Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Re: ..Serge future?

2001-04-05 by DarkStr717@aol.com

... Let's see here:
all panels are now being built in Wisconsin. Right now, shop panels have
priority although custom work ordered before the move are also being built.
Getting the entire shop panel line up and running is the first task and
finding qualified assemblers is proving difficult. Rex is training two guys
at the moment. Rex is doing the assembly of custom orders himself. He is
about 20 panels behind but should be starting to catch up next week... that
is full assembly may start next week on the earliest orders.
the issue of knobs has become a major bummer as the old supplier has
basically shipped nothing but garbage to both Grant and Rex and has indicated
that they just really good care less about Rexs' QC complaints. Thus a new
series of panels loosely dubbed the "Wisconsin" series maybe be coming out
soon... the only difference being the knobs. Rex is sending me some demos of
the new knobs to see which ones i want on my last custom order. What I'm
saying is... when the current supply of black knobs runs out there will be
newer.. longer , lower, wider ( LMAO!!) knobs.
Rex is in this for the long haul..this is his life and with that in mind he
has decided to go easy on the custom panel scene because he has to build them
and he also wants a life... so he can go down to the southside and play some
blues and just kinda have a life like the rest of us. So... custom panels
will take longer. I put my last order in back in November. I'll be lucky to
see it by July. But it's worth the wait.. it's a great panel.
Rex isn't into computers much and really doesn't have the time to screw
with that whole thing, However he is excited about this list and will be
joining in at some point. He called me yesterday and was really jazzed about
it..
Rex and Grant dig each others stuff but i wouldn't hold my breath for any
sort of joint venture.
Fast turnaround times are a thing of the past for at least a while. Yea.. i
sure miss being able to call up and place a two or three panel order and get
them in about 3-4 months. But ya know... he's really starting over. Takes
some doing. How would we all like to unload a couple of 40ft boxes loaded
with parts and set up?? He's still lableling!!! LOL.
Everyone have a good weekend
Kind regards
John

Re: ..Serge future?

2001-04-05 by John Papiewski

Whoa...
What happened to Roxanne & Kevin & the rest of the Oakland crew... I
thought they were doing the shop panels & Rex was doing the custom
stuff...???

DarkStr717@... wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> .... Let's see here:
> all panels are now being built in Wisconsin. Right now, shop panels have
> priority although custom work ordered before the move are also being built.
> Getting the entire shop panel line up and running is the first task and
> finding qualified assemblers is proving difficult. Rex is training two guys
> at the moment. Rex is doing the assembly of custom orders himself. He is
> about 20 panels behind but should be starting to catch up next week... that
> is full assembly may start next week on the earliest orders.

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by sebsi23@home.com

--- In SergeModular@y..., DarkStr717@a... wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> ... Let's see here:

john, thanks for the update. i had a long rap w/ rex today as well,
and i will say he's being consistent with everything
john reported. yes, there will be new serge knobs. while i've been
pleased with the harry davies model, i've also been
rather enamored with multi-size knobs like the buchla gear i've used.
anyone up for "upgrading" the knobs
on your TKB ;-)?

mr. probe was also pleased as punch with the whole MEME crew, and
with our little SMOG Nation.

i'd like to put in my feelings about the whole STS/move/delay of
product/lack of website/questionable business
practice thread:

i used to regularly rail rex to up production, compete, advertise, go
online, put out a "budget" panel on a single
pcb, etc. in the end, all i was doing was encouraging rex to MAKE
MORE MONEY. pure and simple. (because
thats what i thought any business should be doing. its not called
business for nothing!) we'd go to lunch,
and i'd go off on all the new companies popping up everywhere (of
whom he was, for the most part, blissfully
unaware) and how he's got to make a move in this fertile marketplace.
strike while the soldering iron is hot, man!

he'd look at me like i told him his dog had just died. why am i
telling him this? eat your pho! (rex and i both love
vietnamese beef soup, or pho).

rex isn't part of the analog synthesizer craze. he's not jumping on
a bandwagon. he's continuing, and improving upon,
a concept of modular analog synthesis that was put into motion 25
years ago. he's certainly not trying to make a ton of
money, but i would imagine that under the right circumstances the
serge brand could garner a real pretty penny: imagine
if chris mc's evenfall said "serge" with that brushed aluminum and
familar colored jacks. and sold for $700. wow.

