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Triggers from Analog Tape?

2005-08-03 by johnrichoux

Hello fellow Sergers

I picked up a used Tascam TSR-8 a little while back for analog
recording of my Serge. I
just got around to testing it out. What I thought I could do is
record a gate pulse from a
DTG to track 8 and then use the recorded track as a clock source to
trigger sequences and
stuff. However, I can't get the recorded signal to trigger anything.
I've recorded with "Sync
Lock" on and off, I've varied the slope of the DTG. I'm not going
though any mixer - just
straight from bananna to rca (with a few adaptors). There is
definitely a click being
recorded, but it won't trigger.

I had some success doing something like this a few years ago on my
old blackface ADAT
before it died. I should add that I'm very pleased with sound quality
I'm getting from the
TSR-8.

The Tascam manual says that the unit is designed to record either
SMPTE or FSK. I have
the CH8 ref level set to +4; it's getting plenty of signal. I've
tried attenuating it thu my C/
M module. Full on it bleeds over to the ch7 meter.

Anyone have any experience with this kind of setup? Any suggestions
are welcome.
Thanks
John Richoux

Re: Triggers from Analog Tape?

2005-08-03 by Ben Vehorn

Hi John,
Well, I would think that the inputs of the tape machine would block DC
signals, and isn't a gate a DC signal? But you say you've had luck with
this before, so it should work the same with as a tape machine as with
an Adat, I would guess...
But my suggestion would be to generate a short percussive spike in the
audio range (i.e. a click track) and record that to tape. I think that
would work better for acting as a trigger.
I have a Tama TTB-1000 that I use for this... it has 8 audio inputs and
generates proper triggers from audio. This way any click track,
individual output from a drum machine, or other audio source can be
used as a trigger/clock source. I don't see them for sale much but they
are very handy for this sort of thing and generally sell for very
cheap.
However, if you needed variable length gates instead of triggers this
would be tricky, but it could probably be done with a sustained audio
signal and a comparator, perhaps you already have one in your Serge
system.
Good luck.
---Ben

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Aug 3, 2005, at 2:10 PM, johnrichoux wrote:

> Hello fellow Sergers
>
> I picked up a used Tascam TSR-8 a little while back for analog
> recording of my Serge. I
> just got around to testing it out. What I thought I could do is
> record a gate pulse from a
> DTG to track 8 and then use the recorded track as a clock source to
> trigger sequences and
> stuff. However, I can't get the recorded signal to trigger anything.
> I've recorded with "Sync
> Lock" on and off, I've varied the slope of the DTG. I'm not going
> though any mixer - just
> straight from bananna to rca (with a few adaptors). There is
> definitely a click being
> recorded, but it won't trigger.
>
> I had some success doing something like this a few years ago on my
> old blackface ADAT
> before it died. I should add that I'm very pleased with sound quality
> I'm getting from the
> TSR-8.
>
> The Tascam manual says that the unit is designed to record either
> SMPTE or FSK. I have
> the CH8 ref level set to +4; it's getting plenty of signal. I've
> tried attenuating it thu my C/
> M module. Full on it bleeds over to the ch7 meter.
>
> Anyone have any experience with this kind of setup? Any suggestions
> are welcome.
> Thanks
> John Richoux
>
>
>
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Serge
> Analog synthesizer
> Sampler
> Frequency synthesizer
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> Moog synthesizer
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> ▪ Visit your group "SergeModular" on the web.
>
> ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> SergeModular-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

Re: Triggers from Analog Tape?

2005-08-03 by Carbon111

You need to use an envelope follower or a DSG configured as one to convert the taped audio to CV.
Best Regards, James
--
http://www.carbon111.com/serge.html

Re: Triggers from Analog Tape?

2005-08-03 by Peter Grenader

Hark - there's another way.

What you're planning on here is called a 'control track'. If you're not
fitted with either an envelope detector or voltage follower, try this at
home:

Run the outputs of the deck into a Comparator. That'll square it off
nicely. If you're seeking pulses instead of gate, run the output of the
Comparator into a USG set to0 attack and 0 decay, and use the ned cycle
pulse output.

Your recorded signal should be as loud and as clear as possible (sine waves)

Don't work?

1) fiddle with the output level of the deck.

2) Fiddle with the length of the envelope used in the track you're recording
as the control track.

Getting too many pulses per tape event?

Shorted the envelope and/or try running the tape signal through a lowpass
filter before or after the comparator or filtering the signal out of the
comparator - this should clear it up.

