QTR-Quadtone RIP

Awhile ago I was able to modify Paul Roark's HPR qidf files using the
sliders to get good linearization.  Since then I have switched the GL
position to the Y with generous help from Carl Schofield and put
new\inks in a bulk feedsystem.  The curves no longer work.

I therefore tried to start afresh with the 3MK-Dmax_test and 3MK-start
files.

Using amy Pulse Elite  I get an Lmin reading of 17.41 (Dmax of 1.72)
on step 18,, or 85 per cent.  The best Lmin I can get before
linearization has been about 20!  I have tried raising the 100% limits
in the curves and lowering them, but cannot get the blacks that I had
with the 3MK-Dmax_test file.

With the "linearized curves" I get from `show curve', the highlights
are dark as are the darks but the centre part of the plot is light. 
What do I need to do to bring these to a linear plot?


Colin

-- 
Before photography, I looked - now, I see.

www.colinconwayphotography.com

Colin,

I haven't used Kayenta.  Is this an RC paper for PK ink?  If yes,  
then a dmax of 1.72 seems very low.  Could you please post your qidf  
file and tell us what your ink assignments are.

Carl

On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:44 AM, colingruk wrote:

>
>
> Awhile ago I was able to modify Paul Roark's HPR qidf files using the
> sliders to get good linearization.  Since then I have switched the GL
> position to the Y with generous help from Carl Schofield and put
> new\inks in a bulk feedsystem.  The curves no longer work.
>
> I therefore tried to start afresh with the 3MK-Dmax_test and 3MK-start
> files.
>
> Using amy Pulse Elite  I get an Lmin reading of 17.41 (Dmax of 1.72)
> on step 18,, or 85 per cent.  The best Lmin I can get before
> linearization has been about 20!  I have tried raising the 100% limits
> in the curves and lowering them, but cannot get the blacks that I had
> with the 3MK-Dmax_test file.
>
> With the "linearized curves" I get from `show curve', the highlights
> are dark as are the darks but the centre part of the plot is light.
> What do I need to do to bring these to a linear plot?
>
>
> Colin
>
> -- 
> Before photography, I looked - now, I see.
>
> www.colinconwayphotography.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

There is a Kayenta profile in the 1800-3MK folder of QTR.  See if the curve
end points are what you're using.  The dmax I got (17.44 - read after drying
with a hair drier, but not left overnight) is shown in the linearization
tab.  I suggest looking at the curve end points because the math to get
there might be a little confusing.  In retrospect, I could have made it a
lot easier, but it just sort of evolved.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of colingruk
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:45 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Building qidf for Kayenta with PK neutral on Epson
1800

 



Awhile ago I was able to modify Paul Roark's HPR qidf files using the
sliders to get good linearization. Since then I have switched the GL
position to the Y with generous help from Carl Schofield and put
new\inks in a bulk feedsystem. The curves no longer work.

I therefore tried to start afresh with the 3MK-Dmax_test and 3MK-start
files.

Using amy Pulse Elite I get an Lmin reading of 17.41 (Dmax of 1.72)
on step 18,, or 85 per cent. The best Lmin I can get before
linearization has been about 20! I have tried raising the 100% limits
in the curves and lowering them, but cannot get the blacks that I had
with the 3MK-Dmax_test file.

With the "linearized curves" I get from `show curve', the highlights
are dark as are the darks but the centre part of the plot is light. 
What do I need to do to bring these to a linear plot?

Colin

-- 
Before photography, I looked - now, I see.

www.colinconwayphotography.com

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <list@...> wrote:
>
> Colin,
> 
> I haven't used Kayenta.  Is this an RC paper for PK ink?  If yes,  
> then a dmax of 1.72 seems very low.  Could you please post your qidf  
> file and tell us what your ink assignments are.
> 
> Carl
> 
Hi, Carl

Kayenta is a matt paper which I bought stocks of after reading Clayton
Jones article at http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn5.htm .  It is
double sided and I intended it to replace EAM/EEM as a proofing paper
but grew to like it in its own right for its blacks with Eboni.  

I am using three Eboni bottles connected to the MK, PK and Y positions.

The best linearization I can get is with an ink limit slider set at –5
and gamma set at –2.  I started trying curve adjustment layers to
improve things.

