SergeModular

The Zero case line was the 200X and the case in particular was the
229X. This is late '90s info - they may have changed the product
line denominations since then.


Regards,

Bill
__________________________________________
Bill Sequeira, PHD - Principal
Axon Hillock - http://www.axonhillock.com/

On Mar 14, 2007, at 7:47 AM, riluttante wrote:

> --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bill Sequeira <bill@...> wrote:
>>
>> If you are performing I would definitely choose mechanical rigidity
>> over anything else - no question. Last thing you want in the middle
>> of a show is to pull a cable and have the entire panel arrangement
>> become undone. Although I am sure the audience would think it was
>> cool, the electronic spaghetti! ;-)
>
> Sure, I passed out once during a gig and the audience thought that
> was cool too, but I
> wouldn't let it happen again ;-)
>
> I'll probably fix the panels into a case with screws using those
> black-plastic-cap-covered
> holes on the sides of the panels.
>
>>
>> When mounting the panels into the Zero I used a layer of rug-gripping
>> rubber (think this is what it is called - a semi-soft web-like
>> rubbery material sold in rolls, used to prevent rugs from slipping on
>> hardwood floors) between the panels - added foam on the top/bottom -
>> when combined with the gripper rubber makes the fit tight enough that
>> the panels won't come off easily even when pulling Pomonas. Gives a
>> tighter fit than just using straight foam, but indeed it is not as
>> strong as mounting directly on the case.
>>
>> The configuration that you propose should work fine - once encased it
>> almost creates a cube. Toyed with that arrangement for a while and
>> then gave up once my system got larger - from the pics I uploaded I
>> divided my Serge system into three parts: a fixed studio (top
>> panels), a semi-portable (Zero), and a travel system, an Animoo with
>> TKB. These days two panels are enough for me.
>
> Maybe I'll reach that level of simplicity some day, but for now the
> 4-panel Serge is there
> because I want to carry a more powerful and complex instrument with
> me than I have so
> far.
>
> Out of curiosity, do you know the product number of your Zero case?
> It's too large for me,
> but I'd be interested to see which series it's from.
>
> For those looking for a case for four panels, the closest thing I
> could find in their catalog
> is the 713X, which is 24x18x8.5 (and thus too large for carry-on,
> but it would hold two
> panels in each shell nicely). I was looking at the 700 series
> because these have separable
> hinges.
>
> http://www.zerocases.com/resources/catalog/downloads/
> catalog_carrying.pdf
> page 20
>
> Thomas
>
>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bill
>> __________________________________________
>> Bill Sequeira, PHD - Principal
>> Axon Hillock - http://www.axonhillock.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2007, at 6:57 PM, riluttante wrote:
>>
>>> --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bill Sequeira <bill@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> LOL!
>>>>
>>>> Never pictured you in the fridge business but it makes sense. ;-)
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for uploading those detailed pictures. Looks
>>> great, just how I imagined.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have tried over the years to design a portable case and the
>>>> showstopper has always been shock absorption. I concluded that I
>>>> could have a lightweight case that required a heavy duty case for
>>>> travel.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I am a little unsure of how stable the solution
>>> of squeezing the panels
>>> into the suitcase with blocks of foam is. After a week or two of
>>> messing around with my
>>> new system, I find that it sometimes requires a LOT of pulling
>>> strength to unplug a banana
>>> cable. I'm a little concerned that with a case vertically mounted
>>> and me frantically pulling
>>> at patch cables during a gig, I'd pull the whole panel out.
>>>
>>> The shock absorption issue makes sense. On the other hand, I've
>>> traveled widely with a
>>> Doepfer A-100 (rack-mounted in one of their flightcases) and an EMS
>>> Synthi A (fixed
>>> inside the typical Synthi briefcase). Both of these synths are hard-
>>> mounted inside their
>>> cases without any shock absorption as far as I can tell, and I've
>>> never had any problems
>>> with them.
>>> I'm tempted to sacrifice shock absorption for stability and have my
>>> panels solidly fixed to
>>> a custom flight case after all.
>>> I guess the point is that I always handle the cases very carefully,
>>> take them in my lap when
>>> riding in a car, always take them with me as carry-on on airplanes
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> I've uploaded two pictures of my four panels arranged the way I'll
>>> be mounting them into a
>>> case. If tightly packed together like this, two panels in each lid,
>>> four of them will actually
>>> fit as carry-on luggage on a plane!