so why doesn't he do it? well, for one thing, serge himself didn't
"do it", and i think rex really respects the aesthetics of the
company's history. second, serge gear just flat out DOES NOT COMPETE
with doepfer, AS, blacet, etc. or, for that matter,
motm or synths.com. its in a different class and price range, and of
a different design philosophy. the proliferation of budget
modular, in my opinion, has the same effect on serge as the
proliferation of virtual modulars: folks try the virtuals, try the
doepfers, and know that there is something else out there. in other
words, the latest wave of modular mania results not
in less serge orders, but more. so, by just being serge, and
refusing to play the game, rex has increased interest and increased
orders. no webpage need apply. however, without violating attorney
client privilege (for those who don't know me, i'm a
lawyer by day, frequency shifter by night) suffice it to say the
webpage will happen. :-) there are reasons why there's not a
page right now; trust me, and just be patient.

rex and i were talking once a couple years back about the animal
panel. in my rather pushy ways, i kept reiterating the "need"
for this type of affordable shop panel. we thought with a single
pcb, with pots attached thereto, might run $1000, cost, with a ps.
"have to do about 100, matt" rex said. "oh yeah at least." said i.

"gotta hundred thousand bucks for the project, matt?" rex grinned.

okay, rex. i see what you mean. since then, i've shut up about the
whole subject. he knows what he's doing, and lets just let
the man settle in and get back to work.

(altho' i STILL think that all he's gotta do is put two resonant EQs
in a 1U box and make BIG MONEY!)

sorry for the blathering.

matt

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by Real Name

Firstly, thankyou Matt for asking Rex about the mysterious Compressor
feature on the FS.

yes, there will be new serge knobs. while i've been

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>pleased with the harry davies model, i've also been
>rather enamored with multi-size knobs like the buchla gear i've used.
> anyone up for "upgrading" the knobs
>on your TKB ;-)?

As an existing Serge customer I would be a little disapointed to see any
major design changes... I LOVE
everything about the hardware on the panels - and I would have hoped any
future buys would match my
existing system.

>mr. probe was also pleased as punch with the whole MEME crew, and
>with our little SMOG Nation.

After extensive research coupled with the frustration re: the STS situation
(I ordered 2 custom panels the very week Rex
left SF and unfortunately had to cancel) - the only other Modulars I would
consider as a companion to my 3 panel Serge would be
CMS, Modcan or Wiard. I have been intrigued by the Wiard modules and any
collaborative efforts between the 2 design teams would
be most welcome.

>i'd like to put in my feelings about the whole STS/move/delay of
>product/lack of website/questionable business
>practice thread:
>

<snip>

well, I have mixed thoughts on this... I, personally would be happy just to
be able to order custom panels and recieve them
in 4-6 weeks. Maybe its an elitist attitude but I have no great desire to
see Rex expand the business commercially... I have a similar attitude
with the music I make. All the time I get people telling me I make great
music but if I just changed a few things to make it more commercially viable
then I would make a killing. Sorry - not interested... and I guess Rex isn't
either and I have no doubt Rex sees what he does as a creative endeavor and
I respect that. The 6mth+ wait at the moment is not ideal however... I hope
Rex gets some help soon to get the wait time down to what is was a couple of
years ago.

Price-wise again I have no complaints. Yes the panels are expensive, but
compared to Neve EQ's, vintage compressors, etc they are
not extortionate. Again, maybe I'm being elitist, but I like the fact that
not every producer on the block has a serge system. I like the fact that
I can't hear the Res EQ being used on every new techno record... Serge would
lose some of its appeal for me if a situation like this occured.

>(altho' i STILL think that all he's gotta do is put two resonant EQs
>in a 1U box and make BIG MONEY!)

I would love to see a 2U rackmount Dual VC Res EQ - but only if it matched
the design quality of the STS panels - yes, I would pay A LOT of money for
one of these. (I would be disapointed if such a unit were made cheap and
mass marketed however for reasons explained above).

