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So Kirk, what was it?

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-09 by kirkdegiorgio

Hi John

sorry - only just checked the archives...

yes - the panel is functioning fine now. I'm waiting for a detailed
report of the fixes from Rex, but from my discussions with Kevin
Fortune it seems the PCO problem was a 'chip & socket' issue. No more
details on what that exactly means - hopefully Rex' report will
clarify.

The DADSR irregular CV output was a tough one for Rex & Kevin.
Apparently its not a fault as such but this particular module is
designed for longer type envelopes. I was doing very short blips when
I noticed the irregular envelopes and Kevin confirmed that these
were 'timing errors' due to the components not being able to peform
the very short times. Kevin & Rex changed some components and the
timing errors have been greatly reduced but not totally eliminated,
according to Kevin.

The previous problems (unstable NTO, dead Portamento IN, crackly UAP
output) were all fixed by Tony Allgood and they were basically down
to 3 faulty pots and 2 wires that had become unsoldered.

Unfortunately the Freq Shifter on my other panel is exhibiting the
same behaviour as the PCO (inter VCO is wavering badly), so that
panel will also have to be looked at some time soon (it seems to
stabilise if I turn the Fine Tune fully CCW and use an external CV
source to adjust Freq - which indicates another faulty pot).

Thanks to everybody who offered help & advice and also those who got
the repair process back on an amicable track. Sincerely appreciated :-
)

Kirk
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Kirk Degiorgio, if I might ask, is your sad panel happy again?
>
> --
> m/n/m/l
> surreal electronic music, sound, noise
> http://mnml.soulcatcher.net

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-10 by Bill Sequeira

Glad to hear that the panel is fixed.

Never heard of such a large systemic failure - what do you think was the
reason for such situation?

Regards,

Bill
______________________________________________________________________
Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
Principal, Axon Hillock
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "kirkdegiorgio" <kirk.degiorgio@...>
> Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:44:06 -0000
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: So Kirk, what was it?
>
> Hi John
>
> sorry - only just checked the archives...
>
> yes - the panel is functioning fine now. I'm waiting for a detailed
> report of the fixes from Rex, but from my discussions with Kevin
> Fortune it seems the PCO problem was a 'chip & socket' issue. No more
> details on what that exactly means - hopefully Rex' report will
> clarify.
>
> The DADSR irregular CV output was a tough one for Rex & Kevin.
> Apparently its not a fault as such but this particular module is
> designed for longer type envelopes. I was doing very short blips when
> I noticed the irregular envelopes and Kevin confirmed that these
> were 'timing errors' due to the components not being able to peform
> the very short times. Kevin & Rex changed some components and the
> timing errors have been greatly reduced but not totally eliminated,
> according to Kevin.
>
> The previous problems (unstable NTO, dead Portamento IN, crackly UAP
> output) were all fixed by Tony Allgood and they were basically down
> to 3 faulty pots and 2 wires that had become unsoldered.
>
> Unfortunately the Freq Shifter on my other panel is exhibiting the
> same behaviour as the PCO (inter VCO is wavering badly), so that
> panel will also have to be looked at some time soon (it seems to
> stabilise if I turn the Fine Tune fully CCW and use an external CV
> source to adjust Freq - which indicates another faulty pot).
>
> Thanks to everybody who offered help & advice and also those who got
> the repair process back on an amicable track. Sincerely appreciated :-
> )
>
> Kirk
>
>> Kirk Degiorgio, if I might ask, is your sad panel happy again?
>>
>> --
>> m/n/m/l
>> surreal electronic music, sound, noise
>> http://mnml.soulcatcher.net
>
>
>
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-10 by John P

I don't suppose 'playing' the Serge with rubber mallets has anything to
do with it.....

