QTR-Quadtone RIP

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I think your problem with neutrality is your choice of 2 cool curves 
rather than 1 warm and 1 cool.  This will result in a much more 
neutral tonal range.

The bronzing is not QTR's fault.  It is ink used by the 2200, the 
way the paper absorbs it and the way the 2200 puts ink onto the 
paper.  As far as I know, the only way to deal with bronzing is to 
apply a coating that will even out the reflectance values of the 
paper or simply change to a more matte surface paper.

Best regards,
Randy

Bernie,

I don't have QTR in front of me, but I recall that it requires your paper profile to always be 
set to enhanced matte and color space set to "same as source".    If you are specifying the 
lustre media profile, you may be introducing shifts.  I hope I'm remembering that properly!




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...> wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> I'm not very pleased with the neutrality (and bronzing) of my black and
> white prints using QTR RIP / Epson 2100 / Ilford Smooth Pearl paper.
>  
> Does anybody have any curves that might help or any other advice. The
> settings I use in QTR Rip are:-
>  
> Media Type: Premium Luster Photo Paper
> Curves: UCpk-EPPremSemiGloss-cool 50 UCpk-EPPremSemiGloss-cool
>  
> Tried a few of the other built in curves, but the above seems to be the
> best.
>  
> Any help appreciated.
>  
> Thanks,
> Bernie
>  
> 
> -- 
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Bernie,

We should back up a little.  I'm running QTR through Photoshop CS on OSX.  In Pshop I 
select "print with preview", this brings up the first dialog where I select "same as source" 
for the color space and choose my paper size and orientation.  Then click on "print" which 
brings up a second set of dialog boxes.  Among the pull down menus I select the "matte 
paper" paper type and print resolution, then go to another pull down and select "no color 
adjustment, then go to the QTR menu and select QTR's paper profile and the tone settings, 
then finally print.

Does this correlate to your set up at all?

ps, I think I was wrong about the enhanced matte setting, matte seems to the be proper 
option.  


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...> wrote:

> Hi Harv,
>  
> Thanks for the info, but I don't see any way to set the color space in
> QTR. Also there's no Enhanced matt paper, only matte.
>  
> Cheers,
> Bernie
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harv Seeley [mailto:harv@f...] 
> Sent: 24 March 2005 20:25
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100
>  
> 
> Bernie,
> 
> I don't have QTR in front of me, but I recall that it requires your
> paper profile to always be 
> set to enhanced matte and color space set to "same as source".    If you
> are specifying the 
> lustre media profile, you may be introducing shifts.  I hope I'm
> remembering that properly!
> 
>

I'm writing from my work computer which doesn't have QTR installed, hopefully someone 
else will kick in on  this and give more info.  

Anyway, I would guess that you're using a Windows machine, so I'm going to be limited 
help from this point on because my knowledge does not extend to Windows in any 
meaningful way.

I think I had to "create" a Quad2200 printer device in my printer setup utility, or perhaps 
QTR did that by itself, I don't recall.

Within the first dialog "print with preview/page setup", there is a pull down menu that 
allows me to select either the Epson 2200 printer or the Quad2200 printer device.  When 
the Quad2200 
is selected, new options become available in the "print" dialogs.

Make sure the "more options" button is checked in the "print with preview" dialog, and 
then you should be able to see the "color management" dialog.  This is where you should 
find the color space options.  This where you would set the 'print space' to "same as 
source".