This is the area where I WOULD like to see Rex expand... I know he has
designed some new modules (BLOG, PDIV, etc) and modified
some original Serge designs, but I would love to see an increase in new
modules. Maybe the research costs are prohibitive for Rex on his own so
hopefully the Wiard collaboration will help.

I have asked Rex in the past about a VC Spring Reverb and he seemed quite
keen. Also, although I like the Serge filters because they sound like
nothing else - I too - like a lot of users would like the option of a
'deeper' 24dB filter.

Finally, can somebody clear this up: does the SF factory have any shop
panels in stock and ready to ship??? Are they still taking orders?

thx

K.

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by C. Whitten

Lots of interesting opinion and info in all the mails on this subject.
Those 'in the know' seem to think that Rex (or STS) will be able to turn
around panels much quicker in the coming months and that will be welcome.
(Great to hear he's training up a couple of people).
I have mixed thoughts on some of the opinions expressed about Rex himself
though.
In any case, he deserves recognition for picking up Serge, sorting out the
modules and keeping the company running in order for us to purchase and
enjoy some of the most well built and innovative pieces of kit available.
I can't wait for things to settle down and I can put in an order for a Quad
panel.
I agree with Opart in that I love the look of my panels and hope that
nothing is going to change bar finding a new knob supply.
I see John thinks that the partnership with Wiard is not likely to happen
soon either. It did seem like an exciting development. I wouldn't want Serge
to start looking like Wiard or getting quite as complex either.
I know the Serge stuff can be pretty deep but it's easy to use as a
patchable mono synth as well.
That is what so beautiful about it.
CW

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by norman fay

In message <B6F355CE.76D%chris@...>, C. Whitten
<chris@...> writes

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>I have mixed thoughts on some of the opinions expressed about Rex himself
>though.
>In any case, he deserves recognition for picking up Serge, sorting out the
>modules and keeping the company running in order for us to purchase and
>enjoy some of the most well built and innovative pieces of kit available.
>I can't wait for things to settle down and I can put in an order for a Quad
>panel.

Well, I completely agree with the above...the thing with strange little
business operations like STS is that they have a habit of outliving
their competition. Over here in the UK we have an auto manufacturer
called the bristol car company, who seem quite similar - high priced,
exclusive product, little-known, "keep it small" business plan, etc.
Despite constant predictions of their coming doom, they just keep on
going, and remain independent, unlike their more expansionist
competition, who either got taken over or went belly-up.
I think serge is like that, they've already outlasted nearly all of
their early contemporaries, and I wouldn't be at all suprised if they
see off 9/10 of their current fellow-modular-manufacturers.
The only gripe I have, as I mentioned, is about having to buy the
complete 16" of modules in one go. Apart from a couple of pieces, I
don't think the individual modules are that expensive...

best etc.
--
norman fay

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by John Papiewski

I like the car analogy... there's TVR, Morgan, etc.. are they still around??

Also, yes, the Serge/STS module prices are very competitive. Really,
the only issue is, having to buy a whole $2700 panel at a time.

norman fay wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
>
> Well, I completely agree with the above...the thing with strange little
> business operations like STS is that they have a habit of outliving
> their competition. Over here in the UK we have an auto manufacturer
> called the bristol car company, who seem quite similar - high priced,
> exclusive product, little-known, "keep it small" business plan, etc.
> Despite constant predictions of their coming doom, they just keep on
> going, and remain independent, unlike their more expansionist
> competition, who either got taken over or went belly-up.
> I think serge is like that, they've already outlasted nearly all of
> their early contemporaries, and I wouldn't be at all suprised if they
> see off 9/10 of their current fellow-modular-manufacturers.
> The only gripe I have, as I mentioned, is about having to buy the
> complete 16" of modules in one go. Apart from a couple of pieces, I
> don't think the individual modules are that expensive...
>
> best etc.