Bill Sequeira wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Glad to hear that the panel is fixed.
>
>Never heard of such a large systemic failure - what do you think was the
>reason for such situation?
>
>Regards,
>
>Bill
>______________________________________________________________________
> Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
> Principal, Axon Hillock
>
>
>
>>From: "kirkdegiorgio" <kirk.degiorgio@...>
>>Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>>Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:44:06 -0000
>>To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [SergeModular] Re: So Kirk, what was it?
>>
>>Hi John
>>
>>sorry - only just checked the archives...
>>
>>yes - the panel is functioning fine now. I'm waiting for a detailed
>>report of the fixes from Rex, but from my discussions with Kevin
>>Fortune it seems the PCO problem was a 'chip & socket' issue. No more
>>details on what that exactly means - hopefully Rex' report will
>>clarify.
>>
>>The DADSR irregular CV output was a tough one for Rex & Kevin.
>>Apparently its not a fault as such but this particular module is
>>designed for longer type envelopes. I was doing very short blips when
>>I noticed the irregular envelopes and Kevin confirmed that these
>>were 'timing errors' due to the components not being able to peform
>>the very short times. Kevin & Rex changed some components and the
>>timing errors have been greatly reduced but not totally eliminated,
>>according to Kevin.
>>
>>The previous problems (unstable NTO, dead Portamento IN, crackly UAP
>>output) were all fixed by Tony Allgood and they were basically down
>>to 3 faulty pots and 2 wires that had become unsoldered.
>>
>>Unfortunately the Freq Shifter on my other panel is exhibiting the
>>same behaviour as the PCO (inter VCO is wavering badly), so that
>>panel will also have to be looked at some time soon (it seems to
>>stabilise if I turn the Fine Tune fully CCW and use an external CV
>>source to adjust Freq - which indicates another faulty pot).
>>
>>Thanks to everybody who offered help & advice and also those who got
>>the repair process back on an amicable track. Sincerely appreciated :-
>>)
>>
>>Kirk
>>
>>
>>
>>>Kirk Degiorgio, if I might ask, is your sad panel happy again?
>>>
>>>--
>>>m/n/m/l
>>>surreal electronic music, sound, noise
>>>http://mnml.soulcatcher.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Keep on Patchin'!
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Keep on Patchin'!
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
m/n/m/l
surreal electronic music, sound, noise
http://mnml.soulcatcher.net

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-10 by S V G

No, it was just those damn knives...


> I don't suppose 'playing' the Serge with rubber mallets has anything to
> do with it.....




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by kirkdegiorgio

If it wasn't so frustrating I'd be seeing the funny side of it too...

I can assure you the problems are not thru any misuse. I've never
gigged with my Serge and its in a non-smoking home studio environment.

It is a mystery but I am clutching at 1 theory as to how 2 of my
panels have failed so badly:

The problems started a little over 3 years ago - a few months after I
moved into a new house. After setting the studio up we had some
builders knock out a disused chimney breast from the centre of the
house. I covered up all the studio equipment with dust sheets and the
builders did the same.

However, a few months after the work was complete we noticed a film
of soot/dust on the walls and ceiling in some downstairs rooms. This
was especially noticeable in areas near heat sources (like above
radiators)... the soot/dust has been 'baked' on to the walls by the
heat sources.

My only explanation is this soot/dust was in the air for a
significant amount of time - enough to contaminate the pots in the
Serge well after the dust sheets were removed. Its difficult to know
for sure because when Tony Allgood checked all the pots there was no
obvious sign of dirt/grime, and cleaning did not help - only
replacing the pots did the trick.

However the first thing Kevin Fortune asked me was if I lived in a
heavily polluted area (which I don't) or near the ocean (12 miles
away). He put the chip & socket issue 'possibly' down to
a 'pollutant' and the pots also. I have no idea how the unsoldered
wires that Tony Allgood found happened - obviously not related.

So that's my theory. I got my other panels and modular stuff a good
while after this building work and they have been 100%.

My repaired panel now seems OK - but although the PCO no longer
warbles all over the place it does drift significantly more than the
NTO/PCO's on my other panels ( it drifted flat 1 whole semitone
over a week - whilst the other NTO/PCO's were still accurate during
the same period). If drifts around 20 cents (flat) over a 3-4 hour
period and therefore needs regular retuning which I don't have to do
with my other NTO/PCO's.

The panel with the unstable FRS now has an unstable VCFQ. It is
opening and closing randomly and intermittently - and the only cure
is to turn the FREQ pot fully CCW and set the FREQ by feeding a
voltage source from my Dual Processor into the VC F INPUT. So this
indicates another faulty pot.

My expenses were running at around £600 (over $1000) to get the 1
panel repaired and now Fed-Ex have hit me with another £100 for
duty/VAT and a mysterious 'RETURNED GOODS FEE' - even though customs
knew it was a repair. Now I've got to get this other panel fixed so
you'll forgive me if I don't roll around with laughter at the
lighthearted comments!

KD
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> No, it was just those damn knives...
>
>
> > I don't suppose 'playing' the Serge with rubber mallets has
anything to
> > do with it.....
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by Peter Grenader

kirkdegiorgio wrote:

> but although the PCO no longer
> warbles all over the place it does drift significantly more than the
> NTO/PCO's on my other panels ( it drifted flat 1 whole semitone
> over a week - whilst the other NTO/PCO's were still accurate during
> the same period)

Weird - the PCO and NTO engines are identical. Same board. The NTO just
has a second PCBA with the all the bells and whistles on it.

