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Epson Ultrachrom HD BW ink tone

Epson Ultrachrom HD BW ink tone

2018-02-22 by nigglefish@...

I was wondering if anyone has had experience printing with just the MK, LK and LLK of the Ultrachrome HD (not HDR) ink set using Quadtone RIP. In particular, what print tones are achieved using just these inks on various matte papers? I assume a warm tone as they are used in the UCmk-EnhMatte-warm curves for the P600/P800, but I was wondering if anyone can give an indication of how warm, either through meassurement or subjectively, and whether they make a pleasing tonal range together.


I am thinking of draining some large format carts to use in the much cheaper Epson 1430. Does anyone have any experience or feedback about using these inks in a 1.5pl Claria printer? I notice that none of the printers that come with Ultrachrome HD inks have nozzles this small.


This printer has 6 channels, so I was thinking 2 channels of each ink. Unless I get feedback that this will be very warm (I don't mind 'quite' warm, but I might mind 'very' warm), in which case I will add an LC and an LM to the mix for more control (I still want 2 MKs for black boost and smoothness). Any feedback on these proposals before I splash out on expensive large format carts?


Thanks in advance, and to Roy and the community for all the wonderful tools, advice and hard work!

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Epson Ultrachrom HD BW ink tone

2018-02-22 by Walker Blackwell

It’s a green brown warm tone. Epson LK and LLK are not pure carbon though.

It works in 1430 yes.

Best,
Walker
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On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:09 AM nigglefish@... [QuadtoneRIP] <;QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has had experience printing with just the MK, LK and LLK of the Ultrachrome HD (not HDR) ink set using Quadtone RIP. In particular, what print tones are achieved using just these inks on various matte papers? I assume a warm tone as they are used in the UCmk-EnhMatte-warm curves for the P600/P800, but I was wondering if anyone can give an indication of how warm, either through meassurement or subjectively, and whether they make a pleasing tonal range together.


I am thinking of draining some large format carts to use in the much cheaper Epson 1430. Does anyone have any experience or feedback about using these inks in a 1.5pl Claria printer? I notice that none of the printers that come with Ultrachrome HD inks have nozzles this small.


This printer has 6 channels, so I was thinking 2 channels of each ink. Unless I get feedback that this will be very warm (I don't mind ';quite' warm, but I might mind 'very' warm), in which case I will add an LC and an LM to the mix for more control (I still want 2 MKs for black boost and smoothness). Any feedback on these proposals before I splash out on expensive large format carts?


Thanks in advance, and to Roy and the community for all the wonderful tools, advice and hard work!

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Epson Ultrachrom HD BW ink tone

2018-02-22 by Roy Harrington

As mentioned the Epson inks are warm. I'm not sure how you can get other's opinion of how warm.
Personally I think its a bit too yellow a warm -- I prefer a more reddish warm. The newer UC's are
more neutral than before. If you are going to the trouble of complete customizing you ought to
also check out Paul Roark (www.paulroark.com) for his Eboni versions which are also more neutral.

Roy

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:59 AM, Walker Blackwell forums@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


It’s a green brown warm tone. Epson LK and LLK are not pure carbon though.

It works in 1430 yes.

Best,
Walker
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:09 AM nigglefish@yahoo.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has had experience printing with just the MK, LK and LLK of the Ultrachrome HD (not HDR) ink set using Quadtone RIP. In particular, what print tones are achieved using just these inks on various matte papers? I assume a warm tone as they are used in the UCmk-EnhMatte-warm curves for the P600/P800, but I was wondering if anyone can give an indication of how warm, either through meassurement or subjectively, and whether they make a pleasing tonal range together.


I am thinking of draining some large format carts to use in the much cheaper Epson 1430. Does anyone have any experience or feedback about using these inks in a 1.5pl Claria printer? I notice that none of the printers that come with Ultrachrome HD inks have nozzles this small.