>>> They're in the "Four panels facing each other" album.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess it depends on how you view your system and cases in
>>>> general -
>>>> cases are either for transportation/protection or the case
>>>> becomes an
>>>> inherent part of the instrument. Think both views work
>>>> together, but
>>>> neither one can optimally supplant the other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>> Bill Sequeira, PHD - Principal
>>>> Axon Hillock - http://www.axonhillock.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 29, 2007, at 8:55 PM, darkstr1746@ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> another option would be to contact Maxxline cases in Wilsonville
>>>>> Oregon. they make custom cases for just about every application
>>>>> imaginable. At one time they made me a custom case that housed
>>>>> a PS
>>>>> 6 and four panels complete with wiring harness. the PS was mounted
>>>>> to the bottome of the case and the back cover had recessed
>>>>> telescoping handle and the whole thing had wheels on the back. It
>>>>> was pretty cool. It was also a total pig. The case weighed at
>>>>> least
>>>>> four tijmes that of the panels and the PS combined. It was also
>>>>> more than double the depth of the panels. It looked like a small
>>>>> refrigerator. I really dug it although it was totaly absurd. I
>>>>> used
>>>>> it for about a year. there are no pictures of it. I was too
>>>>> embarassed to take pictures. everyone laughed and i don't blame
>>>>> them.
>>>>> so save your self a bunch of money and just wrap the panels up
>>>>> in a
>>>>> beach towel and carry the PS in a suitcase. You'll be glad you
>>>>> did. LOL
>>>>> john d
>>>>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>>>> From: Bill Sequeira <bill@>
>>>>>> Thank you - will try to upload some more pics in a couple of days
>>>>>> showing how the panels fit together and the side foam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that fixing the panels to the case would create too much
>>>>>> of a
>>>>>> shock transfer risk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, portable in the Serge worlds means
>>>>>> "portable". I
>>>>>> would never think of it as traveling with a briefcase. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even my animoo/tkb combo is substantial once you add psu etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use a plain old canvas suitcase that is slightly bigger than
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Zero when I need to move it, to prevent any unnecessary
>>>>>> scratches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if I was in a traveling band using the Serge, I would
>>>>>> invest in
>>>>>> an ATA case custom designed for the Zero - OR, have one custom
>>>>>> designed to rack mount the panels. I love the look of the Zero
>>>>>> so I
>>>>>> did not entertain that option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>> Bill Sequeira, PHD - Principal
>>>>>> Axon Hillock - http://www.axonhillock.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2007, at 6:34 AM, riluttante wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bill Sequeira <bill@>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is an (older) picture of my system in Kevin Lightner's
>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>>>> under Serge Station
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.synthfool.com/sequeira.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Humble when compared to the Fist of God at its glorious peak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks great
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I designed the stand so that the system could function as a
>>>>>>>> studio
>>>>>>>> system that could be split into a portable 8-panel system in a
>>>>>>>> Zero
>>>>>>>> case if I wanted to travel with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You probably never took the 8-panel system on an airplane
>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since then the system has grown to a total of 16 panels, but
>>>>>>>> ended up
>>>>>>>> creating a mini-system out of a mod'ed animal/TKB, so now the
>>>>>>>> stand
>>>>>>>> is back to supporting 14-panels as in the picture.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Zero case system began its life as a 6-panel. The trick
>>>>>>>> (per
>>>>>>>> Rex's design) was to use thick foam to go around and in-between
>>>>>>>> the 3-
>>>>>>>> panels per side, the foam being a bit wider than the actual
>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>> (but
>>>>>>>> not much) in order to create mechanical tension on the panel
>>>>>>>> sides.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right, that's what he suggested to me too. He'd basically
>>>>>>> squeeze
>>>>>>> the panels in with foam
>>>>>>> on all sides, and have the power harness run below/beside the
>>>>>>> panels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He didn't want to fix the panels to the case directly using
>>>>>>> screws
>>>>>>> etc. because shocks to
>>>>>>> the case would mechanically transfer to the circuit boards that
>>>>>>> way, and presumably cause
>>>>>>> more damage than when the panels are simply held in place by
>>>>>>> blocks
>>>>>>> of foam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I upgraded to 8-panels I did away with the horizontal foam
>>>>>>>> between the modules and added a layer of non-slip rubber
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> panels to both protect and create pressure to keep the
>>>>>>>> panels in
>>>>>>>> tight.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mechanically it works OK as long as you are not attaching a
>>>>>>>> banana
>>>>>>>> cable to your truck's winch, although it is not quite as stable
>>>>>>>> as if
>>>>>>>> you were actually rackmounting the panels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You do have to be careful with the distro cards - if you
