All about the Roland Jupiter-series

From: Elhardt@... [mailto:Elhardt@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:03 AM
To: analogue@...
Subject: [AH] Re: was JP-8: now VA vs Analog


controlvoltage@... writes:

>>I am biased though, I appreciate the vibrant, rich, full, lively,
animated, 
colourful tones that only analog can provide...<<

So only real analog can produce vibrant, rich, full, lively, animated and 
colourful tones you say.  That's interesting.  If you think VA synths can't 
sound like the above it is usually the fault of the synthesist, not the 
synthesizer.

modularcharles@... writes:

>>A VA filtersweep, or the shading in of resonance on a modelled resonating 
filter
is to me one of the most confoundingly disappointing and almost embarassing 
experiences imaginable, even on the best of them.  It drives me straight up
a 
tree.  It's simply godawful.<<

Talk about exaggeration.  VA is like 98% of the way there.  98% of a great 
thing is still a great thing.  Even if it gets to within 99.99% of analog, 
there will still be statements like this.  Haven't there been blind sound 
tests done in the past?

Elhardt

From: ModularMoog [mailto:modularmoog@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:37 AM
To: Elhardt@...; analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: was JP-8: now VA vs Analog


on 30/01/01 09:03, Elhardt@... at Elhardt@... wrote:

> Talk about exaggeration.  VA is like 98% of the way there.  98% of a great
> thing is still a great thing.  Even if it gets to within 99.99% of analog,
> there will still be statements like this.  Haven't there been blind sound
> tests done in the past?

Elhardt, I completely _agree_ with all your words... The VA´s compared in...
(thisi is important) _sound_ is _very_ close today... also the controls are
the same (knobs/sliders)... Still I will keep my Jupiter-8 because it _is_ a
killer synth and do sound very special to me.

I do think it will be a better sounding VA JP-8 in a few years than the JP-8
itself... They are going the right direction.

BTW: filter sweeps?... have a listen to _most_ trance stuff made today...
mostly have the kind of filter sweep I like and most of it is done VA.

Regards.
Henning.

From: matrix [mailto:matrixsynth@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 5:52 PM
To: analogue@...
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: was JP-8: now VA vs Analog



> Talk about exaggeration.  VA is like 98% of the way there.  98% of a great
> thing is still a great thing.  Even if it gets to within 99.99% of analog,

It all depends on whether you focus on that 2% or not.  That 2% becomes
about 80% if you focus too hard on it.  It's the subtle differences that
make all the difference in the world.  But...  I personally love all forms
of synthesis.  It's all about sound creation for me.  Different tools for
different tones.  I'll take them all.  The cool thing about VA is that you
can go places you couldn't with traditional analog.  At the price of that
pure analog character you can take digital to an analog level or if you
prefer, analog to a digital level.  Think of the Q.  Uterly amazing where
you can go with one.  I think each has it's place.  Also, a good majority of
analogs sound different from eachother as well.  There are some analogs out
there, albeit DCO based, that a VA could floor.  Think Poly61 compared to a
Virusb.  Which one has more "analog" (note quotes) balls so to speak?  A
Poly61 or a Virusb?

matrix

From: Douglas Robert Stechishin [mailto:umstechi@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:30 PM
To: bunchasynthguys
Subject: Re: [AH] Re: was JP-8: now VA vs Analog



If you ask me, (and you didn't... I know) Virtual Analog synthesis, Analog
modelling synthesis, etc etc should just be called "Digital subtractive
synthesis"... cause that's all it is really.  

An apple is not an orange. Each are round, tasty fruits.  But inside they
are quite different and always will be (genetic splicing aside).

This is not an attempt at being profound, I just don't understand when
people get upset cause their digital synth doesn't sound like an analog
synth.

