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AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction lately

2002-06-12 by Junger Joerg

hm.

there may be another reason why more systems show up recently: a lot of
people go back to digital. with all the sound generation software available
today (max/msp, reactor etc) and very powerful computers going for
relatively cheap. then it's tempting to sell gear that represent a lot of
money and that you feel you will not use anymore. maybe a bit like the
situation in the 80ties.

joerg

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Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction lately

2002-06-12 by John Loffink

Funny, I took exactly the opposite path. The Kurzweil VAST architecture
in the K2X00 and Native Instrument's Reaktor revived my interest in
modular synthesis. VAST has excellent programmability. I once created a
patch that played diatonic scales from the modulation wheel and
sequences from the keyboard. But eventually you hit a brick wall in
resources.

Reaktor is more promising because resources are essentially unlimited as
long as you have CPU processing power. However, version 2.3 broke my
system for 9 months due to an obscure sound card driver problem. Every
software update or OS update or sound card change or CPU upgrade
basically risks something else breaking. The latest I've heard is that
the Pentium IV has a floating point problem when calculating small
values in reverbs and delays. Other stuff: It's difficult to map the
control surface to something that's readily useable and comprehensible.
And doing "chaos" type patches with multiple feedback paths crashes
Reaktor. It just can't handle it no matter how many tweaks or delays
you put in the path to fix it.

On the other hand, I bought a Serge panel from a guy who said he was
going all digital. When I went through the box I found he had only
opened 6-8 of 20 patch cords for his panel. He was not a real power
user, in my opinion. So maybe that's the people you're talking about.

John Loffink
jloffink@...

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Junger Joerg [mailto:Joerg.Junger@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:31 AM
> To: 'SergeModular@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction

lately

>
> hm.
>
> there may be another reason why more systems show up recently: a lot

> people go back to digital. with all the sound generation software
> available
> today (max/msp, reactor etc) and very powerful computers going for
> relatively cheap. then it's tempting to sell gear that represent a lot

> money and that you feel you will not use anymore. maybe a bit like the
> situation in the 80ties.
>
> joerg
>
>

AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction lately

2002-06-12 by Junger Joerg

hm,

sure there are people taking the opposite path (digital -> analog) but
still: with software like super collider (now for free) using a computer is
a very interesting route to go and it is cheaper: buy an ibook with an
internal cd-burner and you're more or less done. and most of this software
made its way into public awareness in the last 2 years. not to forget: it is
de rigeuer to use software synthesis so the followers of fashion that went
and bought analog synths some years ago might sell their gear and buy the
last powerbook (or sony vaio or whatever).

joerg

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AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction lately

2002-06-12 by Junger Joerg

i didn't want to argue against the bad economical situation as a reason for
increased gear sale, instead i tried to come up with more potential
explanations besides that ;).

joerg

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Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by Chris Whitten

In my very humble opinion DSP and Virtual software cannot presently replace
hardware equivalents. As someone said though, they often compliment
extremely well.
I personally don't think that virtual Eq's, reverbs or compressors sound the
same or as good as the hardware items they mimic. On the other hand, if you
can't afford Focusrite Eq or an 1176 why not try the plug in.
Likewise, I've heard some great sounds created on Kyma, Super Collider and
even Reaktor but at the end of the day I don't think you can beat the feel
and unpredictability of the real thing. Of course it's possible to turn at
least two knobs on a Serge module at the same time resulting in all kinds of
unpredictable results. I've yet to find software that does that
successfully.
Two things that can't be understated either.
1. The pride of owning a classic instrument. Have you ever lusted over
anything virtual for more than a couple of days after you've bought it?
2. Soul.
Many 'real' instruments have hidden depths IMO. The gritty sound of some
synths and outboard, yes even the hum or hiss. Again, the unpredictable
nature of the electronics. It all adds character in my opinion. All these
elements that come natural to a system like Serge have to be laboriously
programmed into software.
Although on a slight tangent, a prime example would be the previously
mentioned Kurzweil K2XX's. It never ceases to make me crazy that in order to
add a little envelope release to a sound you have to scroll through a couple
of edit pages and enter more than two values in more than two separate
fields.
I want to make music, not be a computer programmer.
CW

Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by DarkStr717@aol.com

In a message dated 6/12/02 4:32:02 AM, Joerg.Junger@... writes:

<< there may be another reason why more systems show up recently: a lot of
people go back to digital. with all the sound generation software available
today (max/msp, reactor etc) and very powerful computers going for
relatively cheap. >>

Over my dead body!! LMAO!!!!!!
John D

Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by DarkStr717@aol.com

In a message dated 6/12/02 6:43:01 AM, Joerg.Junger@... writes:

<< sure there are people taking the opposite path (digital -> analog) but
still: with software like super collider (now for free) using a computer is
a very interesting route to go and it is cheaper: >>

I for one banished my computer from the studio. I don't find them
interesting... only frustrating. Staring at a computer screen is not my idea
of making music. I realize I'm in the minority and i open myself up to
catcalls of "Ludite". So be it.
I do confess however that when i do have the need to use a computer for
time adjustment ( track placement) i go to a friends house to have it done.
Kind regards
John D

Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by mm123 ah

Blame the economy and the nice weather for the low Serge prices. Now that
summer is here, people are more likely to hang out outside and think less
about buying gear which will keep them indoors. Wait until fall, prices
will pick up. If youre looking to buy, nows a good time. If youre looking
to sell, hold off if you can.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>From: Junger Joerg <Joerg.Junger@...>
>Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>To: "'SergeModular@yahoogroups.com'" <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction lately
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:38:10 +0200
>
>i didn't want to argue against the bad economical situation as a reason for
>increased gear sale, instead i tried to come up with more potential
>explanations besides that ;).
>
>joerg
>
>
>
>
> >>> Rentenanstalt/Swiss Life - Official Partner Expo.02 <<<

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Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by mm123 ah

I agree 100%, especially about the Kurzweils. They are great tools but only
if you have a LOT of patience. Also, I have yet to use a computer which can
handle playback of more than a few virtual instrument tracks without ASIO
crashes.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>From: Chris Whitten <cw.chris@...>
>Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>To: <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction
>lately
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:39:12 +0100
>
>In my very humble opinion DSP and Virtual software cannot presently replace
>hardware equivalents. As someone said though, they often compliment
>extremely well.
>I personally don't think that virtual Eq's, reverbs or compressors sound
>the
>same or as good as the hardware items they mimic. On the other hand, if you
>can't afford Focusrite Eq or an 1176 why not try the plug in.
>Likewise, I've heard some great sounds created on Kyma, Super Collider and
>even Reaktor but at the end of the day I don't think you can beat the feel
>and unpredictability of the real thing. Of course it's possible to turn at
>least two knobs on a Serge module at the same time resulting in all kinds
>of
>unpredictable results. I've yet to find software that does that
>successfully.
>Two things that can't be understated either.
>1. The pride of owning a classic instrument. Have you ever lusted over
>anything virtual for more than a couple of days after you've bought it?
>2. Soul.
>Many 'real' instruments have hidden depths IMO. The gritty sound of some
>synths and outboard, yes even the hum or hiss. Again, the unpredictable
>nature of the electronics. It all adds character in my opinion. All these
>elements that come natural to a system like Serge have to be laboriously
>programmed into software.
>Although on a slight tangent, a prime example would be the previously
>mentioned Kurzweil K2XX's. It never ceases to make me crazy that in order
>to
>add a little envelope release to a sound you have to scroll through a
>couple
>of edit pages and enter more than two values in more than two separate
>fields.
>I want to make music, not be a computer programmer.
>CW
>

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Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by Kirk Degiorgio

nice weather?! LOL!

not all the Serge panels for sale are in the US remember ;-)

KD

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> Blame the economy and the nice weather for the low Serge prices. Now that
> summer is here, people are more likely to hang out outside and think less
> about buying gear which will keep them indoors. Wait until fall, prices
> will pick up. If youre looking to buy, nows a good time. If youre

looking

> to sell, hold off if you can.
>
> >From: Junger Joerg <Joerg.Junger@...>
> >Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> >To: "'SergeModular@yahoogroups.com'" <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction

lately

> >Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:38:10 +0200
> >
> >i didn't want to argue against the bad economical situation as a reason

for

> >increased gear sale, instead i tried to come up with more potential
> >explanations besides that ;).
> >
> >joerg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> Rentenanstalt/Swiss Life - Official Partner Expo.02 <<<
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SergeModular-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by mm123 ah

>nice weather?! LOL!

its true. also, obviously the number of panels available are another
factor. when theres a large supply and a small demand, things like that can
happen.

>
>not all the Serge panels for sale are in the US remember ;-)

where are the others? i thought most of them were in the northern
hemisphere, where the weather is pretty nice right now.

>
>KD
>
>
> > Blame the economy and the nice weather for the low Serge prices. Now
>that
> > summer is here, people are more likely to hang out outside and think
>less
> > about buying gear which will keep them indoors. Wait until fall, prices
> > will pick up. If youre looking to buy, nows a good time. If youre
>looking
> > to sell, hold off if you can.
> >
> > >From: Junger Joerg <Joerg.Junger@...>
> > >Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: "'SergeModular@yahoogroups.com'" <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction
>lately
> > >Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:38:10 +0200
> > >
> > >i didn't want to argue against the bad economical situation as a reason
>for
> > >increased gear sale, instead i tried to come up with more potential
> > >explanations besides that ;).
> > >
> > >joerg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> Rentenanstalt/Swiss Life - Official Partner Expo.02 <<<
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > SergeModular-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Keep on Patchin'!
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>

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Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by Chris Whitten

> where are the others? i thought most of them were in the northern
> hemisphere, where the weather is pretty nice right now.

You've obviously never been to England in the Summer!
But seriously, quite a few of the panels still for sale date back to early
spring if not before.
CW

Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction late

2002-06-12 by mm123 ah

Well, nice weather is relative to not so nice weather you would have seen
over the winter. Cloudy and warm is better for outside activity than cloudy
and snowy. You people flock to your local fish and chips restaurants when
it gets warm, dont you? Such a bizarre place, the UK! ;)

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>From: Chris Whitten <cw.chris@...>
>Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>To: <SergeModular@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: AW: [SergeModular] Re: Alot of serge panels up for auction
>lately
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:08:45 +0100
>
> > where are the others? i thought most of them were in the northern
> > hemisphere, where the weather is pretty nice right now.
>You've obviously never been to England in the Summer!
>But seriously, quite a few of the panels still for sale date back to early
>spring if not before.
>CW
>

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