QTR-Quadtone RIP

I finally got my ut14 inkset in yesterday for my brand new 1400.

I have a few questions about the workflow.

I have some images that I have converted to black and white, and a few
scans. Do I apply the photoshop curves to these, or are these curves
only for Color pics? 

How would I go about using this inkset using the QuadTone RIP? I see
no option for QT14 on the 1400. The pdf explains that QTR has settings
from the 260 (do I use 260 or 260MIS?)

Let say I want to print on a Matte paper using photoshop on color
photo. Do I first convert it to black and white, then apply the curve
I want (downloaded from paul's site). What settings do I use in
photoshop CS3 on the print side (color managed by photoshop, by the
printer?). Then inside the print driver, do I select ICM with no color
adjustments?


The pdf is good, but has alot of gaps in my opinion...that or I am
totally missing something.

I print in color all the time. I have photoshop or qimage manage color
and select my ICC profile, then select ICM in the driver (no color
adjustments)

. linuxgangster


> I finally got my ut14 inkset in yesterday for my brand new 1400.

> I have a few questions about the workflow.

In general, see page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf

The approach I used in that PDF starts easy with the Epson driver.  All you
need are the settings that are shown on the screen grab at the above page.

Then you can work up from there as you learn the medium and inkset options. 

> I have some images that I have converted to black and white, 
> and a few scans. 

>Do I apply the photoshop curves to these, 

No. Ignore those curves until you're making nice prints with a simpler
workflow.  Start with what is provided and then start thinking of the
options that you have available -- for either the Epson driver or QTR rip.

> or are these curves only for Color pics? 

Neither UT14, I, nor QTR (as far as I know) currently supports a color
workflow.  (Although I have a few that I think would be interesting.)

> How would I go about using this inkset using the QuadTone RIP?

Read the tutorial in the QTR download.

> I see no option for QT14 on the 1400.

The workflow that I think is easiest for people to start with is the Epson
driver.  Beyond this I have provided some profiles for a workflow using ICCs
that are made with QTR's "Create ICC RGB."  I have not made QTR rip curves. 

> Let say I want to print on a Matte paper using photoshop 

OK.

> on color photo.

I assume you mean, 'starting with a color photo'.

> Do I first convert it to black and white,

Yes.  There are all sorts of ways to do this.  Again, start simple.

I like to work with high bit depth Tiff files in gray working space Gray
Gamma 2.2 (set in PS's Edit>Color settings).  

> then apply the curve I want (downloaded from paul's site).

I don't recommend you deal with curves at first.  See what a print looks
like with just the driver and a grayscale file.  

The curves I've provided are best used inside (embedded in) ICCs.  This
gives you a linearization step on top that makes those curves useable with
most matte papers.  (You can try them on RGB versions of the grayscale, but
be sure to go through a grayscale step first.)  I have a PDF on embedding
these curves in ICCs.  See 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf  

> What settings do I use in photoshop CS3 on the print side 
>(color managed by photoshop, by the printer?).

If no profile is used, then use "No Color Management" in the Print Preview.

If you're using an ICC, then "Let Photoshop Determine Colors" is used.  The
ICC is loaded in the Printer Profile box.  Use Perceptual with Black Point
compensation checked.

> Then inside the print driver, do I select ICM with no color adjustments?

For matte paper, see page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf
There is a screen grab there.  

Different profiles might use different settings.  Whether it's Color
Controls 2.2 or No Color management is usually indicated at the end of the
profile name.


> The pdf is good, but has alot of gaps in my opinion...
> that or I am totally missing something.


It has a lot of gaps.  I move on quickly.  I sometimes add to these ...
sometimes not.  I'm not using the inkset currently.

I think UT14 is a good inkset with lots of potential and flexibility.  You
have lots of flexibility to customize your work and use different types of
paper without the need to change any inks.  You can easily vary tones, set
up different types of split tones, use glossy or matte paper, and even add
additional ink toners.  I think this type of inkset is a good way to explore
the medium.

Enjoy the journey.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> The workflow that I think is easiest for people to start with is the
> Epson driver. Beyond this I have provided some profiles for a 
> workflow using ICCs that are made with QTR's "Create ICC RGB." I
have > not made  QTR rip curves.

