QTR-Quadtone RIP

Goin fur it. I have a couple questions on this set up to achieve the goal of drop-dead gorgeous B&W prints bigger than 13"x13" from a desk top.
Epson 3800
Ink Republic's 3800 i-refill cart system (can I get this without their ink?)
UT7 or UT3D ?
Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta, or similar luxurious paper.
I am concerned with longevity but want a deep black, smoooooth gray ramp and a neutral color as close to my darkroom silver prints as possible.
It will be up to me get the numbers with QTR but I'm looking for the best starting point with materials. 
The drop-dead gorgeous part will be encouraged with the wine I provide : )
tia, SteveO

Hi Steve, 

Your setup is a mix of my two. I have a 
1)3800 + Ink republic carts + color inks
2)R285 + UT3D

I guess you have to just ask IR and explaining your situation, they're very responsive.

Ink set: that's a hard one. I use the UT3D inks as I had them in stock form old 2100. It's a great set if toning would important to you. By now I've lost interest in that and if I would set a 3800 I would look more to the diluted HP-PK + warm toner setups of Paul Roark: extreme smoothness, with just a bit of toning to achieve dead neutral prints, very good print longevity. With the 3800 you have also sufficient slots to have matte and gloss printing with one setup. Given your own requirements I would expect a setup like that would suit your requirements better.

Joost


 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@...> wrote:

>
> Goin fur it. I have a couple questions on this set up to achieve the goal of drop-dead gorgeous B&W prints bigger than 13"x13" from a desk top.
> Epson 3800
> Ink Republic's 3800 i-refill cart system (can I get this without their ink?)
> UT7 or UT3D ?
> Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta, or similar luxurious paper.
> I am concerned with longevity but want a deep black, smoooooth gray ramp and a neutral color as close to my darkroom silver prints as possible.
> It will be up to me get the numbers with QTR but I'm looking for the best starting point with materials. 
> The drop-dead gorgeous part will be encouraged with the wine I provide : )
> tia, SteveO
>

"steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@...> wrote:
>
>...
> UT7 or UT3D? ...

UT7 (which was basically UT2 upgraded for the 2200) had sepia in it and varies the tone up and down the Lab B (yellow - blue) axis , with no control over the Lab A (red/magenta - green) axis.  UT-3D drops the sepia and adds Lab A control.

The UT2/7 sepia has a lot of MIS yellow and magenta in it.  It's fun to play with, but not very lightfast.  I dropped the mix mostly due to the lack of lightfastness.  It just was not up to the standards I thought we ought to have to avoid the old prejudices against inkjet printing.

The 3D inkset's adding of the Lab A control gives the most control, but it's more difficult to profile due to this new variable.  One ofsetting advantage is that it can be profiled by the ColorVision system for neutral prints.  With the Epson driver, however, getting away from neutral is a problem.  The gray substitution of k3 printers is such that one loses control via PS curves.  QTR is much better if manual control and something other than neutral is wanted.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

"horstenj" <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:

> ... By now I've lost interest in that and if I would set a 3800 I would look more to the diluted HP-PK + warm toner setups of Paul Roark: extreme smoothness, with just a bit of toning to achieve dead neutral prints, very good print longevity. ...


I'm obviously in the same place, but I didn't want to toss in too many variables.  

You can see from my BW-Info index page at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/  that 100% carbon (Eboni + its dilutions) for matte and HP PK for glossy are what I now use.  The HP PK is also very good for neutral matte paper prints.  

On the other hand, there are negatives to the dilute Eboni that a potential user needs to be aware of.  It settles faster than most of the other pigments.  (The blended MIS B&W inks are not all that stable either -- see page 4 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4K+.pdf)  Note that the dilute HP PK does not settle or separate as far as I know.  I use full strength HP PK in a 1400.  So, I do not have long term experience with the dilute HP PK.

I'm probably going to go with a CIS on my 7800 with dilute Eboni because the bottles are so easy to agitate.  The carts are easy to remove, but I'm a bit worried about the longevity of the seals if I pull the carts every session to agitate them.  I will try this option first, however.

I'm also going to be testing whether there is settling in the wide format printer tubing, but have not done that yet.  If there is, I'll implement a return tube modification to facilitate refreshing the ink in the tubes.  This requires a dual midtone mix -- 2 positions of 6%, 13.5% (EZ), and 30%.  This will be a modification that is going to be experimental, so I don't recommend others try it at this point.

