaps spell out in some detail what you mean.


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <ian@...> wrote :

Thanks Brian

This may seem a dumb question but here goes :-)

To make a custom warm and cool curve to use in your example, do I just do the same procedure as I do when making a neutral curve which is starting out with one of the respective raw curves shipped with QTR

Re: Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

2017-02-23 by ian@...

Brian.

Having thought about my question, I think I have managed to figure it out.

Just to return to your reply earlier on about the warm greys..

I am looking at the EnhancedMatte Neutral Descriptor file and I am guessing that these lines are referring to what coloured inks are been used.

So in the case of Enhanced Matte Neutral, we are still using, Cyan,Light Cyan,Magenta,Light Magenta

Have I got this right ?

UCmk-EEnhMatte-neut
#
# Toner Partition Information
#
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=2
TONER_INK_1=C
TONER_VAL_1=100
TONER_INK_2=LC
TONER_VAL_2=30


N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=2
TONER_2_INK_1=M
TONER_2_VAL_1=100
TONER_2_INK_2=LM
TONER_2_VAL_2=25

Re: Will Linearizing A Curve Remove The Warm Greys I Seem To Be Getting

2017-02-23 by brian_downunda@...

I think that's right, but if you're going to tackle the issue this way then someone else is going to have to help you. I haven't tried changing these parameters. As I said in an earlier post, doing that is tricky unless you really understand which ones to change and how much.


---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <ian@...> wrote :

Brian.

Having thought about my question, I think I have managed to figure it out.

Just to return to your reply earlier on about the warm greys..

I am looking at the EnhancedMatte Neutral Descriptor file and I am guessing that these lines are referring to what coloured inks are been used.

So in the case of Enhanced Matte Neutral, we are still using, Cyan,Light Cyan,Magenta,Light Magenta

Have I got this right ?

UCmk-EEnhMatte-neut
#
# Toner Partition Information
#
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=2
TONER_INK_1=C
TONER_VAL_1=100
TONER_INK_2=LC
TONER_VAL_2=30


N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=2
TONER_2_INK_1=M
TONER_2_VAL_1=100
TONER_2_INK_2=LM
TONER_2_VAL_2=25

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