>>>>>>>> have too
>>>>>>>> many oscillator panels that have two connectors (instead of the
>>>>>>>> average one) you may require more than two distro cards - I was
>>>>>>>> lucky
>>>>>>>> and my configuration needed exactly two.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can upload more pics if any one is interested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you have a chance, I'd love to see some more detailed pics of
>>>>>>> the "travel" system and of
>>>>>>> how the panels were/are mounted inside the case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Bill Sequeira, PHD - Principal
>>>>>>>> Axon Hillock - http://www.axonhillock.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2007, at 11:19 AM, darkstr1746@ wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not understanding why you can't do four panels in a case
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> the one pictured at the link shown. I had a case like the one
>>>>>>>>> shown. . .hell, that might even be a picture of the system i
>>>>>>>>> had at
>>>>>>>>> one time. It was an elegant solution although six panels was a
>>>>>>>>> little heavy and not all that protable. Four panels in that
>>>>>>>>> style
>>>>>>>>> case should be just the thing. I'm also not understanding the
>>>>>>>>> depth
>>>>>>>>> problem unless your panels were not built with "transit" style
>>>>>>>>> chassis in which case your out of luck. Period. Three panels
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> fit into a popup Gator case with the wiring harness ( if your
>>>>>>>>> clever with mounting screws) but that doesn't solve your four
>>>>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>>>> problem. Keep searching for a Zero. . you'll find one
>>>>>>>>> sooner or
>>>>>>>>> later. . . much later. LOL
>>>>>>>>> kind regards
>>>>>>>>> john duval
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -------------- Original message --------------
>>>>>>>>> From: "riluttante" <riluttante@>
>>>>>>>>> http://home.att.net/~djaux/Image28.gif
>>>>>>>>> That's the only picture I know of too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I spent a lot of time looking at Zero Halliburton specs and
>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>> to Rex at STS about
>>>>>>>>> having my four-panel system mounted inside one of these cases.
>>>>>>>>> My idea was to put two panels in each half (like on the six-
>>>>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>>>> picture, which has three
>>>>>>>>> panels per half), but very few, if any, of these cases have
>>>>>>>>> halves
>>>>>>>>> (shells) of equal depth.
>>>>>>>>> My requirements were to fit the four panels in a case no
>>>>>>>>> larger
>>>>>>>>> than the IATA standards for
>>>>>>>>> airplane carry-on baggage. I expect to travel with my system
>>>>>>>>> regularly, and there's no way
>>>>>>>>> I'm checking it in. We couldn't find a case to fit four panels
>>>>>>>>> without being unnecessarily
>>>>>>>>> large though.
>>>>>>>>> I'd be curious to see what your friend comes up with. I still
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> these Zero Halliburton
>>>>>>>>> cases a very elegant solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, JB <ringmodulator@>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is this what you're after?
>>>>>>>>>> http://home.att.net/~djaux/Image28.gif
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2007/1/25, Rick <echo7even@>:
>>>>>>>>>>> trying to help a friend figure this out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> any pics would be helpful
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> -r
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Bill Sequeira <bill@>
>>>>> Date: January 29, 2007 6:39:25 PM PST
>>>>> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: Looking for pics of serge mounted
>>>>> in Zero case
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you - will try to upload some more pics in a couple of days
>>>>> showing how the panels fit together and the side foam.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that fixing the panels to the case would create too much
>>>>> of a
>>>>> shock transfer risk.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, portable in the Serge worlds means
>>>>> "portable". I
>>>>> would never think of it as traveling with a briefcase. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Even my animoo/tkb combo is substantial once you add psu etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use a plain old canvas suitcase that is slightly bigger than the
>>>>> Zero when I need to move it, to prevent any unnecessary scratches.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if I was in a traveling band using the Serge, I would
>>>>> invest in
>>>>> an ATA case custom designed for the Zero - OR, have one custom
>>>>> designed to rack mount the panels. I love the look of the Zero
>>>>> so I
>>>>> did not entertain that option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>> Bill Sequeira, PHD - Principal
>>>>> Axon Hillock - http://www.axonhillock.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 29, 2007, at 6:34 AM, riluttante wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, Bill Sequeira <bill@> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is an (older) picture of my system in Kevin Lightner's
>>>>>>> site
>>>>>>> under Serge Station
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.synthfool.com/sequeira.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Humble when compared to the Fist of God at its glorious peak.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks great
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I designed the stand so that the system could function as a
>>>>>>> studio
>>>>>>> system that could be split into a portable 8-panel system in a
>>>>>>> Zero