The QIDF file contents, stripped of Paul's notes for brevity, are as
follows:

PRINTER=QuadR1800
CURVE_NAME=3MK-Start_Kayenta_Yellow
GRAPH_CURVE=YES
N_OF_INKS=8
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=100
BOOST_K=
LIMIT_MK=70
LIMIT_C=
LIMIT_M=
LIMIT_Y=70
LIMIT_R=
LIMIT_B=
LIMIT_PK=70
LIMIT_GL=
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=0
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
GRAY_SHADOW=10
GRAY_OVERLAP=
GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_SHADOW=10
TONER_GAMMA=1
TONER_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_2_SHADOW=10
TONER_2_GAMMA=1
TONER_2_CURVE=
N_OF_UNUSED=5
UNUSED_INK_1=C
UNUSED_INK_2=M
UNUSED_INK_3=R
UNUSED_INK_4=B
UNUSED_INK_5=GL
CURVE_MK="0;0 25;2.9 50;4 75;7.5 80;9 85;11 90;14 95;23 100;40 ""
CURVE_Y="0;0 5;0 10;0 20;0 50;3 75;9 80;10.5 85;12 90;16 95;24 100;40 ""
CURVE_PK="0;0 10;0 50;3.5 75;8 80;10 85;13 90;17 95;25 100;40 ""
LINEARIZE="95.32 91.06 87.22 82.90 79.00 75.33 72.33 69.38 66.47 63.87
60.80 57.33 52.79 48.33 43.80 38.80 32.80 28.92 26.19 22.34 20.37 "

I am sorry to burden you, but am grateful for your help.


Colin

Colin,

There is a hard line break in the middle of your linearize data  
line.  If I install it as is then only the data up to 63.87 is used.   
Take out the break and it installs properly.  I don't know if the  
break is in your original file, but if it is take it out.

Carl

On Dec 10, 2007, at 2:18 PM, colingruk wrote:

> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <list@...> wrote:
>>
>> Colin,
>>
>> I haven't used Kayenta.  Is this an RC paper for PK ink?  If yes,
>> then a dmax of 1.72 seems very low.  Could you please post your qidf
>> file and tell us what your ink assignments are.
>>
>> Carl
>>
> Hi, Carl
>
> Kayenta is a matt paper which I bought stocks of after reading Clayton
> Jones article at http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn5.htm .  It is
> double sided and I intended it to replace EAM/EEM as a proofing paper
> but grew to like it in its own right for its blacks with Eboni.
>
> I am using three Eboni bottles connected to the MK, PK and Y  
> positions.
>
> The best linearization I can get is with an ink limit slider set at –5
> and gamma set at –2.  I started trying curve adjustment layers to
> improve things.
>
> The QIDF file contents, stripped of Paul's notes for brevity, are as
> follows:
>
> PRINTER=QuadR1800
> CURVE_NAME=3MK-Start_Kayenta_Yellow
> GRAPH_CURVE=YES
> N_OF_INKS=8
> DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=100
> BOOST_K=
> LIMIT_MK=70
> LIMIT_C=
> LIMIT_M=
> LIMIT_Y=70
> LIMIT_R=
> LIMIT_B=
> LIMIT_PK=70
> LIMIT_GL=
> N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=0
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
> GRAY_SHADOW=10
> GRAY_OVERLAP=
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> GRAY_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
> TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_SHADOW=10
> TONER_GAMMA=1
> TONER_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
> TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_2_SHADOW=10
> TONER_2_GAMMA=1
> TONER_2_CURVE=
> N_OF_UNUSED=5
> UNUSED_INK_1=C
> UNUSED_INK_2=M
> UNUSED_INK_3=R
> UNUSED_INK_4=B
> UNUSED_INK_5=GL
> CURVE_MK="0;0 25;2.9 50;4 75;7.5 80;9 85;11 90;14 95;23 100;40 ""
> CURVE_Y="0;0 5;0 10;0 20;0 50;3 75;9 80;10.5 85;12 90;16 95;24  
> 100;40 ""
> CURVE_PK="0;0 10;0 50;3.5 75;8 80;10 85;13 90;17 95;25 100;40 ""
> LINEARIZE="95.32 91.06 87.22 82.90 79.00 75.33 72.33 69.38 66.47 63.87
> 60.80 57.33 52.79 48.33 43.80 38.80 32.80 28.92 26.19 22.34 20.37 "
>
> I am sorry to burden you, but am grateful for your help.
>
>
> Colin
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> There is a Kayenta profile in the 1800-3MK folder of QTR.  See if
the curve
> end points are what you're using.  The dmax I got (17.44 - read
after drying
> with a hair drier, but not left overnight) is shown in the linearization
> tab.  I suggest looking at the curve end points because the math to get
> there might be a little confusing.  In retrospect, I could have made
it a
> lot easier, but it just sort of evolved.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your response.

