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how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-17 by cray5656

hi all

I have never seen a Buchla in the flesh and am liking the Buchla name
on the Cynthia Low Pass Gate...but as I am still a noobie to Serge, is
it a waste of time pursuing the Cynthia LPG if the Serge can give the
same result, and if so how?

I really love the stuff Morton SUbotnick did on Wild Bull etc and this
is why the Cynthia LPG is appealing to me.....

From using the Serge todate (3 months), I love the mouth like sound
quality of the Variable Q VCF, I also love the Wilson Analog Delay,
though I find it quite hissy...I am in he process of getting a cabinet
made up so it will look like a big VCS3 style cabinet with 4 Serges

My dream would be to add a Dual ADSR, Spring Reverb, SYnthacon
Filter,Twin Wasp Filer, and he Buchla LPG

Re: how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-17 by buchla300

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "cray5656" <amni56@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> hi all
>
> I have never seen a Buchla in the flesh and am liking the Buchla name
> on the Cynthia Low Pass Gate...but as I am still a noobie to Serge, is
> it a waste of time pursuing the Cynthia LPG if the Serge can give the
> same result, and if so how?
>
> I really love the stuff Morton SUbotnick did on Wild Bull etc and this
> is why the Cynthia LPG is appealing to me.....
>
> From using the Serge todate (3 months), I love the mouth like sound
> quality of the Variable Q VCF, I also love the Wilson Analog Delay,
> though I find it quite hissy...I am in he process of getting a cabinet
> made up so it will look like a big VCS3 style cabinet with 4 Serges
>
> My dream would be to add a Dual ADSR, Spring Reverb, SYnthacon
> Filter,Twin Wasp Filer, and he Buchla LPG
>

I have a system 200 Buchla and a 6 panel serge and they are very
different. I use the Serge much more but love the Buchla to death.
The Buchla has a very "funky" and rich sound. I think the vactrols
make a big difference there. I can't give you too many technical
details alas (as I don't know!). Serge is more flexible.
I find the serge more accurate and the Buchla more abstract if that
makes sense. Both are wonderful, but for me the buchla is my baby :)

Re: how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-17 by John Loffink

Much of the characteristic sound of the Buchla is due to the Low Pass Gates.
Adding some LPGs to your system will go a long ways towards recreating the
Buchla sound. Since Serge does not have vactrol based filters/VCAs,
currently available options include the following:

Banana jack
Cyndustries Quad Low Pass Gate - Modcan A format

1/8 inch jack
Buchla 292e Quad Dynamics Manager - expensive
Doepfer A-101-9 Dual Universal Vactrol - lacks switch for Gate or
Gate+Filter selection
Doepfer A-101-2 LPG - single vactrol gate
Plan B Dual Timbral Gates (order from Analog Haven)
Wiard 1213B Borg Filter - lacks switch for Gate or Gate+Filter selection
Wiard 1212B Boogie Filter - 4 pole configuration, lacks switch

A secondary contributor to the Buchla sound may be triangle core VCOs.
There are three 1/8 inch format and one banana format version available:

Cyndustries Zero Oscillator (Modcan A, Frac or Euro format)
Plan B Model 15 Complex VCO (order from Analog Haven)

Control Voltage and modulation capabilities between Buchla and Serge are
"comparable," though not identical. I believe your Serge system will be more
than capable of achieving that Subotnick sound from the control standpoint.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of cray5656
>
> hi all
>
> I have never seen a Buchla in the flesh and am liking the Buchla name
> on the Cynthia Low Pass Gate...but as I am still a noobie to Serge, is
> it a waste of time pursuing the Cynthia LPG if the Serge can give the
> same result, and if so how?
>
> I really love the stuff Morton SUbotnick did on Wild Bull etc and this
> is why the Cynthia LPG is appealing to me.....
>
> From using the Serge todate (3 months), I love the mouth like sound
> quality of the Variable Q VCF, I also love the Wilson Analog Delay,
> though I find it quite hissy...I am in he process of getting a cabinet
> made up so it will look like a big VCS3 style cabinet with 4 Serges
>
> My dream would be to add a Dual ADSR, Spring Reverb, SYnthacon
> Filter,Twin Wasp Filer, and he Buchla LPG
>
>

Re: how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-17 by cray5656

Hi John

Wow thanks so much :-)

Say if I bought a
Plan B Dual Timbral Gates
Plan B Model 15 Complex VCO

how do i get i to integrate into my Blue Fun Station?

Is there a way to build a Buchla clone in one set format?

You have got me very excited!