At any rate, for the 3800, there are some issues here that may be more than a newbie B&W printer wants to get into.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> "pr_roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> You can see from my BW-Info index page at 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/  that 100% carbon (Eboni + its dilutions) for matte and HP PK for glossy are what I now use.  The HP PK is also very good for neutral matte paper prints.

I read this document (thanks Paul!) and it looks like a good place to start. I will go with the 1/3 LLK + 2/3 base option for the smooooth.
Not being able to see a tone dot is the goal as well. The diluted LC and careful use of LM seems right.
I have read of people keeping a syringe for each ink to agitate when needed, not so sure agitating a loaded 3800 is safe.

> 
> At any rate, for the 3800, there are some issues here that may be more than a newbie B&W printer wants to get into.

I messed with (and up) a few tries with B&W so not a newbie. Vastly inexperienced and dangerous maybe, but not a newbie :)

Thanks for your response and care!
SteveO

"horstenj" <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:
>
I have a 
> 1)3800 + Ink republic carts + color inks
> 2)R285 + UT3D
> 
> I guess you have to just ask IR and explaining your situation, they're very responsive.
> if I would set a 3800 I would look more to the diluted HP-PK + warm toner setups of Paul Roark: extreme smoothness, with just a bit of toning to achieve dead neutral prints, very good print longevity. With the 3800 you have also sufficient slots to have matte and gloss printing with one setup. Given your own requirements I would expect a setup like that would suit your requirements better.

Thanks Joost. I have tried the UT3D and loved the results. The limitations of the printer (R1900) has brought me to this juncture. I was interested in the difference between the UT7 and UT3D but after reading your and Paul's responses I see the longevity of these sets is somewhat questionable. So it looks like I will look further the HP, 4K, Eboni ink set. I do need the ability of fine tuning the color per paper used and the diluted LC and LM may do the trick.

Thanks,
SteveO

"steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@> wrote:

> >
> > Goin fur it. I have a couple questions on this set up to achieve the goal of drop-dead gorgeous B&W prints bigger than 13"x13" from a desk top.
> > Epson 3800
> > Ink Republic's 3800 i-refill cart system (can I get this without their ink?)
> > UT7 or UT3D ?
> > Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta, or similar luxurious paper.
> > I am concerned with longevity but want a deep black, smoooooth gray ramp and a neutral color as close to my darkroom silver prints as possible.
> > It will be up to me get the numbers with QTR but I'm looking for the best starting point with materials. 
> > The drop-dead gorgeous part will be encouraged with the wine I provide : )
> > tia, SteveO
> >
>

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pr_roark

Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 8:26 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: B&W start up

 

 Paul,

I have been using your C6 formula of diluted HP PK in my 1400 since March
without any trouble using inexpensive refillable cartridges. I do think a
CIS would be handier since I am always filling these small cartridges.  

 

Gary Wagner

www.garywagner.com


You can see from my BW-Info index page at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ that 100% carbon (Eboni + its dilutions)
for matte and HP PK for glossy are what I now use. The HP PK is also very
good for neutral matte paper prints. 

On the other hand, there are negatives to the dilute Eboni that a potential
user needs to be aware of. It settles faster than most of the other
pigments. (The blended MIS B&W inks are not all that stable either -- see
page 4 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4K+.pdf) Note that the dilute HP
PK does not settle or separate as far as I know. I use full strength HP PK
in a 1400. So, I do not have long term experience with the dilute HP PK.

I'm probably going to go with a CIS on my 7800 with dilute Eboni because the
bottles are so easy to agitate. The carts are easy to remove, but I'm a bit
worried about the longevity of the seals if I pull the carts every session
to agitate them. I will try this option first, however.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gary, 

 
> I have been using your C6 formula of diluted HP PK in my 
> 1400 since March without any trouble ...

That's good to know.  Are you using what I now call C6b -- with the Edwal wetting agent -- or the original C6 with just Photo Flo?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

C6b with Edwal wetting agent. 

Gary Wagner

www.garywagner.com

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:58 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: B&W start up

 

  

Gary, 

> I have been using your C6 formula of diluted HP PK in my 
> 1400 since March without any trouble ...

That's good to know. Are you using what I now call C6b -- with the Edwal
wetting agent -- or the original C6 with just Photo Flo?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]