When I was using spongeless carts and GLOP for the third Eboni
position (Win XP pro) I was unable to get a linear `linearization'.

I now have a bulk ink fed system using the Yellow cart for the third
Eboni position.  I tried using the HPR profile and photoshop curves
and attained good linearity but with Lmin of 18.43. (Dmax =1.69).

I tried your Moab Kayenta Curve, copying and modifying the qidf file
for the position change and a new name.  I copied the QUAD file and
gave it the same name inn front of the extension.  I then changed the
32 figure in the MK curve to 31 and pressed show curve.  I did the
same thing again but changed the 31 back to 32.  This should mean that
the renamed QUAD curve was  updated.  Am I OK up to here?

The linearization plot from your QIDF shows an S curve with a
crossover close to mid grey.

I printed a 21 step grayscale on my Pulse Elite and hair-dryer dried it.

The scanned plot is on the right.  The one on the left is an even
stepped plot from Lmin to Lmax 
95.48	95.48
91.67	91.53
87.86	88.03
84.05	84.34
80.25	80.74
76.44	77.66
72.63	75.36
68.82	73.04
65.01	70.77
61.20	68.24
57.40	65.99
53.59	63.26
49.78	60.21
45.97	56.81
42.16	53.35
38.35	49.06
34.54	45.02
30.74	40.03
26.93	34.21
23.12	27.27
19.31	19.31

A spreadsheet  line graph of these two sets shows that the linearity
extends about twenty per cent of the way feom Lmax after which the
shades are much lighter. Lmin is now 19.31 (Dmax 1.67)

I relinearized using the data in the first plot, rescanned, and the
results were 

95.56	95.56
91.77	91.70
87.97	88.27
84.18	84.64
80.39	81.13
76.60	78.03
72.80	75.80
69.01	73.42
65.22	71.18
61.42	68.80
57.63	66.40
53.84	63.74
50.04	60.86
46.25	57.68
42.46	54.29
38.67	50.12
34.87	45.80
31.08	41.17
27.29	35.42
23.49	28.19
19.70	19.70

Not much change.

I then fiddled with the sliders, because I do not know how to achieve
changes that work in the curve windows.  With a setting of  Gamma =15,
(the maximum) the mid tones are 'sort of' linear but the highlights
and shadows are not and too dark.  

95.48	95.48
91.68	89.68
87.87	84.81
84.07	79.83
80.26	76.10
76.46	72.87
72.65	70.19
68.85	67.24
65.04	64.01
61.24	60.44
57.44	57.22
53.63	53.60
49.83	49.72
46.02	46.27
42.22	42.60
38.41	37.86
34.61	33.01
30.80	28.67
27.00	24.80
23.19	20.91
19.39	19.39

Any further adjustments I make only adjust in the middle and at one
end of the scale upsetting the other.  So, again, I would have to
resort to making Photoshop printing curves 

I should appreciate help from any quarter.

Colin

>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of colingruk
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:45 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Building qidf for Kayenta with PK neutral on
Epson

> 1800
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Awhile ago I was able to modify Paul Roark's HPR qidf files using the
> sliders to get good linearization. Since then I have switched the GL
> position to the Y with generous help from Carl Schofield and put
> new\inks in a bulk feedsystem. The curves no longer work.
> 
> I therefore tried to start afresh with the 3MK-Dmax_test and 3MK-start
> files.
> 
> Using amy Pulse Elite I get an Lmin reading of 17.41 (Dmax of 1.72)
> on step 18,, or 85 per cent. The best Lmin I can get before
> linearization has been about 20! I have tried raising the 100% limits
> in the curves and lowering them, but cannot get the blacks that I had
> with the 3MK-Dmax_test file.
> 
> With the "linearized curves" I get from `show curve', the highlights
> are dark as are the darks but the centre part of the plot is light. 
> What do I need to do to bring these to a linear plot?
> 
> Colin
> 
> -- 
> Before photography, I looked - now, I see.
> 
> www.colinconwayphotography.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>