QTR-Quadtone RIP

I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for 3MK 
printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While I'm 
at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the 
existing color inks.
I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives me 
curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK 
settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia options 
under those papers.
I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose of 
the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK system?  
If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of luck.  I 
don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing in a 
little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?

just use the 'normal' R1800 settings and see what you get...   but why bother with the MIS carbon inks then ??

Bernard

--- On Tue, 7/8/08, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:

From: Steve <dazedgonebye@...>
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] R1800-3MK and Toning
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:22 PM

I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for 3MK 
printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While I'm 
at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the 
existing color inks.
I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives me 
curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK 
settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia options 
under those papers.
I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose of 
the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK system?  
If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of luck.  I 
don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing in a 
little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?



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I'm going with the carbon inks in hopes that I can get a black and 
white print out of my R1800 that I like.  I think I understand that 
the 3MK offers more than just better permanence. 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Bernard Wolf <brooksveriwide@...> 
wrote:
>
> just use the 'normal' R1800 settings and see what you get...   but 
why bother with the MIS carbon inks then ??
> 
> Bernard
> 
> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
> From: Steve <dazedgonebye@...>
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] R1800-3MK and Toning
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:22 PM
> 
> I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for 3MK 
> printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While 
I'm 
> at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the 
> existing color inks.
> I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives me 
> curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK 
> settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia 
options 
> under those papers.
> I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose of 
> the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
> How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK 
system?  
> If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of 
luck.  I 
> don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
> So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing in a 
> little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
__________________________________________________________________
> Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new 
Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/

> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

well if you use the full inkset with the carbon inks it will in all probability not look any better. The idea with the carbon inks and relative profiles is that you are in essence printing 'Black Only' with just the carbon ink.

--- On Thu, 7/10/08, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:

From: Steve <dazedgonebye@...>
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: R1800-3MK and Toning
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 3:44 PM

I'm going with the carbon inks in hopes that I can get a black and 
white print out of my R1800 that I like.  I think I understand that 
the 3MK offers more than just better permanence. 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Bernard Wolf <brooksveriwide@...> 
wrote:
>
> just use the 'normal' R1800 settings and see what you get...  
but 
why bother with the MIS carbon inks then ??
> 
> Bernard
> 
> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
> From: Steve <dazedgonebye@...>
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] R1800-3MK and Toning
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:22 PM
> 
> I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for 3MK 
> printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While 
I'm 
> at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the 
> existing color inks.
> I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives me 
> curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK 
> settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia 
options 
> under those papers.
> I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose of 
> the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
> How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK 
system?  
> If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of 
luck.  I 
> don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
> So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing in a 
> little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
__________________________________________________________________
> Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new 
Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I guess I don't understand that.
Surely the color inks would make up a very small percentage of the 
ink laid down.

In any case.  I'll be busy for some time once the inks get here just 
trying to get a handle on the straight black.  Time to putz with 
things after that.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Bernard Wolf <brooksveriwide@...> 
wrote:
>
> well if you use the full inkset with the carbon inks it will in all 
probability not look any better. The idea with the carbon inks and 
relative profiles is that you are in essence printing 'Black Only' 
with just the carbon ink.
> 
> --- On Thu, 7/10/08, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
> From: Steve <dazedgonebye@...>
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: R1800-3MK and Toning
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 3:44 PM
> 
> I'm going with the carbon inks in hopes that I can get a black and 
> white print out of my R1800 that I like.  I think I understand that 
> the 3MK offers more than just better permanence. 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Bernard Wolf <brooksveriwide@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > just use the 'normal' R1800 settings and see what you get...  
> but 
> why bother with the MIS carbon inks then ??
> > 
> > Bernard
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Steve <dazedgonebye@> wrote:
> > From: Steve <dazedgonebye@>
> > Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] R1800-3MK and Toning
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Received: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 4:22 PM
> > 
> > I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for 
3MK 
> > printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While 
> I'm 
> > at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the 
> > existing color inks.
> > I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives 
me 
> > curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK 
> > settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia 
> options 
> > under those papers.
> > I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose 
of 
> > the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
> > How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK 
> system?  
> > If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of 
> luck.  I 
> > don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
> > So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing in 
a 
> > little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> __________________________________________________________________
> > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the 
new 
> Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
__________________________________________________________________
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. 
Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at 
http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php

> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Anyone with ideas on toning?  Seems like someone knowing how to use 
this program could create curves that add various tones.  I just 
can't figure it out.

I've got my first black and white prints out, and they look very 
nice to me.  

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
>
> I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for 
3MK 
> printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While 
I'm 
> at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the 
> existing color inks.
> I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives 
me 
> curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK 
> settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia 
options 
> under those papers.
> I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose 
of 
> the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
> How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK 
system?  
> If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of 
luck.  I 
> don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
> So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing in 
a 
> little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?
>

Look at some of the existing curves with toning. You might even just 
copy over the LC and LM from the "cold" ones.  

The sepia use Yellow too.  The warm usually don't use any toning, just 
the blacks (for Epson Ultrachromes.)

Best,
Michael

Hi Steve,

It's not hard to add a little color ink to the 3MK setup.  Look at the regular
R1800-UC curves -- there's a black-only and a couple others -- cool and sepia.
They show using 2 color inks on top of black-only.  Do a similar thing with the
3MK curves and you can add whatever you like in tone.

Use the ink limits to adjust how much color ink you want.  I'm guessing that
you can keep the existing linearization if the amount of color is not a lot.