Keep on rockin' in the free world,
Doug

From: Rhen, Kris [mailto:krhen@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:46 PM
To: analogue@...
Subject: RE: [AH] Re: was JP-8: now VA vs Analog


> If you ask me, (and you didn't... I know) Virtual Analog 
> synthesis, Analog
> modelling synthesis, etc etc should just be called "Digital 
> subtractive synthesis"...cause that's all it is really.  

Isn't that like saying that the sound coming out of your old record player
isn't anything like the sound from your CD player? Sure there are
differences, but there are plenty of similarities, and a pristine album can
come close to sounding the same as a CD...

I've gotta side with the "everything has its place" and "they sound the same
in a mix" croud (though I may be standing alone here in AH? :-)  I have
played a JP8080 alongside analog gear and it does sound 'analog' (see
footnote below) - with the exception of any preconceived notions etc.  I
also don't think that "blame it on the MP3 compression" is a sufficient
excuse to why the samples on the NAME THAT SYNTH post are not necessarily
differentiable IMO.  Sure there're differences between VAs and true analogs,
JUST AS THERE are differences between different true analogs.  

Its like taking several synths and putting out a 50% pulse from each,
unfiltered and unadulterated in any other way... are they going to sound
different?  Maybe just a little (making pinching motions with thumb and
forefinger)... a little usntableness or a little osc artifact, but is it
enough to generate the zeal I'm hearing?  IMO, no (but of course this is
just opinion :-)  Then add the filters... does one filter sound different
than another?  Yeah sure, but they all do, because they're all different,
different slopes, different linearity, different resonance characteristics,
phase, based on design (digital and analog alike).  They're all different
and in circumstances, can all sound alike or all sound entirely different.
IMO something people forget is that they are SYNTHESIZERS after all; YOU
make the sound:

IMO, there isn't an 'analog' sound, just a sound, which is composed of
time-varying frequencies stimulating the cochleae (sp?) inside your head.  I
love analog SYNTHESIS, as well as digital SYNTHESIS (rather than the
sounds), and try and fill my kit with as diverse a set of synthesis
mechanisms as I can afford, because, as I said above, they all have their
place.
(I'm calming down now, thanks for listening :-)
KRIS


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From: Alex Dickey [mailto:Alex@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:00 PM
To: analogue@...
Subject: RE: [AH] Re: was JP-8: now VA vs Analog


flame me, call me an asshole, whatever, but thank god for you guys that they
invented VAs cause if they hadn't you wouldn't have shit to talk about.  

i can't believe how many times this stupid discussion has to happen.  you
continue this and you're no better than the jocks that beat you up in high
school.  

"oh green bay's got the more PURE quarteback..."  

"fuck YOU bro.  the defense of the jets oscillates all over that guy's
frequency..."


nic fitting in a big way,
alex

From: Douglas Robert Stechishin [mailto:umstechi@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:56 PM
To: Rhen, Kris
Cc: analogue@...
Subject: RE: [AH] Re: was JP-8: now VA vs Analog


On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Rhen, Kris wrote:

> > If you ask me, (and you didn't... I know) Virtual Analog 
> > synthesis, Analog
> > modelling synthesis, etc etc should just be called "Digital 
> > subtractive synthesis"...cause that's all it is really.  
> 
> Isn't that like saying that the sound coming out of your old record player
> isn't anything like the sound from your CD player? 

No, not at all.  Using your CD/Vinyl analogy, what I'm saying is that Cd's
shouldn't be called "Virtual Vinyl".  I was making no comment towards
sound whatsoever...  I was making reference to the fact that both types of
machines, digital or analog, employ the technique known as subtractive
synthesis.  One does it in the analog domain, the other in the digital
domain. Make sense now?

> I've gotta side with the "everything has its place" and "they sound the
same
> in a mix" croud (though I may be standing alone here in AH? :-)  

I agree with you here, fully.  I even ditched my Minimoog in favour of a
VA cause I actually preferred the sound (and the voices and
controllability and effects and...)  There, I said it.  Sue me. :)

Doug