The PCO uses a self-heated 3046 in the expo converter circuit. I would
suspect pot problems (although doubtful as I believe you've said they were
all recently replaced, yes?) or the 3046 not heating up as two possible
culprits. Much like what Analogue System does now on their filter and VCO,
in that all the trannies on the 3046 are on the same substrate, Serge used
segments of it as a heater to get the whole chip up above room temp for
compensation - much like the UA726 did by design (this was the equiv part
used in early Moog mini's and Buchlas, which consisted of a matched NPN pair
and a heater).

Another suspect could be the PSU. Are you running close to its capacity?
As daft as this sounds - is the PCO off to the end of the line of VCOs or
are there stable NTO's flanking it? If it's off to one end, is it furthest
away or closest to the end of the panel where the power is coming in from
the PSU?

- Peter

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by John P

It's easy to make light of somebody else's trouble... my apologies.....


kirkdegiorgio wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>you'll forgive me if I don't roll around with laughter at the
>lighthearted comments!
>
>KD
>
>
>
>

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by kirkdegiorgio

sorry - no need to apologise... I've still got my sense of humour
(just!) - but you can see just how utterly frustrating the whole
thing has been... and Fed Ex have just taken my frustration to its
limits...

Peter G has even suggested that my house is haunted! LOL!

I do seem to have the WORST luck with modulars... even my absolutely
bomb proof MOTM 440 has a knob that works in reverse... my Doepfer
A100 came with power cables wired wrongly and smoke poured out as
soon as I turned it on... my Modcan seems 100% but now Canadian
customs have decided to hold my latest order for up to 30 days whilst
they decide if it needs a 'special export license'...
AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

KD
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> It's easy to make light of somebody else's trouble... my
apologies.....
>
>
> kirkdegiorgio wrote:
>
> >you'll forgive me if I don't roll around with laughter at the
> >lighthearted comments!
> >
> >KD
> >
> >
> >
> >

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by Peter Grenader

kirkdegiorgio wrote:

> Peter G has even suggested that my house is haunted! LOL!


well - he DID say the problems started shortly after moving into the house.
I mean, it's OBVIOUS at that point, ain't it?

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by ALMAGATA@telefonica.net

Its a possibility....

Now seriously, Do you know of psicophonies and other strange things in
recording enviroment? A good friend of mine was living in Haunted house
for 2 years, along with other strange thish that hapened all days, once
he was recording guitar in the night using headphones and he heard a
whispering voice thru the speakers saying: "Antonio, are you there...?"
Antonio is the name for my friend...

Best Regards,

Josue.

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: Peter Grenader <peter@...>
Fecha: Martes, Junio 15, 2004 10:12 pm
Asunto: Re: [SergeModular] Re: So Kirk, what was it?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> kirkdegiorgio wrote:
>
> > Peter G has even suggested that my house is haunted! LOL!
>
>
> well - he DID say the problems started shortly after moving into
> the house.
> I mean, it's OBVIOUS at that point, ain't it?
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> Music that listens to you.
> LAUNCHcast. What's in your mix?
> http://us.click.yahoo.co
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by Bill Sequeira

I think your theory is likely to be the cause. Soot and dust are two of the
worse enemies of electronics, as you unfortunately know.

A toast to your panels coming back to life.