Roy

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
> Anyone with ideas on toning?  Seems like someone knowing how to use
> this program could create curves that add various tones.  I just
> can't figure it out.
>
> I've got my first black and white prints out, and they look very
> nice to me.
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
>>
>> I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for
> 3MK
>> printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While
> I'm
>> at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the
>> existing color inks.
>> I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives
> me
>> curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK
>> settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia
> options
>> under those papers.
>> I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose
> of
>> the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
>> How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK
> system?
>> If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of
> luck.  I
>> don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
>> So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing in
> a
>> little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?
>>
>

I appreciate the help from both of you...but that was just a little 
bit better than Greek to me.
I've played a bit with the program and read the instructions, but 
I'm afraid I'm too dim to see how to accomplish what you suggest.
I guess I'll play a bit more.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
> 
> It's not hard to add a little color ink to the 3MK setup.  Look at 
the regular
> R1800-UC curves -- there's a black-only and a couple others -- 
cool and sepia.
> They show using 2 color inks on top of black-only.  Do a similar 
thing with the
> 3MK curves and you can add whatever you like in tone.
> 
> Use the ink limits to adjust how much color ink you want.  I'm 
guessing that
> you can keep the existing linearization if the amount of color is 
not a lot.
> 
> Roy
> 
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
> > Anyone with ideas on toning?  Seems like someone knowing how to 
use
> > this program could create curves that add various tones.  I just
> > can't figure it out.
> >
> > I've got my first black and white prints out, and they look very
> > nice to me.
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <dazedgonebye@> 
wrote:
> >>
> >> I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for
> > 3MK
> >> printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While
> > I'm
> >> at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the
> >> existing color inks.
> >> I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives
> > me
> >> curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK
> >> settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia
> > options
> >> under those papers.
> >> I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose
> > of
> >> the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
> >> How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK
> > system?
> >> If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of
> > luck.  I
> >> don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
> >> So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing 
in

> > a
> >> little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?
> >>
> >
>

First question:  are you on a PC?  or Mac?

Roy

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
> I appreciate the help from both of you...but that was just a little
> bit better than Greek to me.
> I've played a bit with the program and read the instructions, but
> I'm afraid I'm too dim to see how to accomplish what you suggest.
> I guess I'll play a bit more.
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> It's not hard to add a little color ink to the 3MK setup.  Look at
> the regular
>> R1800-UC curves -- there's a black-only and a couple others --
> cool and sepia.
>> They show using 2 color inks on top of black-only.  Do a similar
> thing with the
>> 3MK curves and you can add whatever you like in tone.
>>
>> Use the ink limits to adjust how much color ink you want.  I'm
> guessing that
>> you can keep the existing linearization if the amount of color is
> not a lot.
>>
>> Roy
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
>> > Anyone with ideas on toning?  Seems like someone knowing how to
> use
>> > this program could create curves that add various tones.  I just
>> > can't figure it out.
>> >
>> > I've got my first black and white prints out, and they look very
>> > nice to me.
>> >
>> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <dazedgonebye@>
> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary for
>> > 3MK
>> >> printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  While
>> > I'm
>> >> at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using the
>> >> existing color inks.
>> >> I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings gives
>> > me
>> >> curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-3MK
>> >> settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia
>> > options
>> >> under those papers.
>> >> I understand using color pigments undermines part of the purpose
>> > of
>> >> the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
>> >> How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK
>> > system?
>> >> If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of
>> > luck.  I
>> >> don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
>> >> So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of dialing
> in
>> > a
>> >> little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging it?
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

PC

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> wrote:
>
> First question:  are you on a PC?  or Mac?
> 
> Roy
> 
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Steve <dazedgonebye@...> wrote:
> > I appreciate the help from both of you...but that was just a 
little
> > bit better than Greek to me.
> > I've played a bit with the program and read the instructions, but
> > I'm afraid I'm too dim to see how to accomplish what you suggest.
> > I guess I'll play a bit more.
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@> 
wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Steve,
> >>
> >> It's not hard to add a little color ink to the 3MK setup.  Look 
at
> > the regular
> >> R1800-UC curves -- there's a black-only and a couple others --
> > cool and sepia.
> >> They show using 2 color inks on top of black-only.  Do a similar
> > thing with the
> >> 3MK curves and you can add whatever you like in tone.
> >>
> >> Use the ink limits to adjust how much color ink you want.  I'm
> > guessing that
> >> you can keep the existing linearization if the amount of color 
is
> > not a lot.
> >>
> >> Roy
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Steve <dazedgonebye@> wrote:
> >> > Anyone with ideas on toning?  Seems like someone knowing how 
to
> > use
> >> > this program could create curves that add various tones.  I 
just
> >> > can't figure it out.
> >> >
> >> > I've got my first black and white prints out, and they look 
very
> >> > nice to me.
> >> >
> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <dazedgonebye@>
> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I have an Epson R1800.  I just purchased the inks necessary 
for
> >> > 3MK
> >> >> printing.  I'm looking forward to better black and white.  
While
> >> > I'm
> >> >> at it though, I'd like to be able to tone those prints using 
the
> >> >> existing color inks.
> >> >> I see that selecting the normal QuadR1800 printer settings 
gives
> >> > me
> >> >> curves for black, cool, and sepia.  Selecting the QuadR1800-
3MK
> >> >> settings gives me many paper options, but no black/cool/sepia
> >> > options
> >> >> under those papers.
> >> >> I understand using color pigments undermines part of the 
purpose
> >> > of
> >> >> the 3MK system, but I'd still like to try it.
> >> >> How do I go about getting toned curves for use with the 3MK
> >> > system?
> >> >> If the answer is to develop my own curves, I guess I'm out of
> >> > luck.  I
> >> >> don't hold out much hope that I'd be able to manage that.
> >> >> So, do such curves exist, or is there some easy way of 
dialing
> > in
> >> > a
> >> >> little red while I'm printing with the 3MK and just winging 
it?

> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>