--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...> wrote:
> Harv,
>  
> I've been using QImage to print colour and QTR for black and white.
>  
> I just used PS CS to try out your suggestions, but it doesn't appear to
> work the same way as yours.
>  
> 1.	The print preview dialog doesn't have a color space option
> 2.	When I click on Proceed, I just get the Epson driver dialog,
> there's no menu for QTR
>  
> Sounds like your QTR is more integrated with Photoshop than mine for
> some reason, I always use QTR as a standalone program.
>  
> Thanks anyway,
> Bernie
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harv Seeley [mailto:harv@f...] 
> Sent: 25 March 2005 13:41
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100
>  
> 
> Bernie,
> 
> We should back up a little.  I'm running QTR through Photoshop CS on
> OSX.  In Pshop I 
> select "print with preview", this brings up the first dialog where I
> select "same as source" 
> for the color space and choose my paper size and orientation.  Then
> click on "print" which 
> brings up a second set of dialog boxes.  Among the pull down menus I
> select the "matte 
> paper" paper type and print resolution, then go to another pull down and
> select "no color 
> adjustment, then go to the QTR menu and select QTR's paper profile and
> the tone settings, 
> then finally print.
> 
> Does this correlate to your set up at all?
> 
> ps, I think I was wrong about the enhanced matte setting, matte seems to
> the be proper 
> option.  
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Harv,
> >  
> > Thanks for the info, but I don't see any way to set the color space in
> > QTR. Also there's no Enhanced matt paper, only matte.
> >  
> > Cheers,
> > Bernie
> >  
> >  
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Harv Seeley [mailto:harv@f...] 
> > Sent: 24 March 2005 20:25
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100
> >  
> > 
> > Bernie,
> > 
> > I don't have QTR in front of me, but I recall that it requires your
> > paper profile to always be 
> > set to enhanced matte and color space set to "same as source".    If
> you
> > are specifying the 
> > lustre media profile, you may be introducing shifts.  I hope I'm
> > remembering that properly!
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005

I'm the one who wrote the windows version of the QuadProfile program. 
With the previous version of Quadprofile it was impossible to control 
the tone of the black ink. You could only neutralize the Light Black 
using light cyan and light magenta inks.

Since 2.2 it's been possible to also neutralize the black ink using cyan 
and magenta, but I don't think anybody has taken advantage of this 
feature yet and created profiles which are completely neutral in the 
shadows. The Epson PK ink is very warm, and I think any profile created 
with the earlier version would be warm at least in the shadows.

I could help you create a new profile, but I use the MIS 7600 
Ultrachrome replacement inks in my 2100 and their PK responds 
differently than the Epson one. Any profile I create with this inkset 
may not work for you. I could still make an attempt of course...

Both issues can be solved by using the UT7 inkset with MIS-PKN ink and 
Gloss Optimizer. This will give you totally neutral prints with no 
bronzing on luster papers. I have profiles for Epson Premium Semigloss 
and Ilford Smooth Pearl.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> I guess my main problem (other than bronzing which by all accounts is 
> something I have to live with on Luster paper), is that the prints 
> aren\ufffdt neutral, they are slightly too warm, even using the 
> UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool curves, which is why my original question made 
> a request for some improved curves. I\ufffdve still to experiment with some 
> other built-in curves or a combination of \ufffdNone\ufffd and the 
> UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool.

If the Epson PK ink is warm, that may explain the problem. I've just
purchased the Epson 2100, getting good colour results on Ilford Luster
paper and have just invested in a couple of full sets of Epson inks, so
i'm loathe to switch inks at this stage.

I'd be interested to learn more about the UT7 / MIS-PKN inks etc.. - I'm
afraid those terms mean nothing to me!!

I'm confused to your references to profiles. I see no reference in QTR
GUI to profiles, only to curves - even if had a new profile, I wouldn't
know what to do with it!! I use the appropriate printer profile in
QImage for colour printing which as I say, gives good results.

Cheers,
Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Staver [mailto:daniel@...] 
Sent: 25 March 2005 16:30
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: [Quadtone RIP] Curves for Epson 2200/2100


I'm the one who wrote the windows version of the QuadProfile program. 
With the previous version of Quadprofile it was impossible to control 
the tone of the black ink. You could only neutralize the Light Black 
using light cyan and light magenta inks.

Since 2.2 it's been possible to also neutralize the black ink using cyan

and magenta, but I don't think anybody has taken advantage of this 
feature yet and created profiles which are completely neutral in the 
shadows. The Epson PK ink is very warm, and I think any profile created 
with the earlier version would be warm at least in the shadows.

I could help you create a new profile, but I use the MIS 7600 
Ultrachrome replacement inks in my 2100 and their PK responds 
differently than the Epson one. Any profile I create with this inkset 
may not work for you. I could still make an attempt of course...