Cheers
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, "John Loffink" <jloffink@...> wrote:
>
> Much of the characteristic sound of the Buchla is due to the Low
Pass Gates.
> Adding some LPGs to your system will go a long ways towards
recreating the
> Buchla sound. Since Serge does not have vactrol based filters/VCAs,
> currently available options include the following:
>
> Banana jack
> Cyndustries Quad Low Pass Gate - Modcan A format
>
> 1/8 inch jack
> Buchla 292e Quad Dynamics Manager - expensive
> Doepfer A-101-9 Dual Universal Vactrol - lacks switch for Gate or
> Gate+Filter selection
> Doepfer A-101-2 LPG - single vactrol gate
> Plan B Dual Timbral Gates (order from Analog Haven)
> Wiard 1213B Borg Filter - lacks switch for Gate or Gate+Filter selection
> Wiard 1212B Boogie Filter - 4 pole configuration, lacks switch
>
> A secondary contributor to the Buchla sound may be triangle core VCOs.
> There are three 1/8 inch format and one banana format version available:
>
> Cyndustries Zero Oscillator (Modcan A, Frac or Euro format)
> Plan B Model 15 Complex VCO (order from Analog Haven)
>
> Control Voltage and modulation capabilities between Buchla and Serge are
> "comparable," though not identical. I believe your Serge system will
be more
> than capable of achieving that Subotnick sound from the control
standpoint.
>
> John Loffink
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of cray5656
> >
> > hi all
> >
> > I have never seen a Buchla in the flesh and am liking the Buchla name
> > on the Cynthia Low Pass Gate...but as I am still a noobie to Serge, is
> > it a waste of time pursuing the Cynthia LPG if the Serge can give the
> > same result, and if so how?
> >
> > I really love the stuff Morton SUbotnick did on Wild Bull etc and this
> > is why the Cynthia LPG is appealing to me.....
> >
> > From using the Serge todate (3 months), I love the mouth like sound
> > quality of the Variable Q VCF, I also love the Wilson Analog Delay,
> > though I find it quite hissy...I am in he process of getting a cabinet
> > made up so it will look like a big VCS3 style cabinet with 4 Serges
> >
> > My dream would be to add a Dual ADSR, Spring Reverb, SYnthacon
> > Filter,Twin Wasp Filer, and he Buchla LPG
> >
> >
>

Re: how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-18 by cuari7

Two different beasts.

Lately I've been mixing sine waves from the quadrature oscillator from
the Serge FS with sine waves produced by making the variable bandwidth
filter resonate, and I get all sorts of rich, woody marimbas a' la
Buchla. A lot of the sounds that the Buchla 261e make can be obtained
from the Serge Wave Multiplier.
Overall, I think the Serge is warmer, and the Buchla is harsher and
more rude.
I have a Zeroscillator coming from Cynthia, which I'm planning to feed
into the LPG.......

Re: how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-18 by John Loffink

There's no one stop shop to build a Buchla clone, short of buying the Buchla
200e.

To integrate Plan B into your Serge, you'll need adapter cables or an
adapter panel for bananas to one eight inch.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of cray5656
>
> Hi John
>
> Wow thanks so much :-)
>
> Say if I bought a
> Plan B Dual Timbral Gates
> Plan B Model 15 Complex VCO
>
> how do i get i to integrate into my Blue Fun Station?
>
> Is there a way to build a Buchla clone in one set format?
>
> You have got me very excited!
>
> Cheers
>

Re: how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-18 by Tim J

Agreed. No one stop shop.

That said... the vcos and timbre gates rock. They really have that
Buchla type sound (and I've had a chance to compare recently). Ya, I'm a
bit biased...I liked them so much I now work at Plan B :-) The little bit
of effort you put into integrating the Plan B modules with your Serge will
pay off. I have an animal and another modulation panel and I love using
them with my Plan B stuff.

Tim
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>There's no one stop shop to build a Buchla clone, short of buying the
>Buchla
>200e.
>
>To integrate Plan B into your Serge, you'll need adapter cables or an
>adapter panel for bananas to one eight inch.
>
> > Say if I bought a
> > Plan B Dual Timbral Gates
> > Plan B Model 15 Complex VCO
> >
> > how do i get i to integrate into my Blue Fun Station?
> >
> > Is there a way to build a Buchla clone in one set format?
> >
> > You have got me very excited!
> >
> > Cheers
> >
>

Re: how close is the serge to the buchla soundwise?

2006-06-18 by Rick

> I really love the stuff Morton SUbotnick did on Wild Bull etc and this
> is why the Cynthia LPG is appealing to me.....

Wild bull was composed on Buchla 100.. the 100 is both sonically and
functionally different then the 200.. no Vactrols, (no Lopass gates
infact)... Many of us into buchlas love the raw sound of the 100s but
the 200 offers much more Voltage Control. Electronically, the 100 is
considered to be more reliable then the 200, this has a lot to do with
simpler circuitry and less ICs which are becoming more difficult to
source everyday.

basically what i am saying is if you are after the Wild Bull type
sound, the new buchla clones and 200e arent really gunna get you that.

also Buchlas are capable of much more sonically then just the plucked
type sounds you often hear from them when people are demoing the Lopass
Gates... I like those sounds but I feel that people think thats the
best they can do, which is very far from the truth

-r

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