This printer has 6 channels, so I was thinking 2 channels of each ink. Unless I get feedback that this will be very warm (I don't mind 'quite' warm, but I might mind 'very' warm), in which case I will add an LC and an LM to the mix for more control (I still want 2 MKs for black boost and smoothness). Any feedback on these proposals before I splash out on expensive large format carts?


Thanks in advance, and to Roy and the community for all the wonderful tools, advice and hard work!






--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Epson Ultrachrom HD BW ink tone

2018-02-22 by Paul Roark

I concur with Walker.

Don't worry about the nozzle size. All of the pigments are very small particles.

I think the rather too-green warm tone is what I see as the main problem for good B&W printing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 3:59 AM, Walker Blackwell forums@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It’s a green brown warm tone. Epson LK and LLK are not pure carbon though.

It works in 1430 yes.

Best,
Walker

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:09 AM nigglefish@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has had experience printing with just the MK, LK and LLK of the Ultrachrome HD (not HDR) ink set using Quadtone RIP. In particular, what print tones are achieved using just these inks on various matte papers? I assume a warm tone as they are used in the UCmk-EnhMatte-warm curves for the P600/P800, but I was wondering if anyone can give an indication of how warm, either through meassurement or subjectively, and whether they make a pleasing tonal range together.


I am thinking of draining some large format carts to use in the much cheaper Epson 1430. Does anyone have any experience or feedback about using these inks in a 1.5pl Claria printer? I notice that none of the printers that come with Ultrachrome HD inks have nozzles this small.


This printer has 6 channels, so I was thinking 2 channels of each ink. Unless I get feedback that this will be very warm (I don't mind 'quite' warm, but I might mind 'very' warm), in which case I will add an LC and an LM to the mix for more control (I still want 2 MKs for black boost and smoothness). Any feedback on these proposals before I splash out on expensive large format carts?


Thanks in advance, and to Roy and the community for all the wonderful tools, advice and hard work!


Re: Epson Ultrachrom HD BW ink tone

2018-02-22 by nigglefish@...

Wow, three of my most respected names in the field! I shouldn't be surprised, three of the most helpful and generous with their time too. Thanks.

I am running a setup almost identical to Paul's variable tone Eboni at the moment (only I have two MKs) and the prints look amazing to me (as always, my very modest skill as a photographer being the limiting factor). I had a bit of trouble last time I ordered from Ink Supply so I thought I would do my usual public brainstorming before launching into my next setup. Thanks for all your feedback. 'Green', doesn't sound great :)

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Epson Ultrachrom HD BW ink tone

2018-02-23 by Paul Roark

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​...


I am running a setup almost identical to Paul's variable tone Eboni at the moment (only I have two MKs)

​I also use 2 MK's. That's the only way to reach the highest dmax with Arches watercolor paper.​

and the prints look amazing to me (as always, my very modest skill as a photographer being the limiting factor).


I had a bit of trouble last time I ordered from Ink Supply so I thought I would do my usual public brainstorming before launching into my next setup. Thanks for all your feedback. 'Green', doesn't sound great :)


​No, greenish B&W is not something I like. I prefer the 100% carbon from MIS/Inksupply​, properly toned neutral usually.

I might add, however, that for an MK or PK, adding mostly (or exclusively in smaller amounts) cyan as a toner for the carbon makes some sense because it is usually much more lightfast than magenta. Looking just at the PK, a cyan-tinted carbon will can look darker than 100% carbon PK, particularly in warm indoor lighting. (At one point I made a PK with a very high dmax using fully 40% mostly cyan toner.) When it's just in only the deep shadows, the cyan, which will give a greenish hue, is not very visible. In short, what Epson did makes sense. Their LK and LLK, however, need to be toned with more magenta to counteract the greenish hue. In a color inkset, it just becomes part of the color balancing step. Again and particularly for B&W, I'd rather just start with carbon, but if the Epson pigments were all that was available, a one-solution toner could be made to pull it neutral.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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