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by dlh30039@yahoo.com

If you think about it, you have a similar situation with EMS.
Robin Wood has been steadfast in maintaining the quality and style
throughout the years. In both cases one will have to wait a bit. And
while EMS & STS are quite different, they both have an undeniable
sense of soul. Things that are just worth waiting for.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In SergeModular@y..., John Papiewski <johnp@w...> wrote:
> I like the car analogy... there's TVR, Morgan, etc.. are they still
around??
>
> Also, yes, the Serge/STS module prices are very competitive.
Really,
> the only issue is, having to buy a whole $2700 panel at a time.
>
> norman fay wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Well, I completely agree with the above...the thing with strange
little
> > business operations like STS is that they have a habit of
outliving
> > their competition. Over here in the UK we have an auto
manufacturer
> > called the bristol car company, who seem quite similar - high
priced,
> > exclusive product, little-known, "keep it small" business plan,
etc.
> > Despite constant predictions of their coming doom, they just keep
on
> > going, and remain independent, unlike their more expansionist
> > competition, who either got taken over or went belly-up.
> > I think serge is like that, they've already outlasted nearly
all of
> > their early contemporaries, and I wouldn't be at all suprised if
they
> > see off 9/10 of their current fellow-modular-manufacturers.
> > The only gripe I have, as I mentioned, is about having to buy
the
> > complete 16" of modules in one go. Apart from a couple of
pieces, I
> > don't think the individual modules are that expensive...
> >
> > best etc.

Re: ..Serge future?

2001-04-06 by DarkStr717@aol.com

In a message dated 4/5/01 5:33:45 PM, johnp@... writes:

<< hoa...
What happened to Roxanne & Kevin & the rest of the Oakland crew... I
thought they were doing the shop panels & Rex was doing the custom
stuff...??? >>

Kevin is kinda on the back burner ... he's not building. And Roxanne is out.
Probably never to return.
John

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by DarkStr717@aol.com

In a message dated 4/5/01 8:59:47 PM, sebsi23@... writes:

<< (altho' i STILL think that all he's gotta do is put two resonant EQs
in a 1U box and make BIG MONEY!)

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>>

he'd look at me like i told him his dog had just died.
LOL You had that same conversation too huh?? Everytime i went to Oakland
Rex and i would get into this.... with the same results.... and i respect
him for that. Everything you said is true. Let's leave the guy alone to do
his thing. But damn.. sure wish he'd redo that resonant EQ. I've been buggin'
him for years about it. Oh well... (sigh)
John

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by DarkStr717@aol.com

In a message dated 4/6/01 2:04:46 AM, opart@... writes:

<< Finally, can somebody clear this up: does the SF factory have any shop
panels in stock and ready to ship??? Are they still taking orders? >>

No they don't. Rex and Kevin have duplicate benches now but as far as i know
Kevin isn't going to be building for awile.
R&D is on hold for awhile. The move from Oakland ; spliting the the scene
into two parts was supposed to facilitate R&D and free Rex up to do custom
work only. With Kevin and Roxanne handleing shop panels and such. That didn't
happen.. it crashed big time. So now once again it's all on Rex and it's
going to be awhile before we see anything new... unless Grant and Rex get
together and do a joint R&D project. But like i said before, I wouldnt hold
my breath. But it sure would be cool !!! hehehe
John

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by DarkStr717@aol.com

In a message dated 4/6/01 3:18:37 AM, chris@... writes:

<< I wouldn't want Serge
to start looking like Wiard or getting quite as complex either. >>

Don't think you have to worry about that. However if these to guys do get
together, any changes will be on the inside. If Grant came up with something
outrageous it might appear ina STS case. But then again folks, this is pure
speculation... Sci-Fi if you will.
John

Re: ..Serge future (long, long, opinionated semi rant)

2001-04-06 by C. Whitten

> But damn.. sure wish he'd redo that resonant EQ. I've been buggin'
> him for years about it. Oh well... (sigh)

The Resonant Eq is superb as it is.....err isn't it.
It would be awesome with some voltage control though.

Serge Knobs

2001-04-09 by C. Whitten

> i've also been
>> rather enamored with multi-size knobs like the buchla gear i've used.
>> anyone up for "upgrading" the knobs
>> on your TKB ;-)?

Despite the discussion on the difficulty finding suitable knobs a friend of
mine is looking for upwards of 100 to recondition a pretty battered Serge
system.
Would Rex have any? Would his choice of new knob fit an old system?
Any help will be passed on.
Thanks, CW.