Regards,

Bill
______________________________________________________________________
Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
Principal, Axon Hillock
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "kirkdegiorgio" <kirk.degiorgio@...>
> Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:37:21 -0000
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: So Kirk, what was it?
>
> If it wasn't so frustrating I'd be seeing the funny side of it too...
>
> I can assure you the problems are not thru any misuse. I've never
> gigged with my Serge and its in a non-smoking home studio environment.
>
> It is a mystery but I am clutching at 1 theory as to how 2 of my
> panels have failed so badly:
>
> The problems started a little over 3 years ago - a few months after I
> moved into a new house. After setting the studio up we had some
> builders knock out a disused chimney breast from the centre of the
> house. I covered up all the studio equipment with dust sheets and the
> builders did the same.
>
> However, a few months after the work was complete we noticed a film
> of soot/dust on the walls and ceiling in some downstairs rooms. This
> was especially noticeable in areas near heat sources (like above
> radiators)... the soot/dust has been 'baked' on to the walls by the
> heat sources.
>
> My only explanation is this soot/dust was in the air for a
> significant amount of time - enough to contaminate the pots in the
> Serge well after the dust sheets were removed. Its difficult to know
> for sure because when Tony Allgood checked all the pots there was no
> obvious sign of dirt/grime, and cleaning did not help - only
> replacing the pots did the trick.
>
> However the first thing Kevin Fortune asked me was if I lived in a
> heavily polluted area (which I don't) or near the ocean (12 miles
> away). He put the chip & socket issue 'possibly' down to
> a 'pollutant' and the pots also. I have no idea how the unsoldered
> wires that Tony Allgood found happened - obviously not related.
>
> So that's my theory. I got my other panels and modular stuff a good
> while after this building work and they have been 100%.
>
> My repaired panel now seems OK - but although the PCO no longer
> warbles all over the place it does drift significantly more than the
> NTO/PCO's on my other panels ( it drifted flat 1 whole semitone
> over a week - whilst the other NTO/PCO's were still accurate during
> the same period). If drifts around 20 cents (flat) over a 3-4 hour
> period and therefore needs regular retuning which I don't have to do
> with my other NTO/PCO's.
>
> The panel with the unstable FRS now has an unstable VCFQ. It is
> opening and closing randomly and intermittently - and the only cure
> is to turn the FREQ pot fully CCW and set the FREQ by feeding a
> voltage source from my Dual Processor into the VC F INPUT. So this
> indicates another faulty pot.
>
> My expenses were running at around £600 (over $1000) to get the 1
> panel repaired and now Fed-Ex have hit me with another £100 for
> duty/VAT and a mysterious 'RETURNED GOODS FEE' - even though customs
> knew it was a repair. Now I've got to get this other panel fixed so
> you'll forgive me if I don't roll around with laughter at the
> lighthearted comments!
>
> KD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> No, it was just those damn knives...
>>
>>
>>> I don't suppose 'playing' the Serge with rubber mallets has
> anything to
>>> do with it.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
>> http://messenger.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by Peter Grenader

OK - you brought it up first. Please forgive the TOTALLY off-topic post.

A real good friend of mine used to own a recording studio by the name of
Milagro in Glendale, CA. The facility was originally owned by the
Carpenters under a different name and my friend Mario took the room over
(not the equipment) after Karen passed away, I used to hang there a lot and
I witnessed a few unexplainables, one sticking in my mind more than others:

Mario once bought a used Neumann mic for a song and at about 3 AM one
evening decided to test it to see if it worked. Picture a large performance
room with hard wood floors, a mic stand in the middle with the Neumann which
was running into the board. All he wanted to do was record silence and
listen to how quiet it was. So, we record what we hear as a silent room
onto a tape on a new reel, we play it back.

What we heard on playback however was the sound of women's shoes walking
across the hardwood floor. It wasn't there though when we were monitoring
the room when we were recording. Mario and I both freak. Mario now
tippie-toes into the performance room with his leather jacket and throws it
over the mic and scurries back into the control room like a cockroach caught
in bright light. The guy is easily 300 pounds and it was pretty funny to
see him skee-datte like that.

We repeat the process. We note the room is silent when we record. On
playback what do we hear? the sound of muffled footsteps.

Of course we're both convinced at that point it's Karen, right?


There were other reports of water facets turning on, doors slamming and
flickering lights. I wasn't there for any of that, who knows.

- P



ALMAGATA@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Its a possibility....
>
> Now seriously, Do you know of psicophonies and other strange things in
> recording enviroment? A good friend of mine was living in Haunted house
> for 2 years, along with other strange thish that hapened all days, once
> he was recording guitar in the night using headphones and he heard a
> whispering voice thru the speakers saying: "Antonio, are you there...?"
> Antonio is the name for my friend...
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Josue.
>
> ----- Mensaje Original -----
> De: Peter Grenader <peter@...>
> Fecha: Martes, Junio 15, 2004 10:12 pm
> Asunto: Re: [SergeModular] Re: So Kirk, what was it?
>
>> kirkdegiorgio wrote:
>>
>>> Peter G has even suggested that my house is haunted! LOL!
>>
>>
>> well - he DID say the problems started shortly after moving into
>> the house.
>> I mean, it's OBVIOUS at that point, ain't it?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
>> ~-->
>> Music that listens to you.
>> LAUNCHcast. What's in your mix?
>> http://us.click.yahoo.co
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -~->
>>
>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Re: So Kirk, what was it?

2004-06-15 by Chris Whitten

> he was recording guitar in the night using headphones and he heard a
> whispering voice thru the speakers saying: "Antonio, are you there...?"
Hmm, could have been the drugs..............or the Psycho-Ponies ( Crazy
Horses!!!)
CW

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