This is very easy to use, and I played with it last night. I did like
the results, but started scratching my head when I wondered how to
warm up the print or cool it down. Where I am a little confused is how
to do this and control each aspect of tone properly.

According to my thinking, if I wanted to "cool" the b&w tone, would I
raise the "Cyan" slider on the epson driver up to achieve this? To
warm it up, do I raise the magenta slider up? What about the yellow?
On matte paper I would think the yellow (glop) would ruin the print.

My other confusion is to how the yellow channel works. I know in the
yellow position there is GLOP. I am aware that I use Ultra Premium
Pres Matte paper at all time (or watercolor), but how do I tell the
driver to use glop/yellow? How is this controlled? I know you said to
start simple, but if I want to use glossy paper then my thinking is I
need to use the ICC profiles (which I have no issue with). But that
again brings me to the point of using the Photoshop curves. Do I just
apply the curve to the grayscale photo, then click on print with No
color adjustments for a glossy print? Or do I use the ICC profile?

Sometimes I over think things and I maybe doing that here. In my mind
I maybe interpreting this all wrong. I have been printing for a very
long time, so in a color world I understand the workflow perfectly. I
have a calibrated monitor, and use ICC profiles for every paper I own
(had them made).

> > The workflow that I think is easiest for people to start with is the
> > Epson driver. ...

> This is very easy to use, ...
> ... I wondered how to warm up the print or cool it down. 

> ... if I wanted to "cool" the b&w tone, would I raise the 
> "Cyan" slider on the epson driver up to achieve this? 

The sliders have some control, but I think they are rather ineffective and
often result in poor linearity of the output.  I recommend Photoshop curves,
dropped into ICCs as the best way to control print tones with the Epson
driver.  I've provided some curves for this that should work for most matte
papers. You can see the range of tones these curves cover on page 6 of
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf 

To make the ICCs, see
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf 

Of course, QTR rip could also be used to accomplish the same thing.  It's
just a matter of which workflow you're most comfortable with.

> My other confusion is to how the yellow channel works. 
>I know in the yellow position there is GLOP. I am aware 
> that I use Ultra Premium Pres Matte paper at all time 
> (or watercolor), but how do I tell the driver to use glop/yellow?

For matte papers the Glop is largely irrelevant and not used -- except to
turn on the black ink.  (Actually, I do use it some in the warm curve
because it does warm matte papers a bit.)  In RGB curves in PS, the black
ink is turned on as all the curve approach 100%.  So, you'll see the blue
curve moving sharply toward the black point at that end of the graph.

The Blue curve in the PS curves controls the yellow ink.  You have to think
in complementary colors: Red curve controls cyan ink position, Green -
Magenta, Blue - Yellow.

> if I want to use glossy paper then my thinking is I
> need to use the ICC profiles (which I have no issue with).
> But that again brings me to the point of using the Photoshop curves. 
> Do I just apply the curve to the grayscale photo, then click on 
> print with No color adjustments for a glossy print? Or do I use 
> the ICC profile?

You can apply the curves directly to an RGB version of the grayscale file.
The ICCs are essentially doing this.  When you print a grayscale file with
one of these ICCs, they convert it to RGB and apply the curve.  However, the
ICCs also do some other important things.  They linearize the output and
make the output match the monitor.

> ... I have a calibrated monitor, and use ICC profiles for every paper ...