Both issues can be solved by using the UT7 inkset with MIS-PKN ink and 
Gloss Optimizer. This will give you totally neutral prints with no 
bronzing on luster papers. I have profiles for Epson Premium Semigloss 
and Ilford Smooth Pearl.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> I guess my main problem (other than bronzing which by all accounts is 
> something I have to live with on Luster paper), is that the prints 
> aren’t neutral, they are slightly too warm, even using the 
> UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool curves, which is why my original question
made 
> a request for some improved curves. I’ve still to experiment with some

> other built-in curves or a combination of ‘None’ and the 
> UCpk-EPremSemiGloss-cool.






 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 




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Hi Bernie,

Take a look at this post from Paul yesterday on the DBWTP group:

"Depending on what tones you prefer, you can set up the yellow 
position with the default sepia (slider printing range is slightly 
warm), a second light carbon UT2-LM (prints neutral on Enhanced Matte 
with sliders at 0), or put in gloss optimizer for bronze-less glossy 
printing on Kirkland glossy paper.

See my Readme at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT2-Readme.htm .

Have fun.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com"

Two points there for you -- one is to consider changing out the 
yellow for more neutral printing if your not doing Sepia prints, the 
second is the "favored paper" these days for minimal bronzing seems 
to be the Kirkland Glossy -- and with GLOP in the yellow position and 
Paul's curves, word is that the bronzing is all but non-existent. 
Some say it's completely gone.

But then, you don't have Sepia capability, are on glossy paper 
(rather than semi-glossy/pearl), size is limited to 8X10 unless the 
groundswell gets big enough to convince Costco to import a larger 
size, and lastly, you MAY have to use GLOP in the yellow position 
(some say no, Paul recommends it).

Hope this helps. Should get you a more neutral print if nothing else 
by changing out the yellow position -- but then, Paul's reference and 
Web page will explain it much better than I can ;>)

All the best,
Richard


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie Raffe" <bernieraffe@a...> 
wrote:
> Hi,
>  
> I'm not very pleased with the neutrality (and bronzing) of my
black 
and
> white prints using QTR RIP / Epson 2100 / Ilford Smooth Pearl paper.
>  
> Does anybody have any curves that might help or any other advice. 
The
> settings I use in QTR Rip are:-
>  
> Media Type: Premium Luster Photo Paper
> Curves: UCpk-EPPremSemiGloss-cool 50 UCpk-EPPremSemiGloss-cool
>  
> Tried a few of the other built in curves, but the above seems to be 
the
> best.
>  
> Any help appreciated.
>  
> Thanks,
> Bernie
>  
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 
23/03/2005

Sorry, I mean 'curve' when I say 'profile'. People sort of get confused 
no matter which terms we use. Some people expect something called a 
'curve' to be a photoshop curve while others expect a 'profile' to mean 
an ICC-profile only.

All the Epson black inks are warm, but the PK particularly so. The Epson 
MK ink isn't as warm so this tends to be less of a problem with matte 
curves. Like I said, I think the problem can be fixed by creating new 
curves for QTR using the latest version fo Quadprofile where 
neutralizing the black with other inks is supported.

The MIS UT7 inkset is a dedicated grayscale inkset with toner inks that 
allow you to make prints ranging from cool neutral to strong sepia.

http://www.inksupply.com/ut7_2200.cfm
http://www.inksupply.com/ut7comments.cfm

MIS-PKN is a Photo black ink designed to be neutral in tone and to give 
great DMAX on glossy and luster papers:
http://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm

The MIS Gloss Optimizer is basically a coating filled in a catridge. 
It's used to eliminate bronzing and can be found here:
http://www.inksupply.com/r800ink_org.cfm

To eliminate bronzing without switching inksets you can try to spray 
with PremierArt Print Shield. You can find it on this page:
http://www.inksupply.com/accessory.cfm

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no


Bernie Raffe wrote:

> If the Epson PK ink is warm, that may explain the problem. I've just
> purchased the Epson 2100, getting good colour results on Ilford Luster
> paper and have just invested in a couple of full sets of Epson inks, so
> i'm loathe to switch inks at this stage.
> 
> I'd be interested to learn more about the UT7 / MIS-PKN inks etc.. - I'm
> afraid those terms mean nothing to me!!
> 
> I'm confused to your references to profiles. I see no reference in QTR
> GUI to profiles, only to curves - even if had a new profile, I wouldn't
> know what to do with it!! I use the appropriate printer profile in
> QImage for colour printing which as I say, gives good results.