For more info on some remarkable control track possibilities, including
recording two (or more) on a single deck channel and decoding them back to
two signlas once in the synth, I've put a page up about Mort's use of same
here:

http://www.buzzclick-music.com/mort_lore.html

it's pretty interesting.

enjoy (or not)

- P

Ben Vehorn wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Hi John,
> Well, I would think that the inputs of the tape machine would block DC
> signals, and isn't a gate a DC signal? But you say you've had luck with
> this before, so it should work the same with as a tape machine as with
> an Adat, I would guess...
> But my suggestion would be to generate a short percussive spike in the
> audio range (i.e. a click track) and record that to tape. I think that
> would work better for acting as a trigger.
> I have a Tama TTB-1000 that I use for this... it has 8 audio inputs and
> generates proper triggers from audio. This way any click track,
> individual output from a drum machine, or other audio source can be
> used as a trigger/clock source. I don't see them for sale much but they
> are very handy for this sort of thing and generally sell for very
> cheap.
> However, if you needed variable length gates instead of triggers this
> would be tricky, but it could probably be done with a sustained audio
> signal and a comparator, perhaps you already have one in your Serge
> system.
> Good luck.
> ---Ben
>
> On Aug 3, 2005, at 2:10 PM, johnrichoux wrote:
>
>> Hello fellow Sergers
>>
>> I picked up a used Tascam TSR-8 a little while back for analog
>> recording of my Serge. I
>> just got around to testing it out. What I thought I could do is
>> record a gate pulse from a
>> DTG to track 8 and then use the recorded track as a clock source to
>> trigger sequences and
>> stuff. However, I can't get the recorded signal to trigger anything.
>> I've recorded with "Sync
>> Lock" on and off, I've varied the slope of the DTG. I'm not going
>> though any mixer - just
>> straight from bananna to rca (with a few adaptors). There is
>> definitely a click being
>> recorded, but it won't trigger.
>>
>> I had some success doing something like this a few years ago on my
>> old blackface ADAT
>> before it died. I should add that I'm very pleased with sound quality
>> I'm getting from the
>> TSR-8.
>>
>> The Tascam manual says that the unit is designed to record either
>> SMPTE or FSK. I have
>> the CH8 ref level set to +4; it's getting plenty of signal. I've
>> tried attenuating it thu my C/
>> M module. Full on it bleeds over to the ch7 meter.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with this kind of setup? Any suggestions
>> are welcome.
>> Thanks
>> John Richoux
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Keep on Patchin'!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>> Serge
>> Analog synthesizer
>> Sampler
>> Frequency synthesizer
>> Guitar synthesizer
>> Moog synthesizer
>>
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>> ? Visit your group "SergeModular" on the web.
>>
>> ? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> SergeModular-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> ? Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service.
>>
>>
>

Re: Triggers from Analog Tape?

2005-08-03 by Peter Grenader

Peter Grenader wrote:

> ned cycle pulse output.

My good friend Ned just reminded me he is not equipped to handle this...i
meant to say END pulse output.

Re: Triggers from Analog Tape?

2005-08-03 by johnrichoux

Wow- what a response - I am impressed. There are a lot of good ideas here to explore (Esp.
the Subotnick article) But at least I've got it basically working now. The envelope follower is
the key. Here's what I did:

Recording the control track: DTG gate out straight to tape.

Playing the control track: Tape output to Detector input; Envelope output to another DTG
trigger in, DTG gate out to sequencer clock. (The 2nd DTG cleans up the signal; otherwise
the seq jumps all over the place).

Thanks again to everyone who responded!

John Richoux

Re: Triggers from Analog Tape?

2005-08-03 by Peter Grenader

One more (possibly) helpful hint:

Syncing to your sync - If you record a track of your main voice
simultaneously to laying down the first control track (what I mean is you
use whatever is driving your sequencer to also pace the signal being
recorded to tap for further syncing) - you may be in for problems. That
first voice which was driven by the actual clock may not sync with
subsequent ones driven from the taped control tracks.

The fix: if you're going to use analog control tracks - clock all the
voices from that control track. This way, any slight delays or on-time
variances caused by the patch processing are taken into account for all
voices and in effect, those variances are eradicated.

Words of experience here. When bored beyond belief, have listen to a piece
called "Eclipse', which can be found on my second Music Samples page on
buzzclick-music.com. That was all driven (and synced) by control tracks