Being able to make your own ICCs is a real plus.  Once you've made a few
with QTR, you'll find they are very easy.  It makes an excellent workflow.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > > The workflow that I think is easiest for people to start with is the
> > > Epson driver. ...
> 
> > This is very easy to use, ...
> > ... I wondered how to warm up the print or cool it down. 
> 
> > ... if I wanted to "cool" the b&w tone, would I raise the 
> > "Cyan" slider on the epson driver up to achieve this? 
> 
> The sliders have some control, but I think they are rather
ineffective and
> often result in poor linearity of the output.  I recommend Photoshop
curves,
> dropped into ICCs as the best way to control print tones with the Epson
> driver.  I've provided some curves for this that should work for
most matte
> papers. You can see the range of tones these curves cover on page 6 of
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf 
> 
> To make the ICCs, see
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf 
> 
> Of course, QTR rip could also be used to accomplish the same thing.
 It's
> just a matter of which workflow you're most comfortable with.
> 
> > My other confusion is to how the yellow channel works. 
> >I know in the yellow position there is GLOP. I am aware 
> > that I use Ultra Premium Pres Matte paper at all time 
> > (or watercolor), but how do I tell the driver to use glop/yellow?
> 
> For matte papers the Glop is largely irrelevant and not used --
except to
> turn on the black ink.  (Actually, I do use it some in the warm curve
> because it does warm matte papers a bit.)  In RGB curves in PS, the
black
> ink is turned on as all the curve approach 100%.  So, you'll see the
blue
> curve moving sharply toward the black point at that end of the graph.
> 
> The Blue curve in the PS curves controls the yellow ink.  You have
to think
> in complementary colors: Red curve controls cyan ink position, Green -
> Magenta, Blue - Yellow.
> 
> > if I want to use glossy paper then my thinking is I
> > need to use the ICC profiles (which I have no issue with).
> > But that again brings me to the point of using the Photoshop curves. 
> > Do I just apply the curve to the grayscale photo, then click on 
> > print with No color adjustments for a glossy print? Or do I use 
> > the ICC profile?
> 
> You can apply the curves directly to an RGB version of the grayscale
file.
> The ICCs are essentially doing this.  When you print a grayscale
file with
> one of these ICCs, they convert it to RGB and apply the curve. 
However, the
> ICCs also do some other important things.  They linearize the output and
> make the output match the monitor.
> 
> > ... I have a calibrated monitor, and use ICC profiles for every
paper ...
> 
> Being able to make your own ICCs is a real plus.  Once you've made a few
> with QTR, you'll find they are very easy.  It makes an excellent
workflow.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

I don't have a scanner or any other device to use to measure with,
will I still be able to drop the curves into the ICC's? I have never
heard of doing this so forgive my questions. I actually use some of
the papers that have profiles already.

I could always print the test strip out and send it to someone to
measure for me ;)

>I don't have a scanner or any other device to use to 
> measure with, will I still be able to drop the curves 
> into the ICC's? 

If you have no way to measure the test strips, just either use the existing
ICCs.  You'll probably find that there are existing ones that are close
enough for many papers. 

> I could always print the test strip out and send it to someone 
> to measure for me 

For a modest fee, of course.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I may do that. I tried to insert the curves into the ICC's but it did
not work for me. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I dragged the
photoshop curve you provided along with the ICC provided into my
"QTR-Create-ICC-RGB" application and nothing happened. Should I see a
output file of some sort?



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> >I don't have a scanner or any other device to use to 
> > measure with, will I still be able to drop the curves 
> > into the ICC's? 
> 
> If you have no way to measure the test strips, just either use the
existing

> ICCs.  You'll probably find that there are existing ones that are close
> enough for many papers. 
> 
> > I could always print the test strip out and send it to someone 
> > to measure for me 
> 
> For a modest fee, of course.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

>... I tried to insert the curves into the ICC's but 
> it did not work for me...

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf

Create ICC-RGB is looking for a text file.  The curve must be applied to a
special RGB file in the QTR download. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> See
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf
> 
> Create ICC-RGB is looking for a text file.  The curve must be
applied to a
> special RGB file in the QTR download. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
OK this is where I think I was confused. The ICC's from your website,
do they have the curves already built in? If not, I should be able to
just grab those values out of the ICC's I want to use and then make a
text file from that...correct?

>... The ICC's from your website, 
[ http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf ]
>do they have the curves already built in? 

Yes, the ICCs are ready to go -- built in curves and linearized.  

The Photoshop *.acv curves that are also in the download Zip are the ones
that are in the ICCs.

For new papers or to make ICCs that are custom to your setup (as opposed to
"canned") you can use those curves on an RGB version of a 21-step test file,
print it with No Color Management, and read the print to get the data to
linearize the combination and make a custom ICC with the tone indicated in
the curve name.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com