Re: Serge Knobs

2001-04-10 by matt wilson law office

"C. Whitten" wrote:

> i've also been
>> rather enamored with multi-size knobs like the buchla gear i've used.
>> anyone up for "upgrading" the knobs
>> on your TKB ;-)?
Despite the discussion on the difficulty finding suitable knobs a friend of
mine is looking for upwards of 100 to recondition a pretty battered Serge
system.
Would Rex have any? Would his choice of new knob fit an old system?
according to rex, the new knobs will fit the present panel graphics just fine; i assume that
they will accomodate older designs as well. chris, if you can supply the vintage of your friend's
system i will run this issue by rex the next time we talk.
matt w.

--
Matt Wilson, Attorney @ Law
mbwlaw@...
(619) 234-2200

Re: Serge Knobs

2001-04-13 by DarkStr717@aol.com

Rex just sent me one of the new knobs and they look pretty good. They are
silver (kinda) .. a brushed aluminum knurled type thing that feels very good.
However the detent( sp?) ... ya know... the line in the middle is hard to see
in low light and completely disappears under stage lights. Hmmmm... there is
a black version that should be here in a few days but its going to have the
same problem. what to do?? And !!...... the black ones are $5 apiece. Great
: (
Kind regards
John DuVal

Re: Serge Knobs

2001-04-14 by DarkStr717@aol.com

Just received the black knob sample. It's pretty cool. It does have a white
indent like the Davies. It's a lot easier to see. It is somwhat smaller than
what we're used to so the overall effect will be of having a little more room
to manouver (sp?) forgive my spelling please. So our new panels should look
pretty much like the Oakland panels from a distance. the only drawback is
that they are $5 apiece. Argh!!
Kind regards
John DuVal

Re: Serge Knobs

2001-05-06 by barry_michael@enron.net

--- In SergeModular@y..., DarkStr717@a... wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Just received the black knob sample. It's pretty cool. It does have

a white

> indent like the Davies. It's a lot easier to see. It is somwhat

smaller than

> what we're used to so the overall effect will be of having a little

more room

> to manouver (sp?) forgive my spelling please. So our new panels

should look

> pretty much like the Oakland panels from a distance. the only

drawback is

> that they are $5 apiece. Argh!!
> Kind regards
> John DuVal

Damn John, what are they made of, onyx?
How much are patch cables now? 10 bucks apiece?
BarryM

Re: Serge Knobs

2001-05-08 by DarkStr717@aol.com

In a message dated 5/6/01 4:22:41 AM, barry_michael@... writes:

<< Damn John, what are they made of, onyx?
How much are patch cables now? 10 bucks apiece? >>

The $5 black knobs have been scrapped. Rex is going to stick with Davies
knobs even though they bum him out. On of the guys at the shop goes thru the
boxes and slavages the good ones. Right now he is getting 10 usable knobs out
of almost a hundred. Yes.... Davies doesn't give a rip.
John

Serge Knobs

2004-02-20 by ALMAGATA@telefonica.net

Hi People,

Do you know a source for the serge knobs? ..or at least what
maker/model is? I`m finishing a milton sequencer and I`d like to make a
similar layout and colors than my TKB, including the same knobs. Also I
need some spares.
Any info is very apreciated,

Thanks,

Josue Arias.

Re: Serge Knobs

2004-02-20 by Peter Grenader

Davies model 1900

ALMAGATA@... wrote:

> Hi People,
>
> Do you know a source for the serge knobs? ..or at least what
> maker/model is? I`m finishing a milton sequencer and I`d like to make a
> similar layout and colors than my TKB, including the same knobs. Also I
> need some spares.
> Any info is very apreciated,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josue Arias.
>
>
>
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Serge Knobs+Good trader alert

2004-02-20 by kirkdegiorgio

Hey Josue

hope you're having fun with the TKB :-)

and you're hooking up a Milton too? Sequencer chaos!!

For the record people - I just did a sale with Josue and he is a
great and trusty buyer of gear... prompt payment - no hassles - very
helpful, etc.

regards

KD

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Hi People,
>
> Do you know a source for the serge knobs? ..or at least what
> maker/model is? I`m finishing a milton sequencer and I`d like to

make a

> similar layout and colors than my TKB, including the same knobs.

Also I

> need some spares.
> Any info is very apreciated,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josue Arias.