>>>>>>> case if I wanted to travel with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You probably never took the 8-panel system on an airplane though,
>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since then the system has grown to a total of 16 panels, but
>>>>> ended up
>>>>>>> creating a mini-system out of a mod'ed animal/TKB, so now the
>>>>>>> stand
>>>>>>> is back to supporting 14-panels as in the picture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Zero case system began its life as a 6-panel. The trick (per
>>>>>>> Rex's design) was to use thick foam to go around and in-between
>>>>>>> the 3-
>>>>>>> panels per side, the foam being a bit wider than the actual case
>>>>> (but
>>>>>>> not much) in order to create mechanical tension on the panel
>>>>>>> sides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right, that's what he suggested to me too. He'd basically squeeze
>>>>>> the panels in with foam
>>>>>> on all sides, and have the power harness run below/beside the
>>>>> panels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He didn't want to fix the panels to the case directly using
>>>>>> screws
>>>>>> etc. because shocks to
>>>>>> the case would mechanically transfer to the circuit boards that
>>>>>> way, and presumably cause
>>>>>> more damage than when the panels are simply held in place by
>>>>>> blocks
>>>>>> of foam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I upgraded to 8-panels I did away with the horizontal foam
>>>>>>> between the modules and added a layer of non-slip rubber between
>>>>>>> panels to both protect and create pressure to keep the panels in
>>>>>>> tight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mechanically it works OK as long as you are not attaching a
>>>>>>> banana
>>>>>>> cable to your truck's winch, although it is not quite as stable
>>>>> as if
>>>>>>> you were actually rackmounting the panels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You do have to be careful with the distro cards - if you have
>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>> many oscillator panels that have two connectors (instead of the
>>>>>>> average one) you may require more than two distro cards - I was
>>>>> lucky
>>>>>>> and my configuration needed exactly two.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can upload more pics if any one is interested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have a chance, I'd love to see some more detailed pics of
>>>>>> the "travel" system and of
>>>>>> how the panels were/are mounted inside the case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bill Sequeira, PHD - Principal
>>>>>>> Axon Hillock - http://www.axonhillock.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2007, at 11:19 AM, darkstr1746@ wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not understanding why you can't do four panels in a case
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> the one pictured at the link shown. I had a case like the one
>>>>>>>> shown. . .hell, that might even be a picture of the system i
>>>>> had at
>>>>>>>> one time. It was an elegant solution although six panels was a
>>>>>>>> little heavy and not all that protable. Four panels in that
>>>>>>>> style
>>>>>>>> case should be just the thing. I'm also not understanding the
>>>>> depth
>>>>>>>> problem unless your panels were not built with "transit" style
>>>>>>>> chassis in which case your out of luck. Period. Three panels
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> fit into a popup Gator case with the wiring harness ( if your
>>>>>>>> clever with mounting screws) but that doesn't solve your four
>>>>> panel
>>>>>>>> problem. Keep searching for a Zero. . you'll find one sooner or
>>>>>>>> later. . . much later. LOL
>>>>>>>> kind regards
>>>>>>>> john duval
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------- Original message --------------
>>>>>>>> From: "riluttante" <riluttante@>
>>>>>>>> http://home.att.net/~djaux/Image28.gif
>>>>>>>> That's the only picture I know of too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I spent a lot of time looking at Zero Halliburton specs and
>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>> to Rex at STS about
>>>>>>>> having my four-panel system mounted inside one of these cases.
>>>>>>>> My idea was to put two panels in each half (like on the six-
>>>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>>> picture, which has three
>>>>>>>> panels per half), but very few, if any, of these cases have
>>>>>>>> halves
>>>>>>>> (shells) of equal depth.
>>>>>>>> My requirements were to fit the four panels in a case no larger
>>>>>>>> than the IATA standards for
>>>>>>>> airplane carry-on baggage. I expect to travel with my system
>>>>>>>> regularly, and there's no way
>>>>>>>> I'm checking it in. We couldn't find a case to fit four panels
>>>>>>>> without being unnecessarily
>>>>>>>> large though.
>>>>>>>> I'd be curious to see what your friend comes up with. I still
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> these Zero Halliburton
>>>>>>>> cases a very elegant solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, JB <ringmodulator@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is this what you're after?
>>>>>>>>> http://home.att.net/~djaux/Image28.gif
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2007/1/25, Rick <echo7even@>:
>>>>>>>>>> trying to help a friend figure this out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> any pics would be helpful
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>> -r
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
>>> ~-->
>>> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
>>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/QnLolB/TM
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ~->
>>>
>>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/0It